2018 India Gold Sovereign

[NeutronJack]

Last week, I visited Dubai on business and like many other self-respecting gatherers of shiny objects, headed to the Gold Souk during an opportune period of downtime.

Whilst wandering around one of the narrow alleyways, I happened to come across this …

… the 2018 India Gold Sovereign.

I know there’s been some discussion on the Silver Forum and YouTube among members of the community over whether these would continue to be produced after 2017, so I thought I’d offer a ‘heads-up’ to anyone interested.

One interesting point to note is the rather drastic change in the colour of the packaging material from red to brown, which meant I didn’t immediately recognize what I was looking at, to be honest.

Does anyone happen to know the reason for this?

There’s nothing to indicate on the coin itself, or the packaging, that this change has any particular meaning or significance. None of the traders/sellers I asked professed to know the reason for this either, though all were unanimous in their disapproval of the new brown colour.

So, is it a one-off … a final ‘radical’ fling? Or, merely a permanent change to be repeated in 2019 and beyond?

NeutronJack

[sovereignsteve]

5 hours ago, NeutronJack said:

One interesting point to note is the rather drastic change in the colour of the packaging material from red to brown, which meant I didn’t immediately recognize what I was looking at, to be honest.

Does anyone happen to know the reason for this?

Probably a fake.

[Goldmick]

Interesting thanks for letting us all khow

[Fivepoundfred]

These coins are now on the PAMP website.

www.mmtcpamp.com/products-services/minted

[Kman]

@NeutronJack thanks for the heads up

The new brown colour is.. hmm not so nice, id be interested in one just for the novelty if nothing else, hopefully they pop up somewhere to buy in the UK 

[augur]

Anyone with Asian (for non-British: Indian) background or insight who can comment on the updated "sedate and classical" packaging?

I suppose that the colour matches the reddish brown of the Royal Mint packaging for sovereigns. Unfortunately in the UK we probably end up with the card only, which on its own looks a bit like left hand only and fit for NCS conservation...

The coin itself is much nicer with St. George full of life opposed to the skinny deflated one from the Royal Mint this year. Just wondering if the colour is more golden indeed or just a matter of photography (it's the centenary of the India Sovereign after all).

[Roy]

1 hour ago, augur said:

it's the centenary of the India Sovereign after all

Yes, I want one.

[Goldmick]

Im after one in uk folks had a little look cant find one yet. The first one to find them could you post on here thanks 

[kimchi]

10 hours ago, augur said:

The coin itself is much nicer with St. George full of life opposed to the skinny deflated one from the Royal Mint this year. Just wondering if the colour is more golden indeed or just a matter of photography (it's the centenary of the India Sovereign after all).

Those colours match the difference between the 2017 versions I have, if that is of any help (I don't have a 2018)? Indians like their gold GOLDEN (as do I!) and the difference was clear in the 2017, it must be the alloy. Lovely coin.

I'd love one but if they only become available from the same company as last year I won't use them on principle (and will have to miss out). I found them borderline deceitful at times, and they price gouged after becoming aware the forum had publicised them and this coin.

[Kman]

1 hour ago, kimchi said:

they price gouged after becoming aware the forum had publicised them and this coin.

Yeah they did lol

I can't blame them though if people are willing to pay that, business is business (they should have given Numi a little kickback :p) 

[kimchi]

1 minute ago, Kman said:

Yeah they did lol

I can't blame them though if people are willing to pay that, business is business. 

It is, but they took the absolute pish was pretty much the consensus on here I think? And people weren't willing to pay their ridiculous upped price so they were stuck with stock for ages, where before they had a certain sell out on their hands. Oops! Didn't they also cancel somone's order and then later offer to fulfill it but only at the new 'restocked' price at £30+ per coin or so more?

They were also borderline deceitful to me twice in personal contact. Will never use again. I'm sure a forum search will quickly bring up the company concerned - I forget.

[Kman]

4 hours ago, kimchi said:

It is, but they took the absolute pish was pretty much the consensus on here I think? And people weren't willing to pay their ridiculous upped price so they were stuck with stock for ages, where before they had a certain sell out on their hands.

As best I can remember they had them at around £255, put them up to £310-20? then dropped them back down to £270

Maybe they saw someone sold 1 or 2 on Ebay for £400 though and that's why they upped the price 

[xthomasx]

On ‎22‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 17:05, NeutronJack said:

Last week, I visited Dubai on business and like many other self-respecting gatherers of shiny objects, headed to the Gold Souk during an opportune period of downtime.

Whilst wandering around one of the narrow alleyways, I happened to come across this …

… the 2018 India Gold Sovereign.

