What is the other 50% of UK silver coins made of?

[BackyardBullion]

I have had an enquiry from a customer to melt down some of his old 50% silver UK coinage. 

Now, I understand it is legal to melt them down (unless I am mistaken!) but I am finding it hard to discover what the other 50% of these coins were made of.

I don't want to melt them if they have some weird metals in them, but if they are just 50% silver 50% copper then I will give it a go. 

Anyone know and/or melted 50% silver coins before?

[Thesilverguy]

No. It is illegal to melt or break up coins in the UK. According to the UK Coinage Act 1971, one cannot melt or break any metal coin which is, or has been, current in the United Kingdom after 16th May 1969 (on that day, Parliament approved the Decimal Currency Act). So you cannot melt your pennies in the UK. Else you risk a £400 fine and/or two years imprisonment. The UK Coinage Act 1971 only applies to British coins. Therefore, it is not illegal to melt foreign coins in the UK. In addition, the Coinage Act does not apply outside the UK. One could bring his/her British coins to France and melt them there. In France, it is legal to melt any coins, foreign or domestic. The law that prohibited melting coins in France (Article 439 Code pénal) was repealed in 1992.

[BackyardBullion]

Just now, Thesilverguy said:

No. It is illegal to melt or break up coins in the UK. According to the UK Coinage Act 1971, one cannot melt or break any metal coin which is, or has been, current in the United Kingdom after 16th May 1969 (on that day, Parliament approved the Decimal Currency Act).

I interpreted that as any coin that was made after 16th May 1969. I.e. current coinage. 

[Thesilverguy]

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/24

[BackyardBullion]

@Thesilverguy Thanks - The wording from the 1971 coinage act is different and I interpret to mean you cannot melt them down. 

To my reading that article from https://www.leftovercurrency.com/is-it-legal-to-melt-coins/ is not worded very well. 

Well, that solves my problem and I won't melt them.

But what is the other 50% out of curiosity!

[Thesilverguy]

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/silver-content-of-british-coins/305

[BackyardBullion]

1 minute ago, Thesilverguy said:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/silver-content-of-british-coins/305

Thanks fella, not that it matters any more! 

Maybe next time I go on holiday to Italy I can bring the furnace and some 50% silver coins!

[Thesilverguy]

That will be an interesting youtube video  😀

[ilovesilverireallydo]

13 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

@Thesilverguy Thanks - The wording from the 1971 coinage act is different and I interpret to mean you cannot melt them down. 

To my reading that article from https://www.leftovercurrency.com/is-it-legal-to-melt-coins/ is not worded very well. 

Well, that solves my problem and I won't melt them.

But what is the other 50% out of curiosity!

I think you there is confusion here.

It’s legal to melt those coins, they are pre-decimalisation and not legal tender anymore.

I deal with a number of bullion shops who melt these by the hordes, and they do their due diligence. That legislation that was linked to is specifically for decimalised currency. The only exception is double Florins which still have a legal value of 20p, as they missed out demonetising them in the initial list. 

Interestingly it is actually illegal to melt sovereigns as they have a legal value. 

[Martlet]

Just now, ilovesilverireallydo said:

Interestingly it is actually illegal to melt sovereigns as they have a legal value. 

And i expect, Britannias.

[ilovesilverireallydo]

3 minutes ago, Martlet said:

And i expect, Britannias.

Yes especially as they are post decimalisation. 

[bored]

Yeah but no but yeah but who`s going to find out? unless you make a vid about it or the popo contact you and ask you to do it

[Seasider]

1 hour ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

The only exception is double Florins which still have a legal value of 20p, as they missed out demonetising them in the initial list

What about coins like the ordinary florin which according to numista was only demonetised in the 1990s - so well after 1969.

[OlliesSilverBars]

Melted loads down in the past. They make fairly ugly bars due to the really high copper content. The copper in the alloy absorbs oxygen and hydrogen from the atmosphere, then when you pour the bar and the metal cools. It releases these gas'es and you get tiny bubbles on the surface of the bar. I'd recommend pour it in a reducing environment, or spray some 3-1 oil in the mould first. 

With regards to legality, it's perfectly fine.

I found .500 bars harder to stamp than sterling bars. 

