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muenzdachs

Libertad Gold Reverse Proof 2018 are ahead...

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1 hour ago, Sal said:

PCGS has graded 62 2018 RP 1 ounce Libertads and 12 1/2 ounce RP libertads and ALL have graded PF70. Wonder how many were submitted by dealers vs. individuals? Remember, If a dealer like Apmex sends a Libertad in to be graded and the grading house say's it isn't going to get a PF70 they send the coin back to Apmex to be sold to use the public.

59 from APMEX is low given how much inventory they have as the only major distributor of the 1000 coins. But then they might not have submitted all of them.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, *tada* said:

59 from APMEX is low given how much inventory they have as the only major distributor of the 1000 coins. But then they might not have submitted all of them.

 

 

Where are the 69's graded?  Oh thats right, PCGS sent them back to Apmex to be sold to the clueless retail customer. Trust me, PCGS is doing their thing as I type with more Libertads from Apmex. 62 for 62 graded P70? what a joke.

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14 minutes ago, Sal said:

Where are the 69's graded?  Oh thats right, PCGS sent them back to Apmex to be sold to the clueless retail customer. Trust me, PCGS is doing their thing as I type with more Libertads from Apmex. 62 for 62 graded P70? what a joke.

Hey we are talking under the same assumption. Please take it easy.

What I am asking is giving how much inventory they have, why only 59 got graded 70 and presumably the rest got returned. One explanation is the grade through rate is low, the other is that the bank releases in batches so APMEX doesn’t get everything ready for submission for first strike. I submitted mine personally and got grade results after APMEX’s sale.

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35 minutes ago, *tada* said:

Hey we are talking under the same assumption. Please take it easy.

What I am asking is giving how much inventory they have, why only 59 got graded 70 and presumably the rest got returned. One explanation is the grade through rate is low, the other is that the bank releases in batches so APMEX doesn’t get everything ready for submission for first strike. I submitted mine personally and got grade results after APMEX’s sale.

You keep saying 59 but the number is 62 and counting. Count yourself lucky getting a 70 from a apmex purchase.

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15 minutes ago, Sal said:

You keep saying 59 but the number is 62 and counting. Count yourself lucky getting a 70 from a apmex purchase.

That’s because APMEX special label is 59. The other 3 are from personal submissions, like mine

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Im learning more and more about the relationship between the online dealers and PCGS / NGC.  They should at very least have to disclose the coin was previously sent in for grading.  At least we know upfront. 

That said I still think its a winner coin and am probably going to get one.  It will be the first major coin I purchase in gold and the first submission I send for grading.  No idea what to expect.  

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20 hours ago, Theo said:

On EBAY today......  Is this crazy pricing or what!!!!fullsizeoutput_5bb.thumb.jpeg.562c469dee03466e32344d500b19eb38.jpeg

fullsizeoutput_5ba.jpeg

Depending on how many if any of my 1/2 ounce RP get graded PF70 I will sell you one a helluva lot cheaper than that.

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Hi Sal , I do have 1 of each in PCGS green label for Apmex, I just can't believe  the hike in prices for this coin grated at 70. Knowing that there was only 1000 minted as of now without any surprises from the mint so far..... and also being the first ever RP in gold.... Im new to the Libertads so I was trying to learn everything about the libertads before I bought them. Hopefully I made a good choice, which i think I did !!! I hope your coins get a 70 grade.... Not many getting that grade, and I don't know why.  These 2 coins are going to be interesting to watch for the future. 

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On 04/02/2019 at 22:33, Sal said:

Wait until I get mine back from NGC and I'll let you know how they grade out. I bought mine from Apmex as well. PF70 is unlikely

Looks like the majority of my 1/2 reverse proofs got PF70's so I would take your chances and buy one at Apmex. This is referring to the 1/2 ounce as I didn't buy any 1 ounce coins. Good luck.

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IMO to the naked eye you would be hard pressed to see the difference between a PF69 and a PF70. What you will see is a price dicrepacy between the two grades. Maybe I will post a 69 and a 70 side by side and see if anyone with any certainty can tell the difference. 

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I am just finishing writing (and taking photos for) a nice long article for this thread, which will feature a 1oz RP which unfortunately won’t be getting a 70 grade! One very small but very interesting blemish!

