To break out or not?

[Sal]

Curious as to what forum members think about the $$ pros and cons of breaking out say a PF69 coin from a holder if you were looking to maximize the selling value of the coin? Also, as far as resubmitting say a PF69 in hopes to get a PF70 does it make $$ sense? Not talking about a inexpensive coin. Say a coin valued at $500 and up. Thanks 

[shortstack68]

4 minutes ago, Sal said:

Curious as to what forum members think about the $$ pros and cons of breaking out say a PF69 coin from a holder if you were looking to maximize the selling value of the coin? Also, as far as resubmitting say a PF69 in hopes to get a PF70 does it make $$ sense? Not talking about a inexpensive coin. Say a coin valued at $500 and up. Thanks 

If you keep adding expense on top of the coin then you might eventually break even

[Sal]

Just now, shortstack68 said:

If you keep adding expense on top of the coin then you might eventually break even

Who taught you math? Go back to elementary school.

[shortstack68]

@Sal what happens if you do break it out and submit again and comes back the same grade, that will be 2x submissions, just being realistic, each time you submit it takes a little more value off of what you have in it..........At the end of the day, it's your coin, and just my opinion.

 

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Added 0 minutes later...

1 minute ago, Sal said:

Who taught you math? Go back to elementary school.

What's the cheeky post for? Did you get it graded, if you break it out will a re-submission be free of charge, if it doesn't get the 70 you are looking for will you break it out again and again......Yeah, there's where all the potential profit goes, drains back out as you send for grading, so i don't understand you're childish reaction and response

[Sal]

Just now, shortstack68 said:

@Sal what happens if you do break it out and submit again and comes back the same grade, that will be 2x submissions, just being realistic, each time you submit it takes a little more value off of what you have in it..........At the end of the day, it's your coin, and just my opinion.

Fair enough but when you are talking about a coin of some value the risk/reward becomes attractive depending on the disparity between the price of a 69 and a 70. Probably a coin by coin decision. Doesn't resubmitting a coin to the same company kinda diminish the credibility of the grading company if the coin comes back a higher grade? In my eyes it does. 

[shortstack68]

Just now, Sal said:

Fair enough but when you are talking about a coin of some value the risk/reward becomes attractive depending on the disparity between the price of a 69 and a 70. Probably a coin by coin decision. Doesn't resubmitting a coin to the same company kinda diminish the credibility of the grading company if the coin comes back a higher grade? In my eyes it does. 

Sal, i've no idea what your coin is, so i can't comment on its value or resale value

[Sal]

1 minute ago, shortstack68 said:

Sal, i've no idea what your coin is, so i can't comment on its value or resale value

But wasn't your first statement pretty much saying it a net loss proposition in the long run to resubmit coins?

[shortstack68]

4 minutes ago, Sal said:

But wasn't your first statement pretty much saying it a net loss proposition in the long run to resubmit coins?

You have to think of what you're adding onto the coin every time you submit, if each attempt doesn't get the grade you want then it's more money you've put into the coin that eats up a potential profit or break even, i'm not talking specific coins, i'm talking about how much money you are adding on top

[Sal]

1 minute ago, shortstack68 said:

You have to think of what you're adding onto the coin every time you submit, if each attemptedmpt doesn't get the grade you want then it's more money you've put into the coin that eats up a potential profit or break even, i'm not talking specific coins, i'm talking about how much money you are adding on top

I can do simple math thanks. Accounting major in college. 

[shortstack68]

7 minutes ago, Sal said:

I can do simple math thanks. Accounting major in college. 

Then don't ask, and i'll quote you

"Curious as to what forum members think about the $$ pros and cons of breaking out say a PF69 coin from a holder if you were looking to maximize the selling value" 

You are asking $$ pros and cons which is basic maths right? I mean, i can count what a submission costs, isn't that $$ pro and con?

 

[ManWithNoName]

2 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

Then don't ask, and i'll quote you

"Curious as to what forum members think about the $$ pros and cons of breaking out say a PF69 coin from a holder if you were looking to maximize the selling value" 

You are asking $$ pros and cons which is basic maths right? I mean, i can count what a submission costs, isn't that $$ pro and con?

 

I was just thinking the same.. WTF!

[Seasider]

Just curious - how do you break a coin out of a slab?  Do you risk damaging it?

Personally I have enough trouble opening a normal capsule.

[Seasider]

6 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

Then don't ask, and i'll quote you

"Curious as to what forum members think about the $$ pros and cons of breaking out say a PF69 coin from a holder if you were looking to maximize the selling value" 

You are asking $$ pros and cons which is basic maths right? I mean, i can count what a submission costs, isn't that $$ pro and con?