Looking forward to the video 

[BackyardBullion]

13 minutes ago, OlliesSilverBars said:

Melted loads down in the past. They make fairly ugly bars due to the really high copper content. The copper in the alloy absorbs oxygen and hydrogen from the atmosphere, then when you pour the bar and the metal cools. It releases these gas'es and you get tiny bubbles on the surface of the bar. I'd recommend pour it in a reducing environment, or spray some 3-1 oil in the mould first. 

With regards to legality, it's perfectly fine.

I found .500 bars harder to stamp than sterling bars. 

Looking forward to the video 

I'm not sure I want to try it, sterling bars have turned out pretty ugly to be honest, and I don't want to charge someone for my time only to end up with a horrible looking bar!

What is the melting point of 50% silver do you know?

[Big23]

How would it be possible to separate molten silver and copper?

[NikolaAnne]

13 minutes ago, Big23 said:

How would it be possible to separate molten silver and copper?

You wouldn't do it in molten state - you chop it fine/melt it and turn it into shot and use acid and chemicals to "sort" it, then deal with the solutions to extract solid metal

 

[Big23]

35 minutes ago, NikolaAnne said:

You wouldn't do it in molten state - you chop it fine/melt it and turn it into shot and use acid and chemicals to "sort" it, then deal with the solutions to extract solid metal

 

OMG

[OlliesSilverBars]

2 hours ago, BackyardBullion said:

I'm not sure I want to try it, sterling bars have turned out pretty ugly to be honest, and I don't want to charge someone for my time only to end up with a horrible looking bar!

What is the melting point of 50% silver do you know?

780 Degrees Celcius, pop the bar in some pickle afterwards and that takes alot of the copper oxides off

[BackyardBullion]

Just now, OlliesSilverBars said:

780 Degrees Celcius, pop the bar in some pickle afterwards and that takes alot of the copper oxides off

Goodness, significantly less than 999 or sterling then

[KevinFlynn]

[...] In 1920, the silver content of all British coins was reduced from 92.5% to 50%, with some of the remainder consisting of manganese, [...]

Wikipedia

 

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

5 hours ago, NikolaAnne said:

You wouldn't do it in molten state - you chop it fine/melt it and turn it into shot and use acid and chemicals to "sort" it, then deal with the solutions to extract solid metal

 

Loved watching this and have to say that I find anything along these lines to be incredibly fascinating. I really wish a professional individual or company would make a similar video showing how they do these things. I'd love Umicore for example to show how they process old electronics in to pure metals though I suppose they probably have proprietary methods they don't care to share. All this makes me wish I paid more attention when i was younger in chemistry class.

[NikolaAnne]

9 minutes ago, AppleZippoandMetronome said:

Loved watching this and have to say that I find anything along these lines to be incredibly fascinating. I really wish a professional individual or company would make a similar video showing how they do these things. I'd love Umicore for example to show how they process old electronics in to pure metals though I suppose they probably have proprietary methods they don't care to share. All this makes me wish I paid more attention when i was younger in chemistry class.

Cody's Lab has all sorts of fun in this ilk - and I can confirm that YouTube is full of metal refining from Circuit boards... having watched a far fwe of them, from teh fascination POV 🙂

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

1 minute ago, NikolaAnne said:

Cody's Lab has all sorts of fun in this ilk - and I can confirm that YouTube is full of metal refining from Circuit boards... having watched a far fwe of them, from teh fascination POV 🙂

Yeah Cody's Lab I really should check out - I shall make a note of it now. There is another YouTube channel I follow - How to make everything - and Cody's Lab helped the fella from that channel refine down silver ore he collected which I again found very fascinating to watch. I shall have to go down that rabbit hole and watch as many vids on this subject as possible. I do find it all really fascinating.

[NikolaAnne]

1 minute ago, AppleZippoandMetronome said:

Yeah Cody's Lab I really should check out - I shall make a note of it now. There is another YouTube channel I follow - How to make everything - and Cody's Lab helped the fella from that channel refine down silver ore he collected which I again found very fascinating to watch. I shall have to go down that rabbit hole and watch as many vids on this subject as possible. I do find it all really fascinating.

 How to Make everything is a fun channel, I also like The King of Random. Cody's making a Gold Foil Ball, leaning how to cold work gold powder into gold foil and also getting a sizable pure gold bar from a heap of "junk" gold is fun as well.

I'm also strangely into Wood Turning Videos for reasons I've not figured out (Nick Zametti, Peter Brown) and Alec Steele, Blacksmith. 🙂 I suspect it's simply because I like watching "craft work".