advice on proof sovereigns

[darrol]

I have £1000 to spend and welcome any advice  on purchasing my first gold proof sovereigns?   I have  Been looking on eBay as a starting point and I am  not to bothered about what the  dates are ,  anything from 1980 up to 2018 with box should be fine , What sort of prices should I expect?  And what sort of checks should I be making to ensure the best chance of a good purchase and I don’t get any fakes .

[Goldmick]

Think the is some on here for sale much safer than e bay 

[Goldmick]

Just had a look don't think you can see them yet if your not a premium member. Myself i would not buy from e bay until you khow sovereign.s well would go to hgm or Atkinson.s oh good coins to buy and welcome m8

[Harry]

8 minutes ago, darrol said:

I have £1000 to spend and welcome any advice  on purchasing my first gold proof sovereigns?   I have  Been looking on eBay as a starting point and I am  not to bothered about what the  dates are ,  anything from 1980 up to 2018 with box should be fine , What sort of prices should I expect?  And what sort of checks should I be making to ensure the best chance of a good purchase and I don’t get any fakes .

I have a few for sale with boxes - happy to offer you really competitive prices. 

[Goldmick]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

I have a few for sale with boxes - happy to offer you really competitive prices. 

It was some of yours i was looking at m8 lol

[Harry]

 

[Cornishfarmer]

22 minutes ago, darrol said:

I have £1000 to spend and welcome any advice  on purchasing my first gold proof sovereigns?   I have  Been looking on eBay as a starting point and I am  not to bothered about what the  dates are ,  anything from 1980 up to 2018 with box should be fine , What sort of prices should I expect?  And what sort of checks should I be making to ensure the best chance of a good purchase and I don’t get any fakes .

Put a wanted in the sales section.     Some here got a really good deal on some Australian sovereigns so they may be worth looking at. Personally I like the design more than the standard proof sovereign 

[sixgun]

There is a 1980 proof on Atkinsons - not a special year but i though an ok price. No box or certificate - but you could always get it graded

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/pre-owned/gold/pre-owned-gold-coins/pre-owned-1980-full-gold-proof-sovereign-coin

[darrol]

should I expect these proof coins to have some marks on? Just thought I would ask because I want something with know marks on  .

 

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Added 0 minutes later...

22 minutes ago, sixgun said:

There is a 1980 proof on Atkinsons - not a special year but i though an ok price. No box or certificate - but you could always get it graded

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/pre-owned/gold/pre-owned-gold-coins/pre-owned-1980-full-gold-proof-sovereign-coin

should I expect these proof coins to have some marks on? Just thought I would ask because I want something with know marks on  .

[richatthecroft]

49 minutes ago, darrol said:

I have £1000 to spend and welcome any advice  on purchasing my first gold proof sovereigns?   I have  Been looking on eBay as a starting point and I am  not to bothered about what the  dates are ,  anything from 1980 up to 2018 with box should be fine , What sort of prices should I expect?  And what sort of checks should I be making to ensure the best chance of a good purchase and I don’t get any fakes .

Welcome to the Crack-Cocaine of the coin world...

[sixgun]

1 minute ago, darrol said:

should I expect these proof coins to have some marks on? Just thought I would ask because I want something with know marks on  .

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i have bought proof coins from Atkinsons when i thought they were a good price - they were spot on. Give them a call and ask.

[darrol]

2 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

Welcome to the Crack-Cocaine of the coin world...

 

3 minutes ago, sixgun said:

i have bought proof coins from Atkinsons when i thought they were a good price - they were spot on. Give them a call and ask.

I do have limited experience on these lovely coins ,  I have some bullion coins and enjoy that but wanted some proof to add ,  Might seem a silly question but can you handle proof coins because I check weight and measure size to check for fakes and I noticed some people seal the proof coins  ,  

[sixgun]

8 minutes ago, darrol said:

 

I do have limited experience on these lovely coins ,  I have some bullion coins and enjoy that but wanted some proof to add ,  Might seem a silly question but can you handle proof coins because I check weight and measure size to check for fakes and I noticed some people seal the proof coins  ,  

Well if you decided to do this you must have gloves - you could weigh the coin - i really do not like to touch them - you can see they are the business - a proof sovereign is pretty obviously the right thing. i would do some really good photos and put them on the forum for us to look at.

