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Nazi Silver


SamGibsonBJJ

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On 06/06/2018 at 21:43, sixgun said:

 

As the official independent Red Cross audit shows 271k died in all the camps from all causes i am at a loss as to where these figures of millions come from.

 

On 06/06/2018 at 21:43, sixgun said:

Agreed Eugenics was practiced quite widely in the period in many countries. This is conveniently denied and swept under the carpet. The elite were more open about these activities in those days. No doubt they will start again given half a chance. The most avid proponents were the US where 32 states passed legislation on forced sterilisation. This carried on into the 1970's. There was The Oregon Board of Eugenics, (renamed the Board of Social Protection) in existence until 1983

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sterilization-united-states_us_568f35f2e4b0c8beacf68713

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#United_States

i have spent several years looking into these topics as i have a keen interest in State and corporate propaganda. If you look at footage (no pun intended) of Goebbels, the German Minister of Propaganda, he was a cripple - he must have slipped through the net.

My research showed that 'The Official International Red Cross records reveal the actual Concentration Camp total death toll was 271,301. These records had been sealed and guarded since the end of WWII at Arolsen, Germany, '  http://monamontgomery.com/products/271304.htm

US Pathology Services did many autopsies in the camps they liberated and pretty much found the corpses had died of typhus. The British Army burnt Belsen down as a means of dealing with the typhus epidemic.

As the official independent Red Cross audit shows 271k died in all the camps from all causes i am at a loss as to where these figures of millions come from.

 

50 minutes ago, augur said:

I don't think anyone in this thread has denied the Holocaust. Any suffering and death of any people in any number is unacceptable and shameful

I also start to wonder about the intentions of the threat operator @SamGibsonBJJ

 

 

Only 271k died and they all died of typhus , I would say that's pretty clear denial .

Using http://www.ihr.org a well known group of deniers as a source , and saying Wikipedia is Israeli propoganda yet using it when it suits.

Maybe it's just my programming ???

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38 minutes ago, daz said:

Only 271k died and they all died of typhus , I would say that's pretty clear denial .

Using http://www.ihr.org a well known group of deniers as a source , and saying Wikipedia is Israeli propoganda yet using it when it suits.

Maybe it's just my programming ???

The International Red Cross visited the camps. From my research there was no issue with them visiting the camps to assess the conditions. They recorded data which is now available which show the death toll at the camps from all causes was 271k.

I stated in my post it was the death toll from all causes. It is not my documentation, it is the International Red Cross data. 

I did not say anywhere that all deaths were due to typhus. What i said was the US Army pathology services did autopsies and the majority of the corpses examined died of typhus. Dr Charles Larsen is the most notable pathologist in this area. He was assigned to the US Army’s Judge Advocate General’s Department as part of a US War Crimes Investigation Team. He found typhus and no cases of poison gas. At the Ernst Zundel trial in Toronto, Dr Russell Barton gave evidence. He was a volunteer medical student at the time with the British Red Cross attended the Belsen camp. He stated “Thousands of prisoners who died at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp during World War II weren’t deliberately starved to death, but died from a rash of diseases.” He was referring to typhus. The British Army burnt Belsen to the ground b/c they could not contain the typhus. Death rates at the camp increased after the British took the camp over. The US Army had to make special preparations before they went into Europe because of the threat of typhus.

Now you clearly have this thing about 'denial'. What exactly is being denied by stating the fact that Europe was ravaged by epidemics of typhus, as is often the case in wartime? 

What exactly is being denied by citing the independently compiled and securely stored data of the International Red Cross?

What exactly do you mean when you say denial? It seems to me denial is anything that doesn't suit your 'programming'.

Wikipedia is open to public editing. Clearly Israel likes to see wikipedia content that is pro-Zionist and pro-Israel. There are additionally very active groups which patrol the internet making sure the right message goes out and content which is not desired gets flagged and if possible taken down. This is a well known fact. The Jewish Internet Defense Force for example would be one that ensures the right message is available at all times. A website like Institute for Historical Review doesn't put out the right message according to organisations like the JIDF so you can be sure they do not get a good press from the controlled media.

