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Gold Proof Sovereigns


Mike

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I’ve seen that the Royal Mint offer limited edition proof sovereigns at significant margins over spot/bullion coin price.  Is there any advantage in these?  They always seem to sell out quickly and yet I see them being traded on Chards / Bullion by Post and they don;t seem to have the same premium?  Any views gratefully received

(BTW. -love the site, signed up as a premium member just to keep it going)

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27 minutes ago, Mike said:

I’ve seen that the Royal Mint offer limited edition proof sovereigns at significant margins over spot/bullion coin price.  Is there any advantage in these?  They always seem to sell out quickly and yet I see them being traded on Chards / Bullion by Post and they don;t seem to have the same premium?  Any views gratefully received

(BTW. -love the site, signed up as a premium member just to keep it going)

Being a fair noob to the world of proof sovereigns myself too, i had wondered the same thing. Why would anybody buy direct from the royal mint when seemingly any individual coin can be picked up for much less from bullionbypost etc? There must be people who do but i wonder if these are people that perhaps dont know any better? 

Out of interest i am looking to pick up a birth year proof sovereign for my daughter and son (2015 & 2018), where, leaning on the experience of the forum would be the best place to buy?

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34 minutes ago, Mike said:

I see them being traded on Chards / Bullion by Post and they don;t seem to have the same premium?

These companies buy in bulk which means they get them cheaper. If I really want a particular coin I order it from the mint in advance just to make sure I get it before it's sold out.

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With the proof sov's there will be lower mintages generally or they will mark an anniversary of some sort. They are pricey, usually double the price of a bullion sovereign.. but they are just sooo nice. Stay away... you will get hooked on them! ;)  Ones like Stamp on the Day (SOTD) will be quite popular as there will be a limited mintage and you know it was from a key date of some sort, they usually sell out fast but RM are starting to flood the market with a sovereign for every occasion. They will probably have a SOTD for "Its a wednesday, why not" next.

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21 minutes ago, silverbeaker said:

Being a fair noob to the world of proof sovereigns myself too, i had wondered the same thing. Why would anybody buy direct from the royal mint when seemingly any individual coin can be picked up for much less from bullionbypost etc? There must be people who do but i wonder if these are people that perhaps dont know any better? 

Out of interest i am looking to pick up a birth year proof sovereign for my daughter and son (2015 & 2018), where, leaning on the experience of the forum would be the best place to buy?

http://allgoldcoins.co.uk/proof-gold-sovereigns.php have proof sovereigns for both of the years you mention, I can’y Comment on whether they represent good value though...

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12 hours ago, silverbeaker said:

Being a fair noob to the world of proof sovereigns myself too, i had wondered the same thing. Why would anybody buy direct from the royal mint when seemingly any individual coin can be picked up for much less from bullionbypost etc? There must be people who do but i wonder if these are people that perhaps dont know any better? 

Out of interest i am looking to pick up a birth year proof sovereign for my daughter and son (2015 & 2018), where, leaning on the experience of the forum would be the best place to buy?

If youre not bothered about them being proof's then the bullion versions can be had for close to spot price usually. I have 2018 bullion sovs and they look nice and shiney. You could always put a wanted post up in the for sale section and see if you get anyone wanting to sell those years there.

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47 minutes ago, Xander said:

These companies buy in bulk which means they get them cheaper. 

Cheaper than the manufacturer?  Its not unique situation, all sorts of products are offered cheaper from third parties, retailers, etc than the original manufacture.  I have no answer why.

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19 hours ago, silverbeaker said:

Being a fair noob to the world of proof sovereigns myself too, i had wondered the same thing. Why would anybody buy direct from the royal mint when seemingly any individual coin can be picked up for much less from bullionbypost etc? There must be people who do but i wonder if these are people that perhaps dont know any better? 

Out of interest i am looking to pick up a birth year proof sovereign for my daughter and son (2015 & 2018), where, leaning on the experience of the forum would be the best place to buy?

You can get the 2018 Proof sovereign here at the same price as the royal mint where it’s now sold out

https://www.bnt.org.uk/the-royal-mints-sovereign-2018

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19 hours ago, silverbeaker said:

Being a fair noob to the world of proof sovereigns myself too, i had wondered the same thing. Why would anybody buy direct from the royal mint when seemingly any individual coin can be picked up for much less from bullionbypost etc? There must be people who do but i wonder if these are people that perhaps dont know any better? 

Out of interest i am looking to pick up a birth year proof sovereign for my daughter and son (2015 & 2018), where, leaning on the experience of the forum would be the best place to buy?

If you want bullion these are a great, reliable and reasonably priced dealer.

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/gold/gold-coins/sovereign-gold-coins/pre-owned-2015-uk-full-sovereign-gold-coin

Being bullion, and second hand depending how they’ve been treated there’s likely bag marks, scratches, dings etc. But since it’s modern bullion in my experience they’re often pretty good.

If you want a perfect coin a proof is the one to go for but they’ll cost a premium over bullion. They look nice with having a frosted details and shiny background. Some years are more expensive than others. 2015 and this year are less expensive. I have a proof 2015 I can sell if you are interested.

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  • 2 weeks later...
5 hours ago, medgasguy said:

I wonder if they would ship to the States? Could not find an answer either way on their site.

