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coppernut

Bars vs Coins

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I have a small "stack" as ive only just started.

My original plan was to buy bars as I love the look over coins (just my preference) until i recieved my fordt order of 2 1oz bars...looks a look bigger in the photos 😂.

Have a few coins now and a forum bar on the way so ill see where i go from here

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Pamp bars are very pretty and have a high premium - when buying and when selling. 

Stack a load of cheap silver - bar or coin - and then start buying stuff you like - bar or coin - if the price is reasonable. I generally prefer bars but I really want a silver valiant and I do like pandas, which don't come in bars. (Someone will probably post a photo of a panda in bar form now.)

The dragon bars pictured above look good IMHO but are classified as coins so you can get lower/no purchase tax if buying from the EU. 

Edited by Blockhead
Thought of something else

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On 25/10/2018 at 21:58, Blockhead said:

Pamp bars are very pretty and have a high premium - when buying and when selling. 

Stack a load of cheap silver - bar or coin - and then start buying stuff you like - bar or coin - if the price is reasonable. I generally prefer bars but I really want a silver valiant and I do like pandas, which don't come in bars. (Someone will probably post a photo of a panda in bar form now.)

The dragon bars pictured above look good IMHO but are classified as coins so you can get lower/no purchase tax if buying from the EU. 

As I am new to stacking can I ask how one goes about first getting a stack of cheap silver. Do you mean simply buy by weight coins and bars or something else? I am looking at placing my first order and having gone over many posts in the forum (many many more to read too) I am starting to feel somewhat overwhelmed by the broad range of information available here. Excellent by the way :-) 

Really I simply need to make a start and improve over time so for now just thinking about best approaches really.

All tips / suggestions /  thoughts welcome thanks, ever so much appreciated :-)

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Yes, for cheap silver I suggest buying a load of bullion (i.e. 999 or 9999 fine) coins or bars, possibly in bulk from a single source, and would consider buying from the EU to save on the 20% VAT on silver we pay. Postage needn't cost as much as the saving (often doesn't), and some websites have UK bank accounts so you wouldn't pay currency conversion fees. I know for those who don't have UK bank accounts there are services like Transferwise referred to on here, but I've no experience with them.

For example, eldoradocoins (in Germany): you could get 10x 1oz Kangaroos for about £15 each and about £6 delivery. That's just an example I've been looking recently, not an endorsement :)

Things to think about on a stack of cheap silver are whether you want larger units of silver, like 10oz, 500g or 1kg bars or coins, or lots of smaller units like 1oz, or something in between. You may want to just buy one particular type of coin/bar in bulk to enjoy the best discount or you might want a little variety. There isn't necessarily a right or wrong answer here as long as you understand the benefits and disadvantages. 

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23 hours ago, Blockhead said:

Yes, for cheap silver I suggest buying a load of bullion (i.e. 999 or 9999 fine) coins or bars, possibly in bulk from a single source, and would consider buying from the EU to save on the 20% VAT on silver we pay. Postage needn't cost as much as the saving (often doesn't), and some websites have UK bank accounts so you wouldn't pay currency conversion fees. I know for those who don't have UK bank accounts there are services like Transferwise referred to on here, but I've no experience with them.

For example, eldoradocoins (in Germany): you could get 10x 1oz Kangaroos for about £15 each and about £6 delivery. That's just an example I've been looking recently, not an endorsement :)

Things to think about on a stack of cheap silver are whether you want larger units of silver, like 10oz, 500g or 1kg bars or coins, or lots of smaller units like 1oz, or something in between. You may want to just buy one particular type of coin/bar in bulk to enjoy the best discount or you might want a little variety. There isn't necessarily a right or wrong answer here as long as you understand the benefits and disadvantages. 

Thank you very much. This helps clarify alot for me. I will indeed be placing an order with BYB working on doing so next weekend. Probably a combination of coins and bars. 

