buying many, get great discount...(sure?)

[Pritchard]

i am sure many of you are used to seeing what i am beginning to notice.
When i am shopping around for gold or silver, i keep getting caught out by 'from'. very annoying. Such as a silver britannia may be 'from £14', but thats if i buy 5000 of them! otherwise its nearer to £16.

 

not wanting to target any particular website. One seen in the screenshot below offer 1/10 gold Brits for £103.07 each ((if you buy 250+! otherwise its about £104 a unit for 20)., or a ''special offer'' bundle of 20 for £2076.20... quick math for you, buying this Special Offer Bundle is actually £20 more expensive. :|

 

i have been looking too at the silver brits and the monster boxes. Unless you are buying in bulk there is a huge commision from shops on these silver coins.
unless someone has found cheaper, i find hatton garden blows everyone else out of the water. a single 1oz Brit from them is about £1.50 cheaper than the unit price from other site, even if you buy 500 coins at once!

 

Side note
with the huge group buy deals ive been seeing from/via BYB, is anyone even buying from online stores at the moment? knocking off that VAT on these imports too further reduces those cost per units.

 

 

 

 

[Pritchard]

Fook,
also sorry - this was supposd to go into Precious metals section, as it isnt just about Gold.

 

[JunkBond]

Be aware that on HGM site vat on silver is added at checkout.

[bluemoon]

The "from" technique used regularly catch me out too, nowadays it's a big red alarm bell as soon as I see it, followed by a roll of the eyes and clicking away from the website. It isn't a nice technique. Wholesale eBay sellers do this a lot. I wish some bullion dealers were a little more classy than that.

[HelpingHands]

6 minutes ago, Pritchard said:

Fook,
also sorry - this was supposd to go into Precious metals section, as it isnt just about Gold.

 

@Pritchard moved it for you

[Pritchard]

7 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

Be aware that on HGM site vat on silver is added at checkout.

yes, i didnt include the VAT in my comparision above.  if i did, the cost per unit for silver Brits is clearing £20 a unit on some sites.
the prices were all pre-VAT

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

It is an annoying technique for sure. I don't know why the online shops deploy those tactics as surely it only creates annoyance once the ploy is revealed. There was another site I was browsing the other day that didn't bother feeling the need to add the VAT on until I had gone 90% through the check out process - that one really annoyed me. The answer though is to just not use these sites. If they can't be upfront about what you'll actually be paying they aren't worth giving your money to.

As for your question about the group deals - now that I am familiar with goldsilver.be, etc and as my partner and I stack together we'll be placing regular orders ourselves. Once we split the shipping and you factor in the lack of VAT it is by far the cheapest way to buy. Other than that I will buy from members here when there is a deal I like and continue to look on eBay. There really is no need to pay the extra that the UK dealers have to charge.

[richatthecroft]

8 minutes ago, Pritchard said:

not wanting to target any particular website. One seen in the screenshot below offer 1/10 gold Brits for £103.07 each ((if you buy 250+! otherwise its about £104 a unit for 20)., or a ''special offer'' bundle of 20 for £2076.20... quick math for you, buying this Special Offer Bundle is actually £20 more expensive. 😐

Buyer beware I guess. But it’s sharp practice in my opinion and easily sussed out with very simple maths. 

I have never understood why there is such meager discounts on multiple buys, I’ve seen dealers selling bundles of 10+ 1oz Gold coins at only pennies less than buying one even on the least popular coins. 

If margins are so tight, surely they haven’t got a business. 

I think if I was in the market for 10+ 1oz Gold Coins I would be on the phone to the dealer, bet the discounts are more forthcoming? 

 

[Pritchard]

Yep. agreed, make the call.

At time or typing, (per Oz)
Silver Spot - £10.90
Single new 1oz Brit from a mainstream website: £16.60
- roughly 35% above spot!
Plus VAT - total £19.92. Not far off double the spot value.

 

Comparision to Gold (using the same website for fairness).
Gold Spot - £918
Single new 1oz Brit - £967.50
- roughly 5% above spot.


With Silver trading so high over spot, there should be scope (in my opinion) for some proper discounts for bulk buys. I know some of this 35% will of course be for the making of the coin, the profit of the firm selling,etc etc. But when you see the (huge) difference in markup to Gold, it does make you question it.

[Pritchard]

...Actually, based on those numbers.

the seller only has to sell about 9 silver coins at £16 each to make as much profit as selling 1 gold coin at £967! Wow.
that is very back to front.

 

 

[JunkBond]

That is where the money is because not everyone has £1000's to spend on 1oz gold with any great frequency. So silver is the bread and butter.

[richatthecroft]

43 minutes ago, Pritchard said:

 

Yep. agreed, make the call.

