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MickB

Fake silver eagle from eBay.

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After getting a result on eBay last week on a proof American silver eagle at a cheap price, I had a look at other not so clear listings to see if I could find another bargain.

I paid £15 odd for this one plus postage, which came to just over £17. It was advertised as BU and also proof and only had a grainy photo.

Thought it'd be worth a punt but when it arrived it was instantly noticeable it's a fake.

I've asked the seller for a refund but he's asked me to post it back to him 2nd. class recorded as he replied; Hi there, It should be genuine, as the supplier that I got them from in America assured me they were genuine giving me a certificate of authenticity. If you want to return it to me by 2nd class signed for. On safe return (so that I can take up the issue with this American supplier) I will give you a full refund. Kind regards.

I know I should have avoided it considering I can easily buy elsewhere the genuine product but as I was at work bored I put on a bid.

Maybe I should take it to my local trading standards office as I don't think eBay will back me up.

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3 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

Put a return request in via ebay and the seller will buy your postage.

You should not be out of pocket for this. 

Didn't think it was allowed to post counterfeit coins. Should I file the edge to expose the brass so he can see it's a clear fake and then it can't be sold on?

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10 minutes ago, MickB said:

Didn't think it was allowed to post counterfeit coins. Should I file the edge to expose the brass so he can see it's a clear fake and then it can't be sold on?

Best just to open a claim via ebay - do it above board from your side then there is no doubt. 

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Interestingly the user id address is different to the returns postage address. Same surname but different first name.

I've requested ebay contact me by phone to tell me what to do next.

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You need to open a claim in the e-Bay resolution centre or perhaps also PayPal.
This is a straightforward process but they stick to a relatively long timeframe schedule.
Always add photos to back up your claim - weight, diameter, thickness etc.
Whatever you do make sure you return the item using a tracked / signed-for service.
You will not be compensated for loss otherwise and the seller can always claim it wasn't received.
Do not pay for return postage as you will find it difficult to get reimbursed so follow the procedure to get a return postage label.
There was a time when PayPal offered to refund returns so check.
Sorry for a little vagueness as it has been a while since I went through the process myself but i did get caught out paying for Special Delivery on an expensive item when the seller should have paid in advance under the small print.

Just out of interest - do you know how to measure specific gravity ?
Give it a try to determine if the coin is silver or just plated brass.
I wouldn't file it as the seller will not accept its return stating you damaged it and that would open another long-winded dispute.

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Out of curiosity can you send ebay/paypal videos? Especially if it's a seller I haven't dealt with before I started to record the unboxing with my and their address being shown of course I'm not going to upload it in the public domain but just seems the best way to say right I've got a video of an item I bought and as you can see it's whatever you find wrong with it.

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@Pete I haven't carried out a gravity test as I had a look at the orientation of the faces and I'm sure this is wrong. They should be upside down to each other if spun from left to right.

@matrawr I never videoed the opening as it was just a cheap coin but I should do the next time, just to save all the hassle if it ever happened again, God forbid!

eagle face.jpg

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I am sure that if you buy something like this and it turns out to be counterfeit, you can take it to a jeweller and get them to test it and ask if they mind writing on headed paper that it is not genuine then copy that and email it to ebay.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that seller offers the same coin up for sale again as genuine, make sure you leave him negative feedback after getting your refund to warn other potential buyers.

I would sooner pay a couple of £ extra and buy from a reputable seller, that have stress of it all, the hassle and cost and time wasted having to send it back, not just your postage but any petrol, parking etc, if its too good to be true it often is.

As for filing it, its possible it may not be brass but another base metal that could be silver coloured.

Edited by SILVERFINGER

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12 minutes ago, SILVERFINGER said:

I am sure that if you buy something like this and it turns out to be counterfeit, you can take it to a jeweller and get them to test it and ask if they mind writing on headed paper that it is not genuine then copy that and email it to ebay.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that seller offers the same coin up for sale again as genuine, make sure you leave him negative feedback after getting your refund to warn other potential buyers.

I would sooner pay a couple of £ extra and buy from a reputable seller, that have stress of it all, the hassle and cost and time wasted having to send it back, not just your postage but any petrol, parking etc, if its too good to be true it often is.

As for filing it, its possible it may not be brass but another base metal that could be silver coloured.

EBay rang me back after I requested they contact me and told me to take it to a jeweller to be tested. I'll ask my local bullion dealer to prove what I already know and that evidence will save me posting it back to the seller.

The seller contacted me to say he has sold plenty of these and was unaware they are fake. He said he'll refund me tonight but still wants the coin back to take up matters with the seller in America he originally bought them from. I did tell him I would take it to trading standards so I guess he wants to lose the evidence.