This customer service isn't the best, but they do eventually respond with replies to emails

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The prices charged by the RM on proof coins and coin sets are at a level they believe the market will bear.
The price bears absolutely no relationship to intrinsic value.
The same can be said for buying Christmas presents in Harrod's food hall - eye watering mark-ups but there are enough people out there who just don't care what stuff costs.

There is a risk buying proofs from our main dealers unless you are assured the coins are new from the mint and not resold.
I've had some poor experiences with so called FDC coin sets that have had fingerprints and greasy marks and some showing signs of someone's attempt at cleaning dust off the polished fields despite being in screw caps.

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I'm struggling to understand something about modern proof sovereigns (i.e. ERII era).  The values seem to be all over the place, the 80's seem to go for low premium, rises for 90's then falls again for the 00's.  Right up until 2015 then a sudden hike, when the mint appear to put their price up with the very fancy packaging.  I assume there's variable mintage but difficult to find (always seem to find the bullion numbers), until the 2004 which is on the RM site. 

From then the mintages look to fall until 2014 when they cut in half!  But that year are cheaper on ebay than the 2015, where the mintage rose 20%.  That makes no sense.  

That rambled on a bit... are the proof mintage figures anywhere and why the cyclical value over the decades?  Are collectors really paying so much more for the package?

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2014 are expensive especially ones like the 1/4 which had pretty low numbers. I have a book with mintage figures in, dunno if it's 100% or not but don't see why it wouldn't be accurate . Some years they just mint more than others I guess maybe for demand they stop producing them half way through a year or something.  

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It is sometimes possible to get rare and valuable coins as "bullion". This is because not all coins are bought by collectors many are bought by those who possibly should not be buying them for many reasons. I get seduced into buying from RM via Telesales - I pay £500 for a special sovereign... I have a bill a few months later and NO cash (close?) and what do i have a £500 fire sale sovereign... I dont know about Silver Forum but i do a web search.... Atkinsons... Baird.... Hatton Garden... 

I have a sovereign to sell how much will you give me for it?  

We can give you spot less 2% for most sovereigns...

I paid £500 for it... I am sorry sir we are bullion dealers and its just gold to us...

SOLD for spot less 3%

Appears online at Spot + 3% and a lucky silver forum member picks it up for MUCH less than its collector value and assumes all coins from the mint are worth 50% less immediately... 

Many do lose money - but mostly the fact a bargain exists for a second is not the value of these coins and is often not repeatable.

Also bear in mind for the most part there will be handling marks or other impairments that mean that the coins are worth what is paid ONLY - however many times you or I can buy a bargain, conserve and grade and make money ultimately from the guy who needed cash and bought at the mint at full price and had to lose in the firesale.

 

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  • 1 month later...
29 minutes ago, Bluenitsuj said:

As a newbie. Would you advise buying full proof sovereigns or cheaper uncirculate ones. I will be buying for investment so are they both a good investment going forward?

I would not advise buying proof sovereigns from the mint unless they are clearly going to sell out quickly and increase in price on the secondary market eg 2017

General issue proofs can be had a lot cheaper in the coming years if you wait for the right deal.

Profile picture with thanks to Carl Vernon

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On 15/11/2018 at 13:03, sovereignsteve said:

I would not advise buying proof sovereigns from the mint unless they are clearly going to sell out quickly and increase in price on the secondary market eg 2017

General issue proofs can be had a lot cheaper in the coming years if you wait for the right deal.

Thank you for your reply. What do you mean  general issue proofs? And if not sovereigns what would you advise as a good investment for someone like me.

 

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On 15/11/2018 at 13:24, Bluenitsuj said:

Thank you for your reply. What do you mean  general issue proofs? And if not sovereigns what would you advise as a good investment for someone like me.

 

General issue proof sovereigns would be those years bearing the standard sovereign design, in other words, most modern sovereigns. The most sought after ones (and consequently more expensive proofs) are those bearing a special design. Those years are 1989, 2002, 2005, 2012, 2017 and perhaps 2018 with its tiny commemorative mark. I started out buying BULLION sovereigns as an INVESTOR. I then switched to buying PROOF sovereigns as a COLLECTOR. When the price of gold increases I'll consider selling my bullion for a profit, but I'll keep my proofs which comprise of my collection. I hope this helps you.

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On 15/11/2018 at 13:24, Bluenitsuj said:

Thank you for your reply. What do you mean  general issue proofs? And if not sovereigns what would you advise as a good investment for someone like me.

 

Another thing to look out for is the mintage figures. The lower the mintage, the scarcer the coin and maybe more demand for it and higher prices on the second hand market.  

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5 hours ago, GoodAsGold said:

General issue proof sovereigns would be those years bearing the standard sovereign design, in other words, most modern sovereigns. The most sought after ones (and consequently more expensive proofs) are those bearing a special design. Those years are 1989, 2002, 2005, 2012, 2017 and perhaps 2018 with its tiny commemorative mark. I started out buying BULLION sovereigns as an INVESTOR. I then switched to buying PROOF sovereigns as a COLLECTOR. When the price of gold increases I'll consider selling my bullion for a profit, but I'll keep my proofs which comprise of my collection. I hope this helps you.

I've pretty much done identical to this. I wonder how many other on here are in the same boat. I had the 2005 and 2017 already and then had to go backfill the others (big dent in wallet)!

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