Goldsilver.be refuse to send my order?

[sixgun]

11 minutes ago, Kleiner said:

The question is, can they refuse to ship the rest of what I have payed for (all of it) according to the law?
And
Do they have legal support to take some coins as compensation from the new order?

I found another topic that a guy cancelled his order and paid 12 euros in fee.
https://thesilverforum.com/topic/10315-goldsilverbe-charge/

Thank you all

They can refuse to ship the rest of the order until the end of time. You have not settled your bill. There are the damages. If you have not paid in full you cannot expect to have all the coins shipped. If you do not pay in full then they can refuse to ship coins to the value of the outstanding money.

Another guy paid 12€ in damages. This does not help you.

If someone ordered 5000€ of coins - the contract was made the order was then cancelled. Goldsilver.be has lost the profit they would have made on the coins and then there is price movement in the value of the coins. If the price of silver falls - the emails from goldsilver.be suggest the price of silver fell, then the value of the coins will fall. Perhaps now an order for the same coins is 4500€. So not only did goldsilver.be lose profit they would have made had the order not been cancelled but they are left with coins which are worth less money. Perhaps in the situation where the guy paid 12€ the price of the coins went up and goldsilver.be did not lose anything on the coins - perhaps now they could sell them for more.

[Kleiner]

3 minutes ago, silverdocket said:

 Quick question how did you pay for the stuff?

 PayPal/credit card 

  Perhaps  you can get the payment blocked pending an investigation.

 In the matter of interest what was the time between placing the order and asking about the adjustment/ cancellation 

I payed via Transferwise. bank transfer.

The time between placing the order (the one they cancelled) and asking for adjustment was between 8-10 hours. 

[sixgun]

9 minutes ago, Kleiner said:

I payed via Transferwise. bank transfer.

The time between placing the order (the one they cancelled) and asking for adjustment was between 8-10 hours. 

The time period over which the damages could be assessed is still potentially running. You have not discharged your responsibilities under the contract by paying the damages stemming from the order you cancelled - you wanted to alter the contract which means you cancelled it. If goldsilver.be said we still have those coins Kleiner ordered and those coins have gone down 1000€ then the damages would be 1000€ plus administration plus lost profits (plus cost of the legal case if there were any). There is NO cooling off period - it doesn't matter if it is 8-10 hours or 8-10 minutes.

[silverdocket]

4 minutes ago, Kleiner said:

I payed via Transferwise. bank transfer.

The time between placing the order (the one they cancelled) and asking for adjustment was between 8-10 hours. 

 Quick question how did you pay for the stuff?

 PayPal/credit card 

  Perhaps  you can get the payment blocked pending an investigation.

 

 In the matter of interest what was the time between placing the order and asking about the adjustment/ cancellation 

have you contacted transferwise yet?

 Might be a first option.

 Do you remember did the price of The coins go up or down at the time?  If so by how much?

 If they went up  you my have to do a deal.

 Then move on from it.

 I recently cancelled an order for the European mint because of my PayPal account,

 Absolutely no problem Doing this.

 No extra cost 

 Since that I've ordered over €3000 worth of stuff Off them.

 Pleasure to do business With.

 

[Goldhooked]

1 hour ago, sixgun said:

i don't know how it works in Belgium but in England the loser pays the costs.

In UK Small Claims court (claims up to £10000), legal costs are not awarded. Only reasonable expenses such as travel costs and loss of earnings for attending court can be (but are not always) awarded.  The Small Claims track was supposed to level the playing field somewhat and stop a better resourced party scaring their opponent off by using expensive legal counsel.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27#27.14

[sixgun]

Just now, Goldhooked said:

In UK Small Claims court (claims up to £10000), legal costs are not awarded. Only reasonable expenses such as travel costs and loss of earnings for attending court can be (but are not always) awarded.  The Small Claims track was supposed to level the playing field somewhat and stop a better resourced party scaring their opponent off by using expensive legal counsel.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27#27.14

The case would be heard in Belgium.

