EU, UK, US, CA tax laws

[Ablist]

I’ve been reading a number of the threads here and it seems like taxes are quite a bit more complex in the UK and some other countries than here in the US. Here are a few theoretical questions..

1. What if you are trading a coin to someone else and no money actually exchanges hands, you are simply trading coins. However you do have to fill out customs forms, due to the coins high value. You would obviously want insurance and a signature of receipt. How would this play out. Does anyone have experience trading a coin in a scenario like this? 

2. Has anyone in the US here ordered from companies like PowerCoin. Depending on what you are buying I think some items are taxable (although not many bullion Government issued coins). And then also what about any trade tariffs, customs fees etc?

[Bimetallic]

3 hours ago, Ablist said:

I’ve been reading a number of the threads here and it seems like taxes are quite a bit more complex in the UK and some other countries than here in the US. Here are a few theoretical questions..

1. What if you are trading a coin to someone else and no money actually exchanges hands, however you do have to fill at customs forms do if it’s high value coin you would obviously want insurance and a signature of receipt. How would this play out. Does anyone have experience trading a coin in a scenario like this? 

2. Has anyone in the US here ordered from companies like PowerCoin. Depending on what you are buying I think some items are taxable (although not many bullion Government issued coins). And then also what about any trade tariffs, customs fees etc?

Taxes are about to get more complex in the US. JM Bullion, one of the leading US dealers, recently posted this update:
 

Quote

 

On June 21, 2018, the Supreme Court of the United States announced a decision in the South Dakota v. Wayfair Inc. case. In short, South Dakota argued that it was losing out on local sales taxes as consumers spent more money shopping online rather than in brick-and-mortar locations. The 1992 Quill Corp v. North Dakota case had set a precedent for how states would eventually deal with online retailers. Back then, the court ruled in favor of Quill Corp, which it agreed did not need to collect sales tax on sales in North Dakota because it had no physical presence in the state.

The June 21^st decision in 2018 by SCOTUS wipes out that precedent and opens the door for states to begin forcing online retailers to collect and remit local sales taxes. Online retailers are now forced with adapting to a variety of different sales tax rates and rules across the nation. At JM Bullion, we’re adjusting to the changes and working to make it easier for our customer base to gain a clearer understanding of their total sales figure before a purchase is complete.

 

That said, to answer your second question at least, the US does not levy import tariffs on precious metals bullion. The applicable chapter of the US tariff schedule is here. (PDF. It should come up as Chapter 71 by itself.)

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

1 - This will depend on where the coin is going and what tax is like in that region. Currently you'd be fine in the US and Canada where PM's are not taxed. Tax varies throughout Europe so it would be down to the tax rate in the country it is arriving in. In the UK VAT on silver is 20% so if you are doing a trade with someone in the UK whatever the UK recipient is receiving would be liable for 20% VAT plus the carriers handling fee - £8 for Royal Mail but up to £16 for the couriers. It is also important to note in the UK VAT is charged on the total order value which includes shipping. So expensive insured shipping which is sensible makes the tax bill go up.

2 - You should be fine as you shouldn't be liable for any import taxes. That said the prices on PowerCoin may already have some VAT baked in and if that is the case you should be able to get a refund for that when exporting to the US. It would be worth sending them a message in the event that they do already have VAT baked in to the price you see.

[Ablist]

Thank you, this is a lot of what I was looking for 👍

 I noticed getting taxed by a few companies from California, as I live in the same state, so I have avoided buying from them generally speaking. So yes, now we will see how it plays out with other states. 

And I guess I am surprised to learn that there would be taxes on traded coins. I will have to look more into that.

[mr1030]

I'm also in California and avoid buying from dealers in this state.  If you do want to buy from a California dealer, you can avoid sales tax by buying over $1500 worth.  Although be careful as I have found that some dealers websites will still add sales tax on orders over $1500 even when you enter a California shipping/billing address.  In that case, get on the phone with them, and if they still insist on adding sales tax, find another dealer.

[Ablist]

Good info to know, I was not aware of this. Tax is a big deal, adds so much more than the premium over spot itself many times.

[Ablist]

And to follow up on this. Why are there not taxes when purchasing over $1500? Is this due to it being considered an investment purchase or something of that nature?

[Bimetallic]

1 hour ago, Ablist said:

And to follow up on this. Why are there not taxes when purchasing over $1500? Is this due to it being considered an investment purchase or something of that nature?

It's not clear why, but a lot of states do this. Texas had a similar threshold (maybe $1,000) until recently when it revised its law to exempt all purchases of gold and silver bullion, and maybe platinum.

[Ablist]

Oh so now TX exempts all purchases? That sounds like a move in the right direction. Hopefully California will follow suit. So sick of being overtaxed in this state, while all of these useless people keep  living off of “free” benefits that hardworking people pay for.

[mr1030]

Never under estimate the desire of the state to take ever increasing amounts of your hard earned money via the sales tax.  Especially in California.  IIRC California used to have a $1000 threshold for sales tax exempt bullion, but a much smaller list of eligible bullion types.  They increased the list to include coins, bars, foreign coinage, and other metals but increased the $ threshold.  Now that the dems have a super majority,  if they take notice of the PM market and think it is significant enough in size, it wouldn't surprise me to see them get rid of the exemption completely.  After all, if you have enough money to afford to buy PM's, then you definitely have too much, and can afford to let them tax it to put towards worthier pursuits.

[Ablist]

Hahahah well said my friend!

[Bimetallic]

7 hours ago, Ablist said:

Oh so now TX exempts all purchases? That sounds like a move in the right direction. Hopefully California will follow suit. So sick of being overtaxed in this state, while all of these useless people keep  living off of “free” benefits that hardworking people pay for.

Yeah, since 2013: https://legiscan.com/TX/text/HB78/id/854803

[flim]

you have an apple

I have an orange

let's trade

 

 

not sure if we can trade a Huawei for an Apple though