Always cast your vote - Spoil your ballot slip. Put 'Spoilt Ballot - I do not consent.' These votes are counted. If you do not do this you are consenting to the tyranny. None of them are fit for purpose. 
A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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31 minutes ago, daz said:

Only 271k died and they all died of typhus , I would say that's pretty clear denial .

Using http://www.ihr.org a well known group of deniers as a source , and saying Wikipedia is Israeli propoganda yet using it when it suits.

Maybe it's just my programming ???

You may remain on your assumed position of moral high ground, if you wish. 

sixgun has been pointing out conflicting evidence with the official historic account. The fact that the Nazis have allowed an independent organisation to ensure living standards are met in "death camps" is puzzling enough, if you ask me. Further has he been asking for evidence for the official numbers, which differ by several magnitudes and which appear to be mainly based on confessions under torture (a practice that has been effective to produce any desired confession as medieval practice has shown). If you then do a google image search on the official number you will find some news clippings of previous incidents (I mean pre Nazi and outside Germany) so that the number might be more religious metaphorical than factual. (Warning: please do not google this if you are comfortable in your spot!)

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Red Cross were only allowed to go where they were allowed so their figures are not all encompassing. Basic research.

 

https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/world-war-two/the-red-cross-and-world-war-two/

 

 

The Red Cross played a very important role in World War Two with the help they gave to prisoners of war. The Red Cross worked within the confines that war puts on it – that the belligerent powers will allow the Red Cross to do its work. If warring nations do not allow this to happen, then the Red Cross can do little.

red
The first of these conventions involved the sick and wounded. The Red Cross established auxiliary hospitals where they were allowed to and staffed them with Red Cross personnel. They were neutral and treated anyone caught up in a conflict wherever this was. It was an international expectation that warring nations would treat Red Cross personnel in the appropriate manner and that the hospitals were not legitimate targets. The Red Cross also established convalescent homes to look after the sick if they needed long term care.During World War Two, the belligerent nations in Western Europe allowed the Red Cross to carry out its work of supporting those who had been taken prisoner. The same was not as true in the Pacific and Eastern European theatres of war. A

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https://www.redcross.org.uk/about-us/our-history/the-red-cross-in-the-second-world-war

And how it was used 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/25/nazis-escaped-on-red-cross-documents

 

The Red Cross and the Vatican both helped thousands of Nazi war criminals and collaborators to escape after the second world war, according to a book that pulls together evidence from unpublished documents.

The Red Cross has previously acknowledged that its efforts to help refugees were used by Nazis because administrators were overwhelmed, but the research suggests the numbers were much higher than thought.

Gerald Steinacher, a research fellow at Harvard University, was given access to thousands of internal documents in the archives of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC). The documents include Red Cross travel documents issued mistakenly to Nazis in the postwar chaos.

They throw light on how and why mass murderers such as Adolf Eichmann, Josef Mengele and Klaus Barbie and thousands of others evaded capture by the allies.

 

By comparing lists of wanted war criminals to travel documents, Steinacher says Britain and Canada alone inadvertently took in around 8,000 former Waffen-SS members in 1947, many on the basis of valid documents issued mistakenl....

 

 

interesting comment in the guest posts, uncorroborated but interesting as a line of thought

Sadly all too predictable. The ICRC's trips to the concentration camps were minmal at best - and they almost always believed what the Nazis told them.”

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1 hour ago, Oldun said:

Red Cross were only allowed to go where they were allowed so their figures are not all encompassing. Basic research.

 

https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/world-war-two/the-red-cross-and-world-war-two/

 

 

During World War Two, the belligerent nations in Western Europe allowed the Red Cross to carry out its work of supporting those who had been taken prisoner. The same was not as true in the Pacific and Eastern European theatres of war. [nor for the DEF - disarmed enemy forces / SEP - surrendered enemy personnel in the Rheinwiesenlager]

Your own quote contradicts your own statement.

And a bit further down on the Red Cross website you cite:

The Red Cross also attempted to help those in concentration camps. Here, they met with mixed results. Attempts to get the names of those in the camps met with failure. In 1943, the Nazis did agree that Red Cross parcels could be sent to named non-Germans*) in the concentration camps. Somehow, the Red Cross got hold of a few names and sent food parcels to these names. Receipts for these parcels were returned to Geneva – sometimes with as many as a dozen names on each receipt. This method allowed the Red Cross to collect more and more names. By the time the war ended, the Red Cross had a list of 105,000 names of people being held in concentration camps and over 1 million parcels were sent out – even to the death camps in Poland. As the war came to its end, to observe what went on in the concentration camps, a Red Cross delegate stayed in each camp.