[richatthecroft]

54 minutes ago, darrol said:

I am  not to bothered about what the  dates are ,  anything from 1980 up to 2018 with box should be fine

Seriously, before pulling the trigger, I would have a good think about having more of a focus, retracing your steps can be expensive.  

Also consider  if you wish to grade them or not, look at populations of Sovereigns already graded at NGC/PCGS. Have a look at prices, some year dates attract massive premium. 

If it’s modern Proof Sovereigns, maybe consider a decade long date run?  Or Birth years of your children/grandchildren or you and a loved one? (if your lucky enough to be this young!). Maybe consider ‘special’ design years? 

Or maybe consider collecting  ‘sets’ half’s or Quarter’s up to 5 Pound Sovereigns. 

In my opinion, your initial  choice is very important. 

 

[h103efa]

1 minute ago, richatthecroft said:

Seriously, before pulling the trigger, I would have a good think about having more of a focus, retracing your steps can be expensive.  

Also consider  if you wish to grade them or not, look at populations of Sovereigns already graded at NGC/PCGS. Have a look at prices, some year dates attract massive premium. 

If it’s modern Proof Sovereigns, maybe consider a decade long date run?  Or Birth years of your children/grandchildren or you and a loved one? (if your lucky enough to be this young!). Maybe consider ‘special’ design years? 

Or maybe consider collecting  ‘sets’ half’s or Quarter’s up to 5 Pound Sovereigns. 

In my opinion, your initial  choice is very important. 

 

This is worth being pinned somewhere, great advice Rich. The hard bit is sticking to it!

[darrol]

4 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

Seriously, before pulling the trigger, I would have a good think about having more of a focus, retracing your steps can be expensive.  

Also consider  if you wish to grade them or not, look at populations of Sovereigns already graded at NGC/PCGS. Have a look at prices, some year dates attract massive premium. 

If it’s modern Proof Sovereigns, maybe consider a decade long date run?  Or Birth years of your children/grandchildren or you and a loved one? (if your lucky enough to be this young!). Maybe consider ‘special’ design years? 

Or maybe consider collecting  ‘sets’ half’s or Quarter’s up to 5 Pound Sovereigns. 

In my opinion, your initial  choice is very important. 

 

Thanks for your advice ! I think I would go for some birth years which would be nice < I don't think I will be getting them graded or even buying a graded coin  ,  Something that is boxed with a certificate of authenticity would be nice, I know people don't like the idea of someone new purchasing of ebay but I like that I can see the coin and I do get some protection from pay pal , I  am not going to rush in to anything and have a good think about all my options 

[Xander]

2 hours ago, darrol said:

I have £1000 to spend and welcome any advice  on purchasing my first gold proof sovereigns?   I have  Been looking on eBay as a starting point and I am  not to bothered about what the  dates are ,  anything from 1980 up to 2018 with box should be fine , What sort of prices should I expect?  And what sort of checks should I be making to ensure the best chance of a good purchase and I don’t get any fakes .

Some of the older bullion sovereigns are nice.

[Martlet]

5 hours ago, richatthecroft said:

Also consider  if you wish to grade them or not, look at populations of Sovereigns already graded at NGC/PCGS. Have a look at prices, some year dates attract massive premium. 

Is there a link for this?  I find the census but not prices for individual year/grade (shop link goes to "MAShop" with every sov listed).  Or are the price discovery elsewhere?

 

[richatthecroft]

1 hour ago, Martlet said:

Is there a link for this?  I find the census but not prices for individual year/grade (shop link goes to "MAShop" with every sov listed).  Or are the price discovery elsewhere?

 

I should firstly declare that I am absolutely no expert in collecting coins of any description.  I can only cite my limited knowledge of buying, selling and recently collecting modern Proof Sovereigns as well as all the other coins/bars I manage to easily get distracted by. 

I just apply the same principles to investing and collecting coins as to what I do day to day at work.

