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Another thing to factor into things is, at one time precious metal stacking was just done by the elite, banks, and governments, now the ordinary man on the street like myself has got into this trend in the past 5 years, solely because of my small scale stacking, my daughter now stacks (has same amount as me now in only 2 years) my boss has been buying silver coins for her grandson to hopefully help towards his 1st car/university/1st house deposit in the distant future, several of my friends have bought the odd coin like the US silver dollars, I think there is more collectors/stackers now than there has ever been and this must put up demand eventually.

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3 hours ago, bluemoon said:

If you're in the EU then the 20% VAT must be factored into the GSR. Then you can decide if it's a good deal at any one time. One way around the issue is to sell back to places like Gumtree where you can sell back the VAT too without having to take the hit. It would be flushing your money down the toilet if you bought from a bullion dealer then sold back to the same dealers, because they don't buy back the VAT.

Buy from estonia. Vat free. The only way to go when in Europe. And it works. European mint is perfect for all vat countries., 

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1 hour ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

what do the figures say

https://www.silverinstitute.org/silver-supply-demand/

(for those who believe the silver institute is biased, feel free

to supply a link to more reliable data)

 

over a 10 year period 2008-17, silver demand was broadly

flat and silver supply up by ~10%. solar now makes up ~10%

of total demand. solar growth accounts for ~2% per year in

2015-17(growth in total silver demand accountable to solar).

it didn't really move much in the years prior to that.

each solar installation have a investment period of between

10-25 years before they are scrapped and a new one is

required. this means that almost all the years solar demand

on silver have been on new installations and very few

replacements. let's say new solar installation account for

continued 2% growth each year for the next 3 years. in the

bigger picture I would not call that 6% accumulated growth

over 3 years exponential. by comparison gold is mined at

~2000 tonnes per year(~1-2% growth). as gold is not consumed

most of the previous years gold is still there. so new buys are

required for the newly mined gold. the gold price have been rising

since 2015 so it can be estimated that over the same 2 year

period gold has had growth in demand of ~1-2%.

 

HH

Now you make me want to go for gold hehe. I need to do some serious research before I spend my money. And I need to also think about strengthening my crypto portfolio maybe.... First world problems right here. 

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18 minutes ago, SILVERFINGER said:

Another thing to factor into things is, at one time precious metal stacking was just done by the elite, banks, and governments, now the ordinary man on the street like myself has got into this trend in the past 5 years, solely because of my small scale stacking, my daughter now stacks (has same amount as me now in only 2 years) my boss has been buying silver coins for her grandson to hopefully help towards his 1st car/university/1st house deposit in the distant future, several of my friends have bought the odd coin like the US silver dollars, I think there is more collectors/stackers now than there has ever been and this must put up demand eventually.

 

if it's still true that 90% of the wealth is held by the top 10%

of the population, then more people buying pm's won't

make much of a difference. what you need is large amounts

of wealth flowing into it from the few to move the price up

by a significant amount. alternatively if everyone in the uk

each bought 1 extra ounce of silver per year that would

raise the demand for silver by 60 million ounces or ~6%.

my guess is the number of people interested in silver is

still not that big a % of the population. many buyers of

silver bars and coins do it to sell on at a later date. this

would make it non consumption buying (similar to how

gold just does the rounds).

 

HH 

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I would suggest go slow and go low risk to begin with.

in the uk that would be the gold sovereign. any low

spread highly liquid comparable coin should do.

work it out as you go along and use the experience you

gain from buying to help you. the low spread in gold

means that any losses you take from mistakes made

will be lower(in % terms). gold is usually better at moving

more of your wealth to where you want, when you want

to do it. silver have windows of the best times to buy

and to sell(these can be over a decade apart).

 

HH

Edited by HawkHybrid

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Don't over complicate things.

You can't faff around "trading" between gold and silver depending on what the GSR is. Just read as much as you can BEFORE you buy anything, try to decide WHY you're buying and what your priorities are.

The basic is stacking the metals purely on premium to spot. However, if you want a little fun in your new hobby, you could try a little buying and selling to make more money to stack metal. Or, you might decide to add a little more interest by collecting some stuff.

You probably won't decide your final strategy until you've been at the game a while so try not to go gung-ho in one direction only to realise your mistake and then have to sell to change direction; always a loser.

Maybe buy a little silver bullion and a sovereign or two. I'm biased  but you can't go wrong with the latter as a cornerstone of your stack/collection. Then buy the odd semi-numismatic silver piece to see how you like them, do your research first, or just buy what appeals to you. Go slowly and develop your own strategy, you'll be happy you did.

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22 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Don't over complicate things.

You can't faff around "trading" between gold and silver depending on what the GSR is. Just read as much as you can BEFORE you buy anything, try to decide WHY you're buying and what your priorities are.

The basic is stacking the metals purely on premium to spot. However, if you want a little fun in your new hobby, you could try a little buying and selling to make more money to stack metal. Or, you might decide to add a little more interest by collecting some stuff.

You probably won't decide your final strategy until you've been at the game a while so try not to go gung-ho in one direction only to realise your mistake and then have to sell to change direction; always a loser.

Maybe buy a little silver bullion and a sovereign or two. I'm biased  but you can't go wrong with the latter as a cornerstone of your stack/collection. Then buy the odd semi-numismatic silver piece to see how you like them, do your research first, or just buy what appeals to you. Go slowly and develop your own strategy, you'll be happy you did.

Thx mate. I think I'm slowly going in a direction. I'm doing it for fun. And for the long run. I will be picky on both my silver and gold. And collect what I enjoy and find nice. Anything I buy now is gonna be cool in 30 years anyway lol. 