So if spending around £2000 what would you guys think would be a good mix for someone based in the UK with a UK bank account. That has never bought any gold or silver before for stacking. I guess a better question is what would your choice be (this is open to all in this forum) if you knew what you know now. And were going back to when you first started collecting silver. How would you spend your initial £2000 :-)

yes I am not looking for financial advice and understand one can not give such advice. But interested to see how YOU would spend such amounts if your goal was first and foremost to start building a stack of silver from scratch.

All comments are welcome and much appreciated. Thank you :-)

 


Added 0 minutes later...
23 hours ago, Blockhead said:

You could also jump on the group order that Backyard Bullion does here. 

I am planing on doing exactly that :-) Thank you.

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29 minutes ago, liquidmetal said:

Thank you very much. This helps clarify alot for me. I will indeed be placing an order with BYB working on doing so next weekend. Probably a combination of coins and bars. 

So if spending around £2000 what would you guys think would be a good mix for someone based in the UK with a UK bank account. That has never bought any gold or silver before for stacking. I guess a better question is what would your choice be (this is open to all in this forum) if you knew what you know now. And were going back to when you first started collecting silver. How would you spend your initial £2000 🙂

yes I am not looking for financial advice and understand one can not give such advice. But interested to see how YOU would spend such amounts if your goal was first and foremost to start b/uilding a stack of silver from scratch.

All comments are welcome and much appreciated. Thank you 🙂

 


Added 0 minutes later...

I am planing on doing exactly that 🙂 Thank you.

 

For the group order via europe, i would probably stick to silver coins. Most gold can be bought cheaper from the UK.  Somewhere like atkinsons bullion. The euro sites aren't great for buying bars either, not much choice. I'd probably go to the silver forum sales section if you want silver bars.

 

As for what I would buy with that amount, probably too much high premium stuff :D. I would say the queens beast 2oz coins are a good buy as they are low premium and collectable. I would probably also get some britannias and gold sovereigns.

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50 minutes ago, liquidmetal said:

So if spending around £2000 what would you guys think would be a good mix for someone based in the UK with a UK bank account. That has never bought any gold or silver before for stacking.

Don't rush in you have plenty of time :) Don't buy 2k worth of maples or owls or the cheapest for pure weight.Then later regret your purchases,wishing you had added

afew more premium bits :) or you have a change of heart and only want to collect bars.Or do you want to just stack the cheapest silver you can get.

28 minutes ago, Bullionaire said:

As for what I would buy with that amount, probably too much high premium stuff :D. I would say the queens beast 2oz coins are a good buy as they are low premium and collectable. I would probably also get some britannias and gold sovereigns.

Id 2nd this,build up a foundation of something then you can add to that over time.

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On 28/10/2018 at 13:46, Bullionaire said:

 

For the group order via europe, i would probably stick to silver coins. Most gold can be bought cheaper from the UK.  Somewhere like atkinsons bullion. The euro sites aren't great for buying bars either, not much choice. I'd probably go to the silver forum sales section if you want silver bars.

 

As for what I would buy with that amount, probably too much high premium stuff :D. I would say the queens beast 2oz coins are a good buy as they are low premium and collectable. I would probably also get some britannias and gold sovereigns.

Excellent, thank you this kind of info helps alot in understand how others look at this and also helps clear the glaze lol :-) Thanks again

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On 28/10/2018 at 14:17, blackadder said:

Don't rush in you have plenty of time :) Don't buy 2k worth of maples or owls or the cheapest for pure weight.Then later regret your purchases,wishing you had added

afew more premium bits :) or you have a change of heart and only want to collect bars.Or do you want to just stack the cheapest silver you can get.

Id 2nd this,build up a foundation of something then you can add to that over time.

Thank you. Really appreciated :-) 

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On 25/10/2018 at 17:22, sixgun said:

Johnson Matthey does not exist anymore. They are a collectible brand. Bars in the Europe carry VAT in all jurisdictions - you cannot buy retail bars with other than full VAT.

You would expect to see higher prices compared with a current silver coin in vast numbers.

Bars have some advantages over coins but i would not say they hold their value better.