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6 minutes ago, MickB said:

EBay rang me back after I requested they contact me and told me to take it to a jeweller to be tested. I'll ask my local bullion dealer to prove what I already know and that evidence will save me posting it back to the seller.

The seller contacted me to say he has sold plenty of these and was unaware they are fake. He said he'll refund me tonight but still wants the coin back to take up matters with the seller in America he originally bought them from. I did tell him I would take it to trading standards so I guess he wants to lose the evidence.

Why should you do the leg work? I would of said the diamentions and orientation is wrong so it can not be real they do this in the hope you can not be arsed. They are a massive platform for fake goods in general and it's not in their interest to agree

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It is illegal to send counterfeit items by royal mail , by asking you to return it eBay are asking you to break the law.

When I purchased some counterfeit vaping gear , eBay told me to return it . I pointed the illegality out to them and then they asked me to supply photos and why I thought the item was fake , which I did . They then sent me a form to confirm I had destroyed the item and gave me a full refund without returning the items

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I'm going to wait for him to refund me and leave it at that.

I'll then destroy the coin and post the photos on here. It makes me wonder how many he got away with selling if mine was the last one he had?

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Take everything he says with a pinch of salt, I am in no doubt he knows full well what he is selling, I have seen these crooks selling on ebay in this way for years, they are happy to  refund you straight away, would like you to return the item (evidence against them)  so they can contact their supplier (relist it), I have a friend who makes jewellry, he bought some turquoise from ebay, when he broke it into smaller pieces to shape to fit something he was working on it turned out to be some much cheaper stone that had been dyed and the only the outside few milimetres were turquoise coloured, the centre was white, he contacted the seller, same booker fiction prize bullshit that you got, sent it back, seller gave him his money and postage back, so a week later he got his mate to buy same item from the seller, the seller sent the same fake garbage and gave the same booker fiction prize bullshit to him when challenged about the fake, between the two of them and their evidence they managed to get the crook closed down on ebay.

Edited by SILVERFINGER

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17 minutes ago, MickB said:

I'm going to wait for him to refund me and leave it at that.

I'll then destroy the coin and post the photos on here. It makes me wonder how many he got away with selling if mine was the last one he had?

Send it to CCT cyber curtain twitcher on youtube, he destroys them in inventive ways :lol:

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7 minutes ago, MickB said:

@silverfinger He has more than likely bought a job lot from here as it has the same capsule.

https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20180613105800&SearchText=2014+silver+eagle+coin

 

They do sell fakes in job lots too :lol: 

Remember these things when buying, dont buy when you are feeling ill, very happy, rushed, bored, because it will cloud your judgement, I only buy guns when my depression kicks in now, if I buy them when I am happy, ill, bored I end up buying something that isnt right or my OCD will kick in later after I looked more carefully and I will just end up selling it :rolleyes:

Edited by SILVERFINGER

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9 minutes ago, SILVERFINGER said:

They do sell fakes in job lots too :lol: 

Remember these things when buying, dont buy when you are feeling ill, very happy, rushed, bored, because it will cloud your judgement, I only buy guns when my depression kicks in now, if I buy them when I am happy, ill, bored I end up buying something that isnt right or my OCD will kick in later after I looked more carefully and I will just end up selling it :rolleyes:

Never buy when drunk either. A work colleague once had an email asking when he was going to pay for a Raleigh Chopper he bid on but had no recollection of bidding for it. :lol:

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4 hours ago, MickB said:

Thought it'd be worth a punt but when it arrived it was instantly noticeable it's a fake.

Is there a way of recognizing these coins when you only have the photos on ebay (if there are proper ones on there?). Could you spot the fake without measurements, besides the sides being the wrong way?

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6 minutes ago, engire said:

Is there a way of recognizing these coins when you only have the photos on ebay (if there are proper ones on there?). Could you spot the fake without measurements, besides the sides being the wrong way?

If the only photo posted was much clearer then I wouldn't have bid on it. You can compare images with the coin on bullion dealer websites and Google which show the finer detail. There are websites which point out what to look for on counterfeit coins. I only bid on it as the previous one I bought turned out to be a bargain with not a good description and not really any good photos but this was with another seller. I thought it was worth the risk and i got lucky but got caught out with the second one.

Usually by owning known genuine coins you can compare them side by side.

Edited by MickB

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3 hours ago, MickB said:

@Pete I haven't carried out a gravity test as I had a look at the orientation of the faces and I'm sure this is wrong. They should be upside down to each other if spun from left to right.

@matrawr I never videoed the opening as it was just a cheap coin but I should do the next time, just to save all the hassle if it ever happened again, God forbid!

eagle face.jpg

That photo is also a good idea to do with the morgans! Thanks for the idea :)

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