[Goldhooked]

5 minutes ago, sixgun said:

The case would be heard in Belgium.

I was correcting what you said - “in England the loser pays the costs”

[sixgun]

Just now, Goldhooked said:

I was correcting what you said - “in England the user pays the costs”

The general principle in England is the loser pays the costs in civil cases. Agreed in small claims case you pay your own costs - so even if Kleiner won he would pay his own costs if he took legal advice.

[Goldhooked]

3 minutes ago, sixgun said:

The general principle in England is the loser pays the costs in civil cases. Agreed in small claims case you pay your own costs - so even if Kleiner won he would pay his own costs if he took legal advice.

The way you put it sounded like you were inferring that the loser pays the winners costs otherwise why mention loser at all.  I realise this case would be under Belgian law but an equivalent case in the UK would be held in the Small Claims court.

[Croatianstacker]

I live in belgium and here the loser pays the cost but they said they wanted to change it (i'm not sure when).

This might help you https://www.eccbelgium.be/your-rights/courts/which-court

[Goldhooked]

1 minute ago, Croatianstacker said:

I live in belgium and here the loser pays the cost but they said they wanted to change it (i'm not sure when).

This might help you https://www.eccbelgium.be/your-rights/courts/which-court

I was just trying to work it out but it seems a bit more complicated in Belgium.  There is something here about “loser pays” in Belgium but there are limits to the amounts that can be claimed - https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/w-013-2762?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&comp=pluk&bhcp=1#co_anchor_a323300

I don’t know if there is seperate Small Claims track in Belgium similar to the UK which might have different rules?

[Martlet]

50 minutes ago, Kleiner said:

The question is, can they refuse to ship the rest of what I have payed for (all of it) according to the law?
And
Do they have legal support to take some coins as compensation from the new order?

I found another topic that a guy cancelled his order and paid 12 euros in fee.
https://thesilverforum.com/topic/10315-goldsilverbe-charge/

Thank you all

 

Not likely as its a separate sale, a separate contract.  If they never asked for a cancellation fee in the first case, they cant simply hold your next order to ransom until an unspecified fee is paid.

[sixgun]

This needs to be settled before it goes near a court - goldsilver.be may have legal costs insurance - they may be more than happy to go to court, other than time spent. They may claim this is part of the damages. i wonder if a lower amount could be negotiated. This thread could have cost goldsilver.be in future orders but having said that people still end up buying off the website despite all the threads where people are saying they are bad.

@Martlet they are demanding 390€ in damages. They can and i expect they will hold sending the last part of the order until this is paid. They stated there would be damaged when he cancelled the order - perhaps those damages could not be quantified at the time.

[engire]

Here in the Netherlands the loser pays the cost in theory, but like Belgium there are set amounts which usually don't cover the actual costs.

[FFkook]

Like I said before, use the EU e-justice portal, link to be found some pages back.. 

[Kleiner]

5 minutes ago, Martlet said:

Not likely as its a separate sale, a separate contract.  If they never asked for a cancellation fee in the first case, they cant simply hold your next order to ransom until an unspecified fee is paid.

Then technically that means I would win in the court if it goes so far. Hopefully is doesn't go so far.   

[Croatianstacker]

2 minutes ago, Goldhooked said:

I was just trying to work it out but it seems a bit more complicated in Belgium.  There is something here about “loser pays” in Belgium but there are limits to the amounts that can be claimed - https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/w-013-2762?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&comp=pluk&bhcp=1#co_anchor_a323300

I don’t know if there is seperate Small Claims track in Belgium similar to the UK which might have different rules?