I have taken delivery today of a 1/2 oz that looks great, and might get a good grade, but it will probably stay in its capsule for a while longer.

I look forward to you next post to compare a 69&70 together.

I hope you will enjoy my Valentines Day post tomorrow!?!

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47 minutes ago, Kookaburracollector said:

@Sal hi, just curious. Could you tell the difference between the 69 and 70 grades. Having so many to compare against each other should make for a good learning experience.

Thanks..

If a coin is graded 69 you can generally tell why. However there are rare cases when 69 should be graded higher at 70, and also the "crack out - resubmit" game by many people to try to upgrade the coin is prevalent. This is called "gradflation" and motivates PCGS to fingerprint each coin they have already graded. A coin graded at 69 without visible flaws can offer attractive value.

If a coin is graded 70 no flaws should be visible to naked eye without 5x magnifier and even at zoom you can almost always argue why the minute imperfection doesn't matter for grade.

If a coin is graded 70 and you find a significant issue (say actual hairline scratch instead of planchet error), then it's graded wrong and PCGS/NGC should compensate you for the difference. I have filed two claims with success with PCGS, but failed one claim vs NGC and opt to return the coin instead.

A 70, a technical grade, can have non-intrusive carbon/red/milk spots as well as slight rim issue or planchet issue that are not from post production. That's why one should buy the coin and not the holder.

Looking forward to @Sal's blind test.

 

Edited by *tada*

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@*tada* hi, Very interesting reading above..especially regarding your reference to planchet error. The coin I will be looking at later may well have an interesting  planchet error on its rim, and I was wondering how this might affect its grading...give me a couple of hours and I will try get the article finished / photos finished etc so we can review and discuss later..

regards..

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                                                                        ❤️ON VALENTINES DAY..❤️

Allow me to present...my ‘Heart of Gold’ Reverse Proof Libertad.!! 

DC72FEDC-0307-4477-A808-BEAA96E8FD3B.thumb.jpeg.23d015e08de6e2abe9f062014bde5d60.jpeg

 

43BF88F7-D961-42C8-AF8F-05EC985E658E.thumb.jpeg.33b04fed116f304ef6dcd8aa0d1c96e1.jpeg

Surprisingly, my initial reaction to receiving this coin was not ‘love at first sight’. 💕😍💕😩

On opening the long awaited parcel, the feeling of expectation almost immediately disappeared into one of disbelief 😮. We all, I am sure,

hope for perfection in the coins we buy, in anticipation of a perfect 70 grade being obtained, this clearly was not going to happen on this occasion.

As you can see, there is a mark at the bottom of the coin, just underneath the base of Victoria...dreams shattered!😂

Two things then occurred which lifted my spirits....

Firstly, I immediately contacted Soeren @muenzdachs and attached a photograph of the coin, and the wheels were set in motion to replace it. 

However, it soon became apparent that there is only one company (for a private individual not dealer) in the UK that would provide shipping with full insurance, to return the Libertad to Germany, and that would cost me over £110 ($143).Ouch!

Faced with this, plus return shipping costs, myself and Soeren agreed a different form of compensation, and I would keep the coin.

Can I just say here, that Soeren, over the days that preceded this outcome, was absolutely fantastic at trying to resolve this amicably. Correspondence between us was swift, polite and at all times professional (even with him being at the Berlin Coin Fair for 3 days).

As a result of his Fab-U-Las customer service, I bought, and have now received today, a beautiful 1/2 oz Reverse Proof Libertad, carefully selected by Soeren, and at a price I simply could not refuse!😃

B6815827-FAF7-4E3D-9438-AC84DE2FB0EB.thumb.jpeg.7775e5f69ecc55011f8ee1b079aa9795.jpeg

I did say two things lifted my spirits....

Secondly, I took some photographs of the 1oz coin and noticed something completely unexpected.... The imperfection seems to take the appearance of a heart❤️

DF9A48CC-98A9-401F-8F69-22ED33C8A0A3.thumb.jpeg.3aba8b75842029daef917cf199d71f90.jpeg

Now, clearly the Moneda de Mexico do not use a heart shaped privy mark, so the question is ...how did this heart shape get onto rim of the coin? It was definitely during the production process, as the coin has not been out of its capsule....

