Hello, I’m a new stacker.

[ILikeBars]

Nice to be on this forum. I have some questions, though. 

 

What is an acceptable premium for silver (and gold)? Often times, if you do the math, you’re paying well over 10% over spot, and into 20% or more over if you use a card, when you buy from trustworthy sites like APMEX. Where do you guys generally get your metals? Also, do LCS’ normally know for sure that their silver is real and fine, and not filled with tungsten or something? I have no tester and I would want to be sure, which is the main reason I buy from APMEX. 

 

Thanks for for the help, nice to meet you all.

[matrawr]

Hi and welcome with regards to the authenticity I would definitely get a neodymium magnet and small scales as a minimum and if you're looking at getting popular coins and download an app called bullion test there is a small one off charge.

[Agpanda]

Hi and welcome to the forum

From your post I assume that you are in US

So I let US members advice you

[MickD]

Hi and welcome from Edinburgh.

[caloundracats]

Hello from the UK. As@Agpanda  mentions, as you are in the US, it's probably better that people your side of the pond advise you on where to purchase.

[Nmount911]

I just found this forum but ive been buying pms for a few months now myself. I personally avoid high premiums pieces usually unless theres a big dip in spot like we have now. At first get the at spot deals from the online dealers and you can get over 50 ounces at or near spot including shipping. Some people say avoid ebay but once you know how to spot fakes its a great placr to pick up some great deals. Also i know my lcs have  sigma machine and test all of their pms using that so buying from them is perfectly fine. Just imagine if they got caught selling fakes, they would lose all their business and reputation. Just find out what you like to stack and only buy what you can afford to!

[Bimetallic]

9 hours ago, ILikeBars said:

Nice to be on this forum. I have some questions, though. 

 

What is an acceptable premium for silver (and gold)? Often times, if you do the math, you’re paying well over 10% over spot, and into 20% or more over if you use a card, when you buy from trustworthy sites like APMEX. Where do you guys generally get your metals? Also, do LCS’ normally know for sure that their silver is real and fine, and not filled with tungsten or something? I have no tester and I would want to be sure, which is the main reason I buy from APMEX. 

 

Thanks for for the help, nice to meet you all.

Greetings. If you're buying from APMEX, you're overpaying. It's important to be disciplined about the margins you're paying because they eat into your return, if any, down the road. I have an article coming out soon comparing the prices of all the major online dealers (in North America). (I use a few different purchasing scenarios, not just one item or product.)

The best prices tend to be at Silver.com, BGASC, SD Bullion (for large orders since they have high shipping charges), and maybe Gainesville Coins. You can get significantly lower prices from those places than from APMEX. They're all major dealers who have been around for at least a few years – you don't need to worry about getting what you paid for or something. JM Bullion is another large dealer (they own Silver.com), and they almost always beat APMEX on price. Buy from APMEX when they have some kind of promo or sale, sometimes on eBay. But most of the time you're wasting precious money – remember, it's the same exact product whoever you buy it from (e.g. 2018 Eagles), so buy from whoever is offering the lowest price.

[ILikeBars]

2 hours ago, Bimetallic said:

Greetings. If you're buying from APMEX, you're overpaying. It's important to be disciplined about the margins you're paying because they eat into your return, if any, down the road. I have an article coming out soon comparing the prices of all the major online dealers (in North America). (I use a few different purchasing scenarios, not just one item or product.)

The best prices tend to be at Silver.com, BGASC, SD Bullion (for large orders since they have high shipping charges), and maybe Gainesville Coins. You can get significantly lower prices from those places than from APMEX. They're all major dealers who have been around for at least a few years – you don't need to worry about getting what you paid for or something. JM Bullion is another large dealer (they own Silver.com), and they almost always beat APMEX on price. Buy from APMEX when they have some kind of promo or sale, sometimes on eBay. But most of the time you're wasting precious money – remember, it's the same exact product whoever you buy it from (e.g. 2018 Eagles), so buy from whoever is offering the lowest price.

Wow, so far I’ve checked out silver.com and it’s easy to find some good deals! Thanks a lot!!

[Tak1986]

So I'm a very new stacker as well...   I have been comparing prices with all major sites and bunch of YouTube videos and wondered why no one mentions silver.com. even when they dont offer free shipping their prices are unbeatable and have a very good selection. Not as much as let's say apmex but for me being a new stacker not having anything. They have all the coins and bars a new stacker would want.