If you are starting out at this time, i would go for cheap silver - bars or coins. Buy weight. Get some weight of silver under your belt, say 500oz and then maybe get more choosy.

Huh? Johnson Matthey still exist. They're part of the FTSE 100. Are you getting mixed up with Engelhard who were acquired by BASF....?

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2 minutes ago, CookieMonster said:

Huh? Johnson Matthey still exist. They're part of the FTSE 100. Are you getting mixed up with Engelhard who were acquired by BASF....?

The company still exists, but their bullion operations were sold to Asahi.  So no more Johnson Matthey bars will be struck unless Asahi decides to rebrand (I'm not sure if they would need to secure permission, or if these rights were transferred in the sale).  For now they just strike Asahi bars.  Heres is a brief summary:

https://www.jmbullion.com/johnson-matthey-now-asahi/

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Just now, CookieMonster said:

Huh? Johnson Matthey still exist. They're part of the FTSE 100. Are you getting mixed up with Engelhard who were acquired by BASF....?

Johnson Matthey don't make bars anymore they sold that division to Asahi in 2004. No new bars - so they will hold their value.

As JM Bullion says say JM bars - 'This product has become harder to find,as Johnson Matthey’s refining business has been soldand no new bars are being produced.'

https://www.bullionvault.com/gold-news/gold-silver-121520142

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On 28/10/2018 at 13:46, Bullionaire said:

 

For the group order via europe, i would probably stick to silver coins. Most gold can be bought cheaper from the UK.  Somewhere like atkinsons bullion. The euro sites aren't great for buying bars either, not much choice. I'd probably go to the silver forum sales section if you want silver bars.

 

As for what I would buy with that amount, probably too much high premium stuff :D. I would say the queens beast 2oz coins are a good buy as they are low premium and collectable. I would probably also get some britannias and gold sovereigns.

queens beast 2oz & Britannias are available in the group orders or no? Just wondering as I will probably stick to group order to start as its my first purchase gold sovereigns from UK supplier is best according to previous post yes? Somewhere like atkinsons bullion, although gonna start with Silver only for now :-)

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On 28/10/2018 at 13:46, Bullionaire said:

 

For the group order via europe, i would probably stick to silver coins. Most gold can be bought cheaper from the UK.  Somewhere like atkinsons bullion. The euro sites aren't great for buying bars either, not much choice. I'd probably go to the silver forum sales section if you want silver bars.

 

As for what I would buy with that amount, probably too much high premium stuff :D. I would say the queens beast 2oz coins are a good buy as they are low premium and collectable. I would probably also get some britannias and gold sovereigns.

wow just took a look at the 2oz queens beast Facon and noticed the 1oz due in November is double the price of the 2oz which is in stock. Is that simply down to the 1oz being more desirable or am I misunderstanding something here or should I say what am I missing here :-)

Edited by liquidmetal

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17 minutes ago, liquidmetal said:

wow just took a look at the 2oz queens beast Facon and noticed the 1oz due in November is double the price of the 2oz which is in stock. Is that simply down to the 1oz being more desirable or am I misunderstanding something here or should I say what am I missing here :-) 

I'm not sure which dealer site you are referring to, but the 1oz is likely a Proof Silver coin, small mintage, presentation box with certificate.  The 2oz will be the bullion coin.   

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6 hours ago, liquidmetal said:

queens beast 2oz & Britannias are available in the group orders or no? Just wondering as I will probably stick to group order to start as its my first purchase gold sovereigns from UK supplier is best according to previous post yes? Somewhere like atkinsons bullion, although gonna start with Silver only for now 🙂

Yes they'll both be available to buy. Only the European mint can be used for the next couple of weekends in the group order, but they have both coins available at good prices (not all the beasts mind, just the recent ones). Check out BYB's thread if you haven't. 

 

Sovs I would price check atkinsons, chards, bullionbypost (plus their ebay site when there are ebay vouchers live - these hey posted on threads here and you can sometimes get below spot sovs) and Hatton garden metals 

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