So, at the end of the day, I know my 1oz coin will not get a 70 grade, but I can at least console myself in the knowledge, that I probably own the only Reverse Proof Libertad with a 💕‘Heart of Gold’!💕

Discussion welcomed..and happy Valentine’s Day to you all.❤️.

 

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10 hours ago, Kookaburracollector said:

                                                                        ❤️ON VALENTINES DAY..❤️

Allow me to present...my ‘Heart of Gold’ Reverse Proof Libertad.!! 

DC72FEDC-0307-4477-A808-BEAA96E8FD3B.thumb.jpeg.23d015e08de6e2abe9f062014bde5d60.jpeg

 

43BF88F7-D961-42C8-AF8F-05EC985E658E.thumb.jpeg.33b04fed116f304ef6dcd8aa0d1c96e1.jpeg

Surprisingly, my initial reaction to receiving this coin was not ‘love at first sight’. 💕😍💕😩

On opening the long awaited parcel, the feeling of expectation almost immediately disappeared into one of disbelief 😮. We all, I am sure,

hope for perfection in the coins we buy, in anticipation of a perfect 70 grade being obtained, this clearly was not going to happen on this occasion.

As you can see, there is a mark at the bottom of the coin, just underneath the base of Victoria...dreams shattered!😂

Two things then occurred which lifted my spirits....

Firstly, I immediately contacted Soeren @muenzdachs and attached a photograph of the coin, and the wheels were set in motion to replace it. 

However, it soon became apparent that there is only one company (for a private individual not dealer) in the UK that would provide shipping with full insurance, to return the Libertad to Germany, and that would cost me over £110 ($143).Ouch!

Faced with this, plus return shipping costs, myself and Soeren agreed a different form of compensation, and I would keep the coin.

Can I just say here, that Soeren, over the days that preceded this outcome, was absolutely fantastic at trying to resolve this amicably. Correspondence between us was swift, polite and at all times professional (even with him being at the Berlin Coin Fair for 3 days).

As a result of his Fab-U-Las customer service, I bought, and have now received today, a beautiful 1/2 oz Reverse Proof Libertad, carefully selected by Soeren, and at a price I simply could not refuse!😃

B6815827-FAF7-4E3D-9438-AC84DE2FB0EB.thumb.jpeg.7775e5f69ecc55011f8ee1b079aa9795.jpeg

I did say two things lifted my spirits....

Secondly, I took some photographs of the 1oz coin and noticed something completely unexpected.... The imperfection seems to take the appearance of a heart❤️

DF9A48CC-98A9-401F-8F69-22ED33C8A0A3.thumb.jpeg.3aba8b75842029daef917cf199d71f90.jpeg

Now, clearly the Moneda de Mexico do not use a heart shaped privy mark, so the question is ...how did this heart shape get onto rim of the coin? It was definitely during the production process, as the coin has not been out of its capsule....

So, at the end of the day, I know my 1oz coin will not get a 70 grade, but I can at least console myself in the knowledge, that I probably own the only Reverse Proof Libertad with a 💕‘Heart of Gold’!💕

Discussion welcomed..and happy Valentine’s Day to you all.❤️.

 

Happy to see that Soeren was responsive and you have got a nice deal with him. It would be interesting to see if this "heart" could be considered as a mint error by NGC ! 

Edited by Frenchie

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1 hour ago, Frenchie said:

Happy to see that Soeren was responsive and you have got a nice deal with him. It would be interesting to see if this "heart" could be considered as a mint error by NGC ! 

@Frenchie Hi,

My main interest in this coin is in finding out what has caused this error..as I am sure the coin has not been removed from its capsule, ceteris paribus, it must have happened at the mint. Unfortunately, my knowledge of how proof coins are manufactured falls short of being able to explain how it may have occurred. I am hoping that in time, someone will see this thread and be able to explain this to me.

All readers please feel free to show the image to those they think knowledgable in such matters..someone out there will know!

As to NGC and grading..I bought this coin to keep and admire, and not to grade to preserve or sell...So as to whether it would be graded as a mint error by NGC, that is a question that will probably remain unanswered for a long period of time.!

Regards to all.

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