I work in healthcare, so important to gather as much information as possible from a variety of resources- pay attention to the objective evidence- listen to, but filter the subjective evidence- pay attention to my gut feeling- assess the risks involved- then, make a decision as to what to do. 

No link to prices- what I was referring to in terms of price, is the importance of researching your prospective purchases thoroughly.   

Before I buy a graded or even a raw Proof coin I always attempt to find out an average asking price, or better still a sale price. 

No science to this, I just try and keep focussed of what I am looking out for, and scour the internet for coin shops selling that coin and also check out physical and virtual auctions via ‘atthesaleroom’ for sold prices of it. 

eBay is a more immediate guide. I set up Watch alerts of specific coins I’m interested in and watch them until their conclusion if an auction, but also check out revisions made in buyitnow prices, also, determine the amount of times a coin is re-listed and the length of time or when it was first listed.  The Forum is also a very good indicator of what  a coin is worth, as there’s an enthusiastic audience. 

Its not a quick process, but forearmed is forewarned. To be honest though, my research tells me that when it comes to Proof coins, particularly, graded coins, and more so with top grade coins, then there is no ‘average’ price.

The market decides in that snapshot of time- two bidders desperate for the same coin can pay way more than the price a similar offering realised the day previously or will the day after. 

My advice is that although price is a major factor, there is more to it. 

DYOR, read these Forum pages, ask questions of other forum members,  buy or lend books on coins, pay attention to mintage figures, check out populations of graded coins, but crucially, get out of the house and visit local coin shops and fairs, take a loupe and ask to have a look at the coins on offer- you can forge fabulous relationships and gain knowledge from face to face contact with coin shop owners. 

 Auction room viewing days are invaluable for handling coins and identifying defects in coins or seeing some real coin gems in the flesh. Auction room porters are often an invaluable font of knowledge- sometimes more knowledgeable than the Auctioneer. 

I could go on all night... but I would bore everyone to death. 

[fiveshotdon]

8 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

I could go on all night... but I would bore everyone to death. 

your not boring anyone please continue...

[sovereignsteve]

13 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

eBay is a more immediate guide. I set up Watch alerts of specific coins I’m interested in and watch them until their conclusion if an auction, but also check out revisions made in buyitnow prices, also, determine the amount of times a coin is re-listed and the length of time or when it was first listed

wow!

[Pete]

One of the problems buying a proof coin especially when paying a premium ( anything over 10% to me is a premium for a proof ) is the condition of the coin.
Many proofs are in their original capsules, generally supplied in a box with a certificate.
However a lot of proofs come out of sets so will only be supplied in their capsules.
What I have experienced over the years are a number of proofs that show fine scratches or worse fingerprints.
At some stage in their life someone has removed a nice proof from its capsule and was not wearing gloves.
Often a particle of dust has landed on the coin and someone has used a wipe rather than a jet of air or soft lens cleaning brush and introduced fine scratches.
If paying a premium you want perfection i.e. FDC meaning no scratches or marks of any sort.
I have purchased "FDC" proofs from a couple of popular dealers and been very disappointed in their condition and in one instance returned an expensive coin for refund.
This involved an argument over the phone and since then I have never made a further purchase from this well known dealer.

When coming to sell, my experience is that you need to sell privately as no dealer will offer more than bullion price, or if they do only up to spot.
Forget expecting an offer 10% below their advertised selling price for the same coin which could be double spot ( or more ).

As for setting a sales price that is trial and error.
Forget prices shown on some dealer sites as no-one in their right mind will pay these prices.
It does take some research to determine the market price, but more often than not, I guess, the premium is much less than first thought.

Most proofs especially sovereigns and Britannias are stunning coins to look at compared to their bullion equivalents.
Same goes for silver proofs but at the end of the day you might be disappointed in the price when it comes to sell.
With £1,000 to spend take a look at 3 coin boxed sovereign proof sets - double, single and half sovereign.