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I've never really looked at my own ratio before but I actually have a 20:1 ratio of silver to gold by weight.

I probably shouldn't say it on this forum but I've never really been that drawn to silver.

Part of the problem for me is the high margin on nice looking silver coins that seem to end up being worth less than spot, and that's if they don't suffer from milk spot.

The main problem for me however is just how little it's worth. Show someone a 1oz gold coin and when they ask how much it's worth they're justifiably impressed. Show them a 1oz silver coin and when they find out it's not worth much more than a tenner they're pretty amazed too... but not in a good way. You needs a huge weight of he stuff to hold any real value.

Maybe silver will gain more than gold in the near-ish future (which is why I buy some) but I just can't resist gold (or platinum for that matter). :)

 

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On 20/06/2018 at 16:08, SILVERFINGER said:

Another thing to factor into things is, at one time precious metal stacking was just done by the elite, banks, and governments, now the ordinary man on the street like myself has got into this trend in the past 5 years, solely because of my small scale stacking, my daughter now stacks (has same amount as me now in only 2 years) my boss has been buying silver coins for her grandson to hopefully help towards his 1st car/university/1st house deposit in the distant future, several of my friends have bought the odd coin like the US silver dollars, I think there is more collectors/stackers now than there has ever been and this must put up demand eventually.

On the contrary. One look at silver bullion sales will tell you that stackers are a much rarer breed now than at any time in the last 5 years. 

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1 hour ago, vand said:

On the contrary. One look at silver bullion sales will tell you that stackers are a much rarer breed now than at any time in the last 5 years. 

Bullion sales dont equate to how many stackers there is, there maybe more smaller buyers than big buyers out there at the moment, 5 of my circle of friends/relatives have started buying silver, gold or platinum that were not less than 5 years ago, some of them have got their friends/family into it also.

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9 hours ago, SILVERFINGER said:

Bullion sales dont equate to how many stackers there is, there maybe more smaller buyers than big buyers out there at the moment, 5 of my circle of friends/relatives have started buying silver, gold or platinum that were not less than 5 years ago, some of them have got their friends/family into it also.

I would say exactly the opposite is much more likely. The people who continue to stack are probably consistent long time stackers who understand the value of monthly cost averaging and continue to buy in sizeable quantities, rather than casual momentum buyers who may by a few dozen ounces at the peak.

Edited by vand

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57 minutes ago, vand said:

I would say exactly the opposite is much more likely. The people who continue to stack are probably consistent long time stackers who understand the value of monthly cost averaging and continue to buy in sizeable quantities, rather than casual momentum buyers who may by a few dozen ounces at the peak.

 

Do you have any decent websites/links that show worldwide pm consumption/charts etc ?, I have lots for prices but nothing for how much is actually being sold per country.

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11 hours ago, vand said:

On the contrary. One look at silver bullion sales will tell you that stackers are a much rarer breed now than at any time in the last 5 years. 

Certainly I have noticed there are less stackers now. IMO people have moved over to bitcoin and yeid assets.  I think commodities are the place to be since 2015. 

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1 hour ago, SILVERFINGER said:

 

Do you have any decent websites/links that show worldwide pm consumption/charts etc ?, I have lots for prices but nothing for how much is actually being sold per country.

 

draw your own conclusions!

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Yeah but thats just one country and type of coin really, dont in any way shape or form think I am disagreeing with you for any personal reasons or arguements sake, nor that my opinions are set in stone, I am open minded especially when shown evidence to the contrary, I like a good debate with anyone who speaks sense and backs it up, like yourself.

Yeah I forgot about crypto whatnots, I dont trust them at all, if I dont hold it, or its not in something well established like a bank I am suspicious of it, we have seen cryptos lose a lot of value recently.

Is less people buying pm (if this is right) a good thing for those of us still doing it or a bad thing, will it keep prices down due to lack of demand or will businesses put up the price to make up for lack of sales ?

 

Edited by SILVERFINGER

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On 20/06/2018 at 08:14, SILVERFINGER said:

Invest in some lead also, just incase someone wants to take your shiney stack away from you :lol:

Good point. Already got that particular investment taken care of.

Edited by RacerCool

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4 hours ago, SILVERFINGER said:

What calibre ? I just bought a nice .577/450

Oh, this one's toward the opposite end of the spectrum, ha ha.  It's a small .38 Special five-shot revolver.  Easy for carrying and stashing out of sight. It's the only one I have, right now. Everything else, I've sold off over the years, but a friend is wanting to sell his AK-47.  Not sure I want to spend that much right now on anything but traveling, saving, or stacking.  But I probably should.  Still going back and forth on that.

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14 hours ago, RacerCool said:

Oh, this one's toward the opposite end of the spectrum, ha ha.  It's a small .38 Special five-shot revolver.  Easy for carrying and stashing out of sight. It's the only one I have, right now. Everything else, I've sold off over the years, but a friend is wanting to sell his AK-47.  Not sure I want to spend that much right now on anything but traveling, saving, or stacking.  But I probably should.  Still going back and forth on that.

Ahh I see, I am at no 30 at the moment, from pistols to anti tank guns.

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11 minutes ago, SILVERFINGER said:

anti tank guns

Very impressive...hiding some AT-4s over there as well? Would have liked to get a suppressed .50 cal Barrett M107A1, but no good access to 1000 yard ranges here. Sticking to short and silenced SBRs in 5.56 and 300BLK for now!

Edited by CadmiumGreen

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