I know there’s been some discussion on the Silver Forum and YouTube among members of the community over whether these would continue to be produced after 2017, so I thought I’d offer a ‘heads-up’ to anyone interested.

One interesting point to note is the rather drastic change in the colour of the packaging material from red to brown, which meant I didn’t immediately recognize what I was looking at, to be honest.

Does anyone happen to know the reason for this?

There’s nothing to indicate on the coin itself, or the packaging, that this change has any particular meaning or significance. None of the traders/sellers I asked professed to know the reason for this either, though all were unanimous in their disapproval of the new brown colour.

So, is it a one-off … a final ‘radical’ fling? Or, merely a permanent change to be repeated in 2019 and beyond?

NeutronJack

 

Do you remember how much you paid for it? Much premium?

[Kritika]

They are going for RP 26,296 (+/- £278.29) In Delhi at the moment. This is mainly because of the current high Gold price and the sales tax you pay on Gold in India.

From the sound of it these 2018’s are very rare, so does anyone think its worth getting a few at £280? 

 

[NeutronJack]

3 hours ago, xthomasx said:

 

Do you remember how much you paid for it? Much premium?

 

@xthomasx

The average cost per coin (I actually bought more than one) worked out at under GBP 250 (inclusive of the now mandatory 5% VAT on gold in Dubai).

Though, I should mention that I purchased just over a week ago now, when the gold price was somewhat lower.

Conditions of the ‘deal’ were also a factor:

1. I made a local currency, cash only purchase.

Payment in US dollars, another currency, or by credit or debit card, would each have attracted a higher price per coin.

2. I was also able to negotiate a volume-based discount rate.

So, if I’d purchased more of them, the average price could have been lower still. But, by the same token, buying a lower quantity would have resulted in a higher average price per coin.

NeutronJack

[Goldmick]

Im after one of these anyone khow in uk that got them

[xthomasx]

35 minutes ago, NeutronJack said:

 

@xthomasx

The average cost per coin (I actually bought more than one) worked out at under GBP 250 (inclusive of the now mandatory 5% VAT on gold in Dubai).



Though, I should mention that I purchased just over a week ago now, when the gold price was somewhat lower.

Conditions of the ‘deal’ were also a factor:

1. I made a local currency, cash only purchase.

Payment in US dollars, another currency, or by credit or debit card, would each have attracted a higher price per coin.

2. I was also able to negotiate a volume-based discount rate.

So, if I’d purchased more of them, the average price could have been lower still. But, by the same token, buying a lower quantity would have resulted in a higher average price per coin.

NeutronJack

 

Thanks a lot for the info!

Did you, by chance, see other years of Indian sovs in Dubai?

[StackSellRepeat]

22 minutes ago, Goldmick said:

Im after one of these anyone khow in uk that got them

Best bet eBay, I’m sure older holidayers may have bought them & eventually will put them on the bay. Just like the 10OZ Brittana bars which are offered to the international market & not to the uk public these rounds could be the same. I Could be wrong as I haven’t done any research but just my pennies worth 😁  

[kimchi]

17 hours ago, Kman said:

As best I can remember they had them at around £255, put them up to £310-20? then dropped them back down to £270

Maybe they saw someone sold 1 or 2 on Ebay for £400 though and that's why they upped the price 

Something like that yes, dropped back to about £280/290 iirc and were stuck with stock for ages (might even still have some 2017s!) because they were trying to fleece folk. I spoke to various sellers/suppliers in India, and while they wouldn't/couldn't sell me direct, their prices hadn't changed and nor had the exchange rates (that much).

I'm pretty sure they postponed/cancelled someone's order that had already been confirmed and said they would get more stock in, then tried to charge him or her the higher ('restock') price. They tried to do something similar with me too, and there was another instance in which I found them borderline dishonest (unlike British Numismatic Treasury who are simply incompetent idiots on their imvho (part time student workers manning the UK phonelines I guess - very polite but utterly useless?) 'English' front-end, hiding in front of a German company - actually I find that pretty deceitful too).

The threads are on here for anyone wishing to search. BNT for the sorry experience about them I had (and others), and probably 2017 Indian (Sov) for that other company.

I will say, to be fair, both try to deliver what you order if they can (or feel like it), they are not scammers selling fakes and whatnot. They just don't have the morals and/or business model of a company I wish to give any further business to.

[NeutronJack]

1 hour ago, xthomasx said:

 

Thanks a lot for the info!

Did you, by chance, see other years of Indian sovs in Dubai?

 

@xthomasx

Not a single one to be found unfortunately. Not even the 2017 version. I did ask at every shop and stall I visited. But, once they’re gone, they’re gone, apparently.

The fact that Indians make up more than 30% of the country’s total population probably tells its own story.