[SILVERFINGER]

[lmwstamps]

The acceptability of the premium depends on the purpose you have for buying the coin.  If you are buying just to stack, the lower the premium the better.  With silver currently in the $15.50 range, the lowest prices I've seen have been $16 per oz (about 3.5% premium).  If you are buying to resell, then there is a little more flexibility in the premiums.  I've bought bullion in the recent environment for $18 per oz ( 16% premium) thinking that I can sell the bullion for more than that.  If you are buying to collect (which I don't do much of), then its totally up to you.  Your desire to own the coin, how readily available it is, and the level of your patience will dictate how much you are willing to pay at that moment.

Being from the US, I can say that by far the best prices I've found are at coin shows and local coin shops.  I have bought online before from APMEX, Gainsville Coins, and Silver.com since I was looking for certain items, but did so knowing that the premiums were high. With regard to fakes, the best defense is knowledge and familiarity.  Research what fakes are being produced and how to identify them.  I stack mostly silver with a smattering of gold, but here are some guidelines that I tend to go by:

For silver:

Learn what an ounce of pure silver feels like and looks like.  Many of the fakes are going to be silver plated.  Silver plating just has a different look to it.  Many of the fakes are going to reproduce well known coins and rounds such as ASE's, Maple Leafs, Engelhard rounds, Sunshine products, etc.  If you are purchasing those type of rounds, be a little more cautious.  Fewer fakes are merely generic rounds or bars.  Most of these that I've seen are of the plated variety and the designs and look of them are just "off".  I second what Matrawr said about a scale and bullion test app.  That's a low cost way to check for most fakes.  I own both, plus a Sigma Analytics PMV, but have found that I rarely used them prior to purchasing.  I've used them primarily to verify purchases.  If something seems off or doesn't feel right with either the product or the seller, just walk away.  I prefer purchasing in person, so these are the guidelines I go by.  First and foremost, knowledge and familiarity are the keys.

For gold:

Tungsten is used mostly in larger bars.  It's not cost effective to fill gold coins 1 oz or less with tungsten, so you don't have to worry about those type of fakes on smaller gold coins.  What you do have to worry about is gold plating and fakes/forgeries.  Some of the same guidelines apply for gold as well.  Fakes tend to be of better known items such as PAMP bars or gold maple leafs.  Learn what is being and has been faked and be on the lookout for those.  Some fakes/forgeries may not matter if you are a stacker.  In the 1960's, Saudi Arabia produced fakes of US and worldwide gold coins using the correct amount and purity of real gold.  These fakes were done in order to get the gold out of the country.  As a collector, you might not want it, but as a stacker, it's still gold in weight and purity it's supposed to be.  As with silver, knowledge and familiarity are the keys.

Hope this helps.

[SilverSkoobz]

My LCS premiums are way lower on gold than silver.  Not sure if that is the same for anyone else but I typically buy silver online and gold in person.

Since I’d say June of 2018 I refuse to pay over 20 bucks for an oz of silver (USD).  If I do it’s for a coin I think will do exceptionally well but I’m a weight stacker at heart so I’m not really going for collectibles, just the government issued coins like ASE, maple leafs etc...

even today, paying anything over 17 is insane if you are like me and want weight.

[lmwstamps]

I only have a couple of LCS in my area.  In one, premiums are high on everything so I rarely go there anymore.  In the other, it varies, but I would tend to agree with you.  It may be, though, that this is more a function of the cost of the item rather than the metal.  Percentage wise, you will pay more for 1 Oz silver rounds and fractional gold than you will for larger silver bars and 1 Oz gold rounds/bars.  The reason for this may simply be a lower demand for higher priced items.  Not everyone can afford spending $1200+ on a 1 Oz gold bar, but most people can afford spending $17 or $18 on a 1 Oz round.

I completely agree with you on your price points.  There is so much available sub $17 right now if you are patient that there is no need to "chase the coin".  It has to be a special coin/round to induce me to pay more than $18 per oz.  On a few occasions I've had "buyers remorse" due to buying something at a price higher than I should have.  I'm still learning to be patient and wait for the right opportunities.  It has to be the right coin AT the right price and not just the right coin.  I constantly have to remind myself that if I go out to purchase PM's and don't find anything worthwhile to purchase that it's OK to come home with the same amount of cash I left with.  There will be other opportunities.