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Pete

Griffin Higher Priced than the Lion

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Just browsing GS.be this morning I came across the gold Beasts and was surprised to see that the Griffin was higher priced than the Lion.
Perhaps pricing is set by demand or stock levels, e.g. low stock means marginally increased prices if demand continues.
Anyone know why this should be ?

1847486412_Screenshot2019-01-31at10_56_24.thumb.png.63eb94894bc7134549e40399877027fb.png

 

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29 minutes ago, Pete said:

Just browsing GS.be this morning I came across the gold Beasts and was surprised to see that the Griffin was higher priced than the Lion.
Perhaps pricing is set by demand or stock levels, e.g. low stock means marginally increased prices if demand continues.
Anyone know why this should be ?

1847486412_Screenshot2019-01-31at10_56_24.thumb.png.63eb94894bc7134549e40399877027fb.png

 

More than likely dealer greed, its a bullion coin after all.....

 

Edited by shortstack68

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9 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

More than likely dealer greed, its a bullion coin after all.....

 

"Opportunistic" sounds much better than "greed" 😀😀
Seriously though - is there a solid reason based on mintage, demand to build the date run ????
Maybe Brexit if the BBC ever made a documentary about British gold coins

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1 minute ago, Pete said:

"Opportunistic" sounds much better than "greed" 😀😀
Seriously though - is there a solid reason based on mintage, demand to build the date run ????
Maybe Brexit if the BBC ever made a documentary about British gold coins

Brexit is a possibility. I looked at a holiday rental last year which i could have got for €700 for 1 week, this year, the same place has doubled in price, so it could well be the brexit effect

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3 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

I didn't look at the GS.be website, just eBay and other sources

I've got surplus silver Griffins so would it be a good time to sell ?
If the Griffin is currently higher priced than the Lion then that points to yes but silver is so low at the moment I wonder if it makes more sense to wait, hoping for a baseline recovery ?
Decisions .. decisions

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Mintage and more moving parts so to speak re the griffin vs the lion, so harder to get in quality....? Plus, as we get nearer to completion, dealers and the increasing price of bullion will, of course ramp up the prices....

Edited by Oldun

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1 minute ago, Pete said:

I've got surplus silver Griffins so would it be a good time to sell ?
If the Griffin is currently higher priced than the Lion then that points to yes but silver is so low at the moment I wonder if it makes more sense to wait, hoping for a baseline recovery ?
Decisions .. decisions

Real questions will the next four Queens Beasts designs be as popular as there previous designs. I think if the Royal Mint continues with excellent designs (I know few people stop collecting QB's series after the Falcon released) then the series will continue gain popularity and the backdated coins will continue to rise in premium. Next four QB's design just average or below average then interest in the series will subside and existing premiums will likely to fall.

So question asking @Pete do you trust the Royal Mint?

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6 minutes ago, Pete said:

I've got surplus silver Griffins so would it be a good time to sell ?
If the Griffin is currently higher priced than the Lion then that points to yes but silver is so low at the moment I wonder if it makes more sense to wait, hoping for a baseline recovery ?
Decisions .. decisions

Good question. Depends whether you think the Griffin over Lion premium will widen. I would say not as GS.be would have latched on to it by now.

If you expect silver spot to increase substantially, maybe the correct approach is sell  your "semi num" Griffins for current profit and buy cheap bullion?

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28 minutes ago, Abyss said:

Real questions will the next four Queens Beasts designs be as popular as there previous designs. I think if the Royal Mint continues with excellent designs (I know few people stop collecting QB's series after the Falcon released) then the series will continue gain popularity and the backdated coins will continue to rise in premium. Next four QB's design just average or below average then interest in the series will subside and existing premiums will likely to fall.

So question asking @Pete do you trust the Royal Mint?

People get bored, the first few designs were good, then came the unicorn and falcon and it went to 💩, their popularity came from the designs with people thinking each design was going to be as good as the last, which unfortunately wasn’t the case

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As posted above by jultorsk (and then subsequently ignore by everyone else?) the clue is in the mintages.

