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How to spot a fake sovereign.


jazzman

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Good news. The coin has been looked at by two of the most established numismatic coin dealers in the UK and both agree that the coin is genuine. It has just been used and perhaps worn in jewellery and that is the reason for its condition.

 

He offered that I could buy it again at a discounted price, I declined. 

 

 

 

I would like to know who these "established numismatic coin dealers" are, so as I can remember never to buy from them on the future.

 

These lebanese fakes have been sold as genuine by some of the biggest auction houses and coin dealers in the UK over the years. It has fooled "experts" in the past and will fool people in the future. I would have declined the offer as well. Question is why are the offering a discounted price. If I was buying a coin like that for a price like that I want it absolutely 100% genuine looking

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  • 2 weeks later...

Maybe also tell us fellow stackers the specifics of why your coin is a fake for educational purposes.

 

Sorry - haven't forgotten about this thread, just in the middle of packing for a house move, time is a rare commodity....

 

I have a dodgy 1919 full sovereign. Front and back below. Apologies for the bad pictures, my tripod has been packed away so these are hand held and I just can't get the photos are sharp as I would like. Low light sensor noise has also made the surface look worse than it is too. The rim is not as skewed on the coin as the photo suggests either, this has been exacerbated by the shoddy camera angle and lighting.

 

post-320-0-75068600-1416183601_thumb.jpg

 

post-320-0-02385200-1416183647_thumb.jpg

 

First obvious clue it's a fake? It has no mint mark. The 1919 sov was minted in Melbourne, Perth, Sydney and Canada (Ottawa). This one should display M, P, S or C but doesn't.

 

post-320-0-08145800-1416183920_thumb.jpg

 

Weight is 7.9 grams. This is where a scale capable of showing 100ths not 10ths of a gram would be good. With the decimal point rounding my coin weighs between 7.85 and 7.94g. The scale has been calibrated in a lab by an acquaintance so I know it is accurate.

 

post-320-0-57732900-1416184258_thumb.jpg

 

check out the diameter. Just fractionally too wide to fit through the Coin ID card, this is less than a millimeter out.

 

post-320-0-35306700-1416184391_thumb.jpg

 

post-320-0-48433500-1416184406_thumb.jpg

 

It does pass the width test though. It easily fits in the slot in the Coin ID card

 

post-320-0-88252700-1416184473_thumb.jpg

 

A 9ct sov of the correct dimensions weights 7g. Given this is heavier, has the right width but is slightly too large in its diameter I hope it is at least 18ct. I've never had it checked though. Colour wise it does seem slighty more yellow than a 1901 sov I own (the closest other one I have to the same purported age as this).

 

Cheers!

Barns

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The fact that there is no mint mark is as you state a give away - unless it has worn away ?

You need to measure your diameter more precisely as 1mm difference is huge.

The weight and thickness appear in spec so diameter becomes quite important.

Over sized is also suggesting a cloned coin but more that likely 18ct gold so possibly a jewellers copy.

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Ok, so here is a conundrum. Got an 1890 Queen Vic Jubilee Head Sydney Mint Sovereign today. It looks totally fine, a bit worn, but nothing out of the ordinary, it certainly isn't cast. 

 

It weighs 7.94 g instead of 7.99g, so a bit on the light side. But certainly not low enough to be an obvious fake. It's thickness is 1.43 mm instead of 1.52 mm, so again on the thin side, but possible for a worn sov. But here is the kicker, the diameter is larger than it should be, it's 22.22 mm instead of  22.05 mm. (It doesn't go through the slot on my coin checker), I've done a specific gravity test and it sits smack in the middle for what I would expect a 22ct coin to be. So it's definitely 22 ct gold.

 

But is it a fake? It's as though it's a genuine coin that has somehow been struck too hard, so it has come out slightly thinner and slightly wider.

 

I'm going to keep it whatever, as it is gold, but I have noted in my records the weird measurements, for future reference. But it is strange. ....... 

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HT this may be a ridiculous thing to say, but with gold being such a soft metal and the coin being so old would be possible that if it had been stored under a lot of weight for a long period of time it could've flattened a little? it was just a thought really.

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HT this may be a ridiculous thing to say, but with gold being such a soft metal and the coin being so old would be possible that if it had been stored under a lot of weight for a long period of time it could've flattened a little? it was just a thought really.

 

Do you know what. That's probably not far from the truth. If it was kept in warm conditions over a hundred odd years under a heavy enough weight, then it wouldn't surprise me if that happened. :) 

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Ok, so here is a conundrum. Got an 1890 Queen Vic Jubilee Head Sydney Mint Sovereign today. It looks totally fine, a bit worn, but nothing out of the ordinary, it certainly isn't cast. 

 

It weighs 7.94 g instead of 7.99g, so a bit on the light side. But certainly not low enough to be an obvious fake. It's thickness is 1.43 mm instead of 1.52 mm, so again on the thin side, but possible for a worn sov. But here is the kicker, the diameter is larger than it should be, it's 22.22 mm instead of  22.05 mm. (It doesn't go through the slot on my coin checker), I've done a specific gravity test and it sits smack in the middle for what I would expect a 22ct coin to be. So it's definitely 22 ct gold.

 

But is it a fake? It's as though it's a genuine coin that has somehow been struck too hard, so it has come out slightly thinner and slightly wider.

 

I'm going to keep it whatever, as it is gold, but I have noted in my records the weird measurements, for future reference. But it is strange. .......

I should not worry about the small variation in diameter as everything else points to a genuine coin.

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  • 2 years later...
On 24/10/2014 at 23:31, Pete said:

 

A sovereign's average thickness is 1.52mm ( not rim thickness which can be much higher ).

How thick can the rim be on a real sovereign?

I have a 2014 that seems to have a much thicker rim than other earlier dated sovereigns.

 

I haven't got calipers to check the thickness  but the weight is spot on as is the diameter when compared by sitting on top of other coins.

It also has a really nice long ping so I'm not necessarily concerned that it's a fake but the rim does seem pretty thick.

Also when looking at it under magnification it looks exactly the same as other real sovereigns.

Are there modern fakes that are picture perfect?

 

 

If anyone has a 2014 bullion sovereign that they could have a look at to see if the rim is fatter than usual it would be much appreciated.

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