[darrol]

On ‎24‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 16:16, Pete said:

One of the problems buying a proof coin especially when paying a premium ( anything over 10% to me is a premium for a proof ) is the condition of the coin.
Many proofs are in their original capsules, generally supplied in a box with a certificate.
However a lot of proofs come out of sets so will only be supplied in their capsules.
What I have experienced over the years are a number of proofs that show fine scratches or worse fingerprints.
At some stage in their life someone has removed a nice proof from its capsule and was not wearing gloves.
Often a particle of dust has landed on the coin and someone has used a wipe rather than a jet of air or soft lens cleaning brush and introduced fine scratches.
If paying a premium you want perfection i.e. FDC meaning no scratches or marks of any sort.
I have purchased "FDC" proofs from a couple of popular dealers and been very disappointed in their condition and in one instance returned an expensive coin for refund.
This involved an argument over the phone and since then I have never made a further purchase from this well known dealer.

When coming to sell, my experience is that you need to sell privately as no dealer will offer more than bullion price, or if they do only up to spot.
Forget expecting an offer 10% below their advertised selling price for the same coin which could be double spot ( or more ).

As for setting a sales price that is trial and error.
Forget prices shown on some dealer sites as no-one in their right mind will pay these prices.
It does take some research to determine the market price, but more often than not, I guess, the premium is much less than first thought.

Most proofs especially sovereigns and Britannias are stunning coins to look at compared to their bullion equivalents.
Same goes for silver proofs but at the end of the day you might be disappointed in the price when it comes to sell.
With £1,000 to spend take a look at 3 coin boxed sovereign proof sets - double, single and half sovereign.

Would you say proofs that do have marks or finger print on  are worth getting for the right price?  I have noticed a lot of proofs on ebay are in capsules and I have even seen some sellers showing them out of the capsule, they don’t always tell you the condition only to look at the pictures they have , This does help but again not everything shows up on a camera and what you can see might effect the price , I don’t mind getting the less perfect proof coin as long as there is a market for them, and I am not buying something that will only sell for bullion that I have paid more for ,  At this point I have only been buying bullion coins  because you don’t have to worry to much about the condition or marks ,  although I would like at lest a few proof coins I am still holding off until I understand more and the prices I should be expected to pay  .

[sovereignsteve]

3 hours ago, darrol said:

 I have noticed a lot of proofs on ebay are in capsules and I have even seen some sellers showing them out of the capsule, they don’t always tell you the condition only to look at the pictures they have

you could always ask the specific question regarding condition, marks etc

[Pete]

14 hours ago, darrol said:

Would you say proofs that do have marks or finger print on  are worth getting for the right price?  I have noticed a lot of proofs on ebay are in capsules and I have even seen some sellers showing them out of the capsule, they don’t always tell you the condition only to look at the pictures they have , This does help but again not everything shows up on a camera and what you can see might effect the price , I don’t mind getting the less perfect proof coin as long as there is a market for them, and I am not buying something that will only sell for bullion that I have paid more for ,  At this point I have only been buying bullion coins  because you don’t have to worry to much about the condition or marks ,  although I would like at lest a few proof coins I am still holding off until I understand more and the prices I should be expected to pay  .

By the nature of your question I am assuming you are hoping to buy and sell ( later ) proofs.
As I commented on earlier the real value of a proof is its strike and beauty.
Collectors will want as near a perfect coin as possible so noticeable scratches and finger prints will spoil the coin and also its premium.
I would never rely on an eBayer's description as 99 times out of 100 the seller doesn't really have the knowledge and might genuinely be describing a hairline scratched coin as perfect.
Fine gold is extremely soft and the slightest rub to remove dust particles inevitably introduces fine scratch lines that will be visible under a bright light when viewed at a glancing angle.
I speak from personal experience.
Also, many boxed proofs have a warning advising not to handle without gloves.
A fingerprint unintentionally added to the face of a coin, if left for years, will almost be impossible to remove without causing visible damage unless cleaned by someone with experience.

If you can purchase proofs for a token premium say up to 6% over spot because they are not 100% perfect then you would expect that they should sell for the same.
Pay more than this then you are running a risk or disappointment.
A lot also depends on the coin and its year and who at the time is looking to buy.
I've received reasonable good, but slightly marked, proof coins from HGM sold at their regular bullion prices, some in original screw capsules.
What do you think the seller got paid - that should answer your concern I hope ?