There are nearly twice as many Gold 1oz Lions out there as Griffins, Dragons, and probably of the subsequent coins too.

In silver 2oz it's more like 30 to 40% more Lions vs Griffins or Dragons but that still makes it a far more common coin.

For anyone looking to put together a complete set of either gold or silver the Lions are going to be the most readily available. Supply vs demand means there's no reason the common-all-garden Lions should retain a higher premium in the long run.

I can't really comment on how many coins have been minted after the Dragon as we don't have the completed figures although partial sales looked similar to the Griffin and Dragon.

@jultorsk

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In terms of designs it's not clear how much that has affected demand/sales.

Personally I like the lion, but I like the griffin and dragon even more as coins, and the falcon is not far behind (particularly seen in person). I'm less keen on the unicorn but it's not bad looking. The bull is the only one I really don't much like and would only buy to complete a set. I would also note that the upcoming Yale is going to be a serious challenge for the designers...

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1 hour ago, FoolzGold said:

As posted above by jultorsk (and then subsequently ignore by everyone else?) the clue is in the mintages.

There are nearly twice as many Gold 1oz Lions out there as Griffins, Dragons, and probably of the subsequent coins too.

In silver 2oz it's more like 30 to 40% more Lions vs Griffins or Dragons but that still makes it a far more common coin.

For anyone looking to put together a complete set of either gold or silver the Lions are going to be the most readily available. Supply vs demand means there's no reason the common-all-garden Lions should retain a higher premium in the long run.

I can't really comment on how many coins have been minted after the Dragon as we don't have the completed figures although partial sales looked similar to the Griffin and Dragon.

@jultorsk

Ahhhhh i see

Edited by shortstack68

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By no means of the imagination should anyone think that these coins are rare. They are a billion coin that should carry a slight premium because of the collectability of the series. Once the series is over and the final mintages are out for all the coins - in my opinion we will find that the later coins in the series will have lower mintages than the lion and griffin.

Also remember that at the time of release of the lion, it was the start of the 2 ounce silver coin phase. With more and more 2 ounce coins flooding the market - we will see how the pricing all pans out.

 

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It would certainly be interesting to see how the later sales hold up against the earlier versions. I'm sure there's some fatigue that sets in as some buyers lose interest over such a long series. However, I also think there are quite a few new collectors that have discovered this series part way through its 5 year run and who will be readily buying the later issues but struggling to back-fill the older versions.

In terms of rarity these are clearly bullion coins but they do have a semi-numismatic appeal. The Kookaburra is a bullion coin but despite being minted in 500,000 examples and being an unlimited run (over the years) they're still considered to have some numismatic value.

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33 minutes ago, FoolzGold said:

It would certainly be interesting to see how the later sales hold up against the earlier versions. I'm sure there's some fatigue that sets in as some buyers lose interest over such a long series. However, I also think there are quite a few new collectors that have discovered this series part way through its 5 year run and who will be readily buying the later issues but struggling to back-fill the older versions.

In terms of rarity these are clearly bullion coins but they do have a semi-numismatic appeal. The Kookaburra is a bullion coin but despite being minted in 500,000 examples and being an unlimited run (over the years) they're still considered to have some numismatic value.

Not everyone buys 1oz gold, not everyone has that sort of money to buy into the beginning, stackers won't pay the premium for a start, so it has to come from people who buy semi numismatic as numismatists wouldn't buy modern day "tat" either as it's called on the other side of coin collecting. I still believe its a brexit push by European dealers as this coin is only third in popularity in the list and my personal choice is Dragon and Lion, i wasn't a fan of the Griffin, it's was ok.....

Edited by shortstack68

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Funny I've always thought the Griffin was the best looking of the series. Certainly in Gold.

The Bull is by far the worst.

I have all of the series so far, thinking of taking profits for now on the first 3 and buy straight up bullion.

Probably Soveriegns, its easier for the kids to sell them in the future

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