Small Claims track? I don't understand what is a Small Claims track anyways cleaner never said explicitly that he wanted to cancel his order gs.be have chosen it without it's contentment and they now want money to pay the fees also they said they won't be sending his order which was already paid if he didn't pay a fee for anythinghe haven't wanted? that's called extortion.
(I'm not a native speaker and I read this thread pretty fast so I might be wrong in my reasoning)

[Croatianstacker]

https://economie.fgov.be/en/themes/online/belmed-online-mediation/alternative-dispute-resolution/continue/follow-guide/commercial-dispute

https://economie.fgov.be/en/themes/online/belmed-online-mediation

If i'm right mediation in belgium is free

[Roy]

I haven't read through all this thread because a lot of it I didn't understand but OP, did you have a good reason to cancel the order?

Business works both ways doesn't it? Everyone complains about GS.be (agreed, their communication is appalling) but they also have to make a living.

 

[Goldhooked]

2 minutes ago, Croatianstacker said:

Small Claims track? I don't understand what is a Small Claims track 

It’s a certain type of court in the UK that only deals with disputes in value of up to £10000.  In this particular court, or “track” as it is known as, each party bears their own legal costs no matter who wins.

[HelpingHands]

This thread has probably cost GS more than 390 Euros profit in business.

There are no winners here.

 

[Croatianstacker]

3 minutes ago, Goldhooked said:

It’s a certain type of court in the UK that only deals with disputes in value of up to £10000.  In this particular court, or “track” as it is known as, each party bears their own legal costs no matter who wins.

it's called justice de paix.The justice of the peace knows of all requests whose amount does not exceed 5.000 euro (as of September 1, 2018).

So if we are speaking about 2 monster box worth off 9000 euros he will need to go in a court.

[sixgun]

10 minutes ago, HelpingHands said:

This thread has probably cost GS more than 390 Euros profit in business.

There are no winners here.

Members keep saying i'll never order from Goldsilver.be again - then next week they see a coin at a good price and order from Goldsilver.be - they have been a bit nasty with me but i still went back and placed orders.

14 minutes ago, Croatianstacker said:

[He] never said explicitly that he wanted to cancel his order

You say you want to buy 6 sacks of flour, 5 cows and 10 sheep from me for 3000€. i say OK, its a deal.

Then you come back and say you don't want to buy 6 sacks of flour, 5 cows and 10 sheep from you for 3000€. you want to buy 4 pigs, 11 chickens and 4 sacks of potatoes for 1500€.

You have automatically cancelled the first order but in the terms of the contract you have no right to cancel the order, so you are in breach of contract and have to pay damages.

[Martlet]

28 minutes ago, sixgun said:

 

@Martlet they are demanding 390€ in damages. They can and i expect they will hold sending the last part of the order until this is paid. They stated there would be damaged when he cancelled the order - perhaps those damages could not be quantified at the time.

The issue is that they did not state that fee at time or when making subsequent order.  I agree with the principles on the matter you laid out couple hours back, but they have not covered this in the T&C nor communicated a fee for cancellation at the time of the original order.  

[Croatianstacker]

4 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Members keep saying i'll never order from Goldsilver.be again - then next week they see a coin at a good price and order from Goldsilver.be - they have been a bit nasty with me but i still went back and placed orders.

i say i want to buy 6 sacks of flour, 5 cows and 10 sheep from you for 3000€. i say OK, its a deal.

Then i come back and say i don't want to buy 6 sacks of flour, 5 cows and 10 sheep from you for 3000€. i want to buy 4 pigs, 11 chickens and 4 sacks of potatoes for 1500€.

I have automatically cancelled the first order but in the terms of the contract i have no right to cancel the order, so i am in breach of contract and have to pay damages.

I'm still gonna buy from gs.be because they have cheap shipping the possibility to make group order,the fact that they have a big sotck,fair price.I never had any issue because i always knew what i wanted but it's true that they have the worst customer service i have ever saw.

 

I have totaly understood that but i think that in belgium law it need to be explicit, i think as long as  he don't say cancel the order ,the order is not canceled (i might be wrong)