Incidently, I got a few funny looks simply for asking about coins from previous years. The local traders focus exclusively on purity and weight of the metal. Dates were simply an irrelevance to them and I was evidently mad for asking!

On the day of my departure, one of the staff on the Duty Free Gold Stand in the Airport did actually confide in me that people asking for “the old ones with the red packaging” was by far the most common question they were being asked, to the extent that they were actually keeping a daily running score for competitive purposes.

Apparently, a considerable number of people have not been particularly impressed with the new brown-coloured packaging so far. Although they'd only had them in stock at the airport for about a week prior to my visit.

[Kritika]

26 minutes ago, NeutronJack said:

 

@xthomasx

On the day of my departure, one of the staff on the Duty Free Gold Stand in the Airport did actually confide in me that people asking for “the old ones with the red packaging” was by far the most common question they were being asked, to the extent that they were actually keeping a daily running score for competitive purposes.

Apparently, a considerable number of people have not been particularly impressed with the new brown-coloured packaging so far. Although they'd only had them in stock at the airport for about a week prior to my visit.

Regarding Gold Sov's from Dubai Airport,  my sister lives in Dubai and there are a lot of local rumour's that coins sold at the Dubai Airport are fakes, so I suggest everyone takes care when purchasing from there.

See article here https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g295424-r125543764-Dubai_Emirate_of_Dubai.html

Just out of interest I will be in India myself soon, so does anyone think its worth buying these scarcer 2018's at a £280 premium? 

[Goldmick]

£280 is not really a big premium i would buy one if i was going there as long as there real lol

[NeutronJack]

20 hours ago, Kritika said:

Regarding Gold Sov's from Dubai Airport,  my sister lives in Dubai and there are a lot of local rumour's that coins sold at the Dubai Airport are fakes, so I suggest everyone takes care when purchasing from there.

See article here https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g295424-r125543764-Dubai_Emirate_of_Dubai.html

Just out of interest I will be in India myself soon, so does anyone think its worth buying these scarcer 2018's at a £280 premium? 

 

An interesting point @Kritika

Whilst I can’t claim to be an expert on the subject, my understanding is that shops in the Gold Souk are strictly monitored and regularly audited by government authorities with frequent, on-the-spot random testing of any and all products. Any transgressions are severely punished and there are no second chances. Businesses will simply be shut down permanently for selling a single fake coin and since many have been there for decades, they simply wouldn’t dare risk any chance of losing their livelihoods.

As for the duty free gold stands in the airport, I’m not entirely sure whether they’re subject to the same regulatory intensity, or indeed whether they fall under the same legal jurisdiction.

On a slightly different note; when considering some of the elevated prices now being asked for these coins from previous years, GBP 280 doesn’t sound particularly excessive, if the opportunity to buy one actually presents itself.

So, if it was me, I’d probably go for it (assuming, of course, it wasn’t going to break the bank). If nothing else, it might serve as a tangible reminder of a memorable trip.

NeutronJack

[Kritika]

8 minutes ago, NeutronJack said:

 

An interesting point @Kritika

Whilst I can’t claim to be an expert on the subject, my understanding is that shops in the Gold Souk are strictly monitored and regularly audited by government authorities with frequent, on-the-spot random testing of any and all products. Any transgressions are severely punished and there are no second chances. Businesses will simply be shut down permanently for selling a single fake coin and since many have been there for decades, they simply wouldn’t dare risk any chance of losing their livelihoods.

As for the duty free gold stands in the airport, I’m not entirely sure whether they’re subject to the same regulatory intensity, or indeed whether they fall under the same legal jurisdiction.

On a slightly different note; when considering some of the elevated prices now being asked for these coins from previous years, GBP 280 doesn’t sound particularly excessive, if the opportunity to buy one actually presents itself.

So, if it was me, I’d probably go for it (assuming, of course, it wasn’t going to break the bank). If nothing else, it might serve as a tangible reminder of a memorable trip.

NeutronJack

Thanks @NeutronJack

You are completely correct the Souk's are strictly controlled, and I would not hesitate to buy from there if I had the chance. But is seems the Duty free is out of bounds the authorities, so if there is some scam going on with them its because they know there is little chance of anyone ever getting back inside duty free to make a complaint and they feel protected by their sheer inaccessibility.

On another note, perhaps the reason they had no stock in Duty fee is their counterfeiters have not perfected the Brown Packaging yet Ha Ha

[NeutronJack]

On ‎23‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:43, Kman said:

@NeutronJack thanks for the heads up

The new brown colour is.. hmm not so nice, id be interested in one just for the novelty if nothing else, hopefully they pop up somewhere to buy in the UK 

 

@Kman I felt the same way initially. But, the more I look at it ... the more I think it sets off the coin's colour rather well.