 

I thought that question was more about whether a raw coin is worth more than a PF69.  I would have assumed the answer was no unless you regard the coin as undergraded in which case you break it out and try to sell it someone who agrees with you.

I can't imagine you will get a better grade if you send it to another grading company (and aren't PCGS tougher than NGC?) - and surely no-one would send it back the same company for a second go?  Of course I suppose you could ask them to conserve it and then regrade it.

[KevinFlynn]

23 minutes ago, Sal said:

I can do simple math thanks. Accounting major in college. 

Sounds like you want to break it out and you want that answer only...

How much do PF70 gradings yield over PF69 gradings?

[shortstack68]

12 minutes ago, Seasider said:

Just curious - how do you break a coin out of a slab?  Do you risk damaging it?

Personally I have enough trouble opening a normal capsule.

Use a hacksaw and vice, saw around the edges of the slab and it should just come apart

[Seasider]

1 minute ago, shortstack68 said:

Use a hacksaw and vice, saw around the edges of the slab and it should just come apart

I had pictures of a hammer and chisel in my mind.

[Sal]

1 hour ago, ManWithNoName said:

I was just thinking the same.. WTF!

The pro and cons are not limited to the submission costs. The potential increase in the value of say a PF70 vs. a PF69 can be substantial. Correct?

 

1 hour ago, KevinFlynn said:

Sounds like you want to break it out and you want that answer only...

How much do PF70 gradings yield over PF69 gradings?

Every coin probably a a different percentage increase in value. Certain coins I guess could be as low as 10% increase in value to who knows how much. 50% maybe. For example you send in a PF69 and it gets regraded up to a PF70. The value goes up say 20% or say $200. Submission costs are what? $30-$40 with shipping. That is a pretty good risk/reward scenario. Why would be key to know what percentage on coins that get regraded in that particular coin. Also, are you better off to re submit the coin the the original slab or break it out and submit it raw.

[ManWithNoName]

6 minutes ago, Sal said:

The pro and cons are not limited to the submission costs. The potential increase in the value of say a PF70 vs. a PF69 can be substantial. Correct?

 

Every coin probably a a different percentage increase in value. Certain coins I guess could be as low as 10% increase in value to who knows how much. 50% maybe. For example you send in a PF69 and it gets regraded up to a PF70. The value goes up say 20% or say $200. Submission costs are what? $30-$40 with shipping. That is a pretty good risk/reward scenario. Why would be key to know what percentage on coins that get regraded in that particular coin. Also, are you better off to re submit the coin the the original slab or break it out and submit it 

I'm sure your right, i just thought you reacted arrogant to someone trying to answer your question. Hope you get your answer.

[Bullionbilly]

What coin is it ? That may help.

[Xander]

2 hours ago, Sal said:

Curious as to what forum members think about the $$ pros and cons of breaking out say a PF69 coin from a holder if you were looking to maximize the selling value of the coin? Also, as far as resubmitting say a PF69 in hopes to get a PF70 does it make $$ sense? Not talking about a inexpensive coin. Say a coin valued at $500 and up. Thanks 

I have seen one of Numistackes video's where he sent a slabbed coin to NCS, had it removed then re-graded in the hope of a higher grade. I suppose it's a gamble.

[mr1030]

I would think it wouldn't be an economical option unless you have some extensive experience in grading yourself that makes you believe the coin was under graded in the first place.  The way your op read, it looks like you are just looking for a hail mary in the hopes that the coin will come back a 70.  That doesn't sound like a good odds proposition.

[sovereignsteve]

I think it would be worthwhile, on average, to submit a PCGS PF69 to NGC with a reasonable chance of getting back a PF70. The only rider I would put on that, is if you can clearly see a mark on the coin then you are unlikely to achieve your goal.

[Sal]

11 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

I think it would be worthwhile, on average, to submit a PCGS PF69 to NGC with a reasonable chance of getting back a PF70. The only rider I would put on that, is if you can clearly see a mark on the coin then you are unlikely to achieve your goal.

Do you happen to know what NGC means by "Pre Screening" in their description of services. Only available for dealers and elite collectors society members. Could it mean that these individuals could send a coin in to be graded and if it doesn't meet the requested grade it would be sent back to the individual? I find it very odd that if you go on NGC or PCGS population reports and check the new 2018 Libertad reverse proof there are no PF69's recorded as being graded in either the 1/2 or 1 ounce coin. Could the grading companies be sending the PF69 coins back to these individuals un slabbed and being sold to uninformed retail buyers? 

[sovereignsteve]

I think it is exactly that. Companies send in large numbers of coins and ask for only certain grades. Presumably they are pre-screened and the tatt sent back or slabbed as Gem BU etc if that's acceptable to the dealers. I don't know for sure, maybe @Numistacker might know better.