 

...now where’s that phone...I wish! 😀

So, is the moral to this story to sell Silver and buy Gold? 

I’m very new to PM’s and have a hell of a lot to learn, but the evidence I have in the short time I’ve being buying Silver to either stack, collect or flip, is to forget the nonsense of buying ‘as close to spot as possible’ but buy sensibly. Silver is never close to Spot, even VAT free. 

Gamble on your own research and judge what might do well in the future.  Forget the premium paid and buy Silver that’s in heavy demand, or have a perceived rareity- Perth Swan/Emu for example. Look for potential of upside in everything you buy. 

Easier said than done, but the evidence I have is that coins in demand defy any downturn in Spot price but I guess you have to be aware of coins that only have very short term impetus- privateers being an example, whereas, QB’s keep defying logic (for now!) particularly the current premiums on the huge mintage 2oz Lion, the 40% less mintage of the Lion, the Griffin and the Dragon now taking off with even lower mintage.  

Will the Bull be the key coin of the set? (a dog of a coin in my opinion!).

Having said all of the above, and what scuppers me, is the collector within- collecting goes against any restraint, common sense or logic one might have. 😉

 

[watchesandwhisky]

37 minutes ago, Pritchard said:

...Actually, based on those numbers.

the seller only has to sell about 9 silver coins at £16 each to make as much profit as selling 1 gold coin at £967! Wow.
that is very back to front.

 

 

I dont think so, Silver is a pain to store in large amount, its heavy and there would be far more work involved. 

[Pritchard]

1 minute ago, Madstacks said:

I dont think so, Silver is a pain to store in large amount, its heavy and there would be far more work involved. 

well, my numbers were based on all things being equal. maybe i shouldve said 'markup' instead of 'profit' : )

fair point though, i can see storage costs (and therfore transport costs) woud be higher per unit.

[JunkBond]

8 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

 

Having said all of the above, and what scuppers me, is the collector within- collecting goes against any restraint, common sense or logic one might have. 😉

 

Afraid so.

[Pete]

I too get annoyed at our UK dealers showing headline prices "from .. " meaning you have to part with many tens of £k and with silver or platinum add 20% VAT at the end. Who are they really trying to target with this misleading tactic ?

I went through a laborious process recently on a well known site, registering and giving my shoe size etc and only at the very last minute before pressing buy, the VAT appeared so making the purchase total crazy compared to EU suppliers. This site showed VAT to be added to silver but not to Platinum.

[Uksilverstackers]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

I too get annoyed at our UK dealers showing headline prices "from .. " meaning you have to part with many tens of £k and with silver or platinum add 20% VAT at the end. Who are they really trying to target with this misleading tactic ?

I went through a laborious process recently on a well known site, registering and giving my shoe size etc and only at the very last minute before pressing buy, the VAT appeared so making the purchase total crazy compared to EU suppliers. This site showed VAT to be added to silver but not to Platinum.

Oh dont get us started on VAT on everything except gold. Why is that then, other than a total UK rip off, especially on legal tender coins...

 Secondhand silver is supposed to be VAT free, but I've not noticed a main dealer selling secondhand silver at spot + 5%, like gold...

[RoughDog]

I know and from what I can see on their buy back pages most will give spot price minus % for gold or spot price for silver regardless of rarity or desirability.

I bet they won't sell a mint second hand Perth Mint 2oz OX or a 1oz Tiger at the same price as other lunar coins. 

They have to make a living and pay running costs and wages etc.

So if you know your coins are undesirable and just bullion it's OK to sell to a dealer.  If it is a more desirable coin that can be sold for much more you have to sell it yourself.

 

[Bullionaire]

6 hours ago, Pritchard said:

i am sure many of you are used to seeing what i am beginning to notice.
When i am shopping around for gold or silver, i keep getting caught out by 'from'. very annoying. Such as a silver britannia may be 'from £14', but thats if i buy 5000 of them! otherwise its nearer to £16.

Agree, it is annoying. Its not like I'm going to see the lower price, go in to the page, and then decide to buy 500 coins to get the lower price when I only wanted 1 to begin with...

I really like that the European mint don't do this. They give you the price for 1 and then in small writing say "as low as €x.xx" for multiples. That's how it should be done.

[Seasider]

It is a practice which annoyed me at first but I confess I still use the dealer you are talking about.  However I did find one dealer who was an honourable exception to the practice giving a price including everything including shipping and then specifying a discount if you buy more than one coin.  He goes under the name silvertrader.uk.  

[RoughDog]

I wonder what would happen if we all got together for a group order to buy a monster box or two.

Pick the most popular coin and all chip in to get that monster box.  Surely that would be the cheapest way to get silver.

🤩😁

[999magnum]

"As Low As". I cant flippin' stand it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!