*) named non-Germans – the Nazis stripped the Jews in 1935 of their German Citizenship; i would therefore conclude that the Red Cross could send parcels to Jews in concentration camps if they got hold of their names. If they ever received them is obviously another matter. 

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@augur

From anyone with views they are content with, there no need to read further - this is not deep digging information, it is fairly widely available and accepted by both sides, even if not broadcast.

This is correct, the Red Cross were denied access to the German troops captured by the Americans. As you correctly put, they were reclassified as Disarmed Enemy Forces. They were no longer afforded Geneva Convention rights. As i expect you know this was covered in James Bacque's "Other Losses." published in 1989 where he describes German DEF's (100's of thousands) being kept in the open, guarded by machine gun posts and starved to death. Women from the local area would attempt to bring these men food and American troops were ordered to shoot at them. This of course was covered and denied. Shows the power of the controlled press and 'experts'. i note to the British Army's credit on this occasion they acted more decently and treated their captives as POW's and did not commit such war crimes. 

i know some of the German camps doubled up as POW camps. Auschwitz was certainly one. There are photos of POW's in football teams. The sports fields at Auschwitz were next to crematorium facilities which are portrayed as gas chambers.

The same website Oldun uses as his "Basic research" says '

The British POW’s held in German camps run by the military had a tolerable time as Nazi Germany was a signatory to the Geneva Convention and the Red Cross had reasonable access to German camps.'

'German POW camps were usually run fairly. As the men in these camps were from the military and German military personnel ran these camps, there was a degree of empathy between both sides.'

https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/world-war-two/prisoners-of-war-in-ww2/british-prisoners-of-war/

So in one breath the site says there was minimal access and then on another page it declares it would have been reasonable.

Auschwitz was a POW camp. Fairly recently the accounts of British POW's have come out. Various accounts are given. We see one here from Gloucester.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/history/astonishing-story-gloucesters-auschwitz-pow-23175

We hear the ' staggering tale of survival has remained untold for more than 70 years.'  Allegedly in his memoirs he has put ' He was put to work in Auschwitz' rubber factory, alongside the Jewish prisoners.' The purpose of the Auschwitz Monowitz complex was Monowitz which was a massive industrial complex. There was also a munitions factory. The inmates at Auschwitz worked in the factories which produced vital supplies for the war effort.

I see printed is '... soon learnt that the ever present smell was that of burning bodies.' in the newspaper article.

i have heard a similar description in a POW video interviewed. In 2011 Dennis Avey had published a book 'I broke into Auschwitz' - he got a 6 figure advance for this. Discerning reviewers suggested it was a knock off of the account given by Sergeant Major Charles Coward who testified at the Nuremberg. Good money if you can get it. Now we could say accounts repeat b/c the describe the same events. Two people having the same experience of 'breaking into Auschwitz' - hardly credible.

We see the burning flesh account with the POW's. Sadly i know this element is fabricated. Crematoria chimneys do not issue smoke or flame and they do not issue the smell of burning flesh. There was a photo of new camp arrivals at Auschwitz in the Simon Wiesenthal Centre where it showed 'smoke' across the sky by chimneys in the distance. It is a fake and was eventually taken down when it was outed. The original photo had come to light and there was no smoke. The same goes for stories i have heard where different coloured smoke and flames come from the chimneys depending on who was being burnt in the 'ovens'.  It is comical to imagine anyone would believe flames and smoke would be different colours depending on nationality of those burnt but on the US TV show Donahue a woman in the front row swears she witnessed this. The working chimney stacks clearly visible in aerial photos the USAF and RAF are tall - flames issuing from this sort of chimney would never happen.

i found at every touch and turn there are impossibilities and discrepancies.  We are not encouraged to investigate and ask questions so generally people don't discover these.

We see in the propaganda newsreel footage of US politicians and the press being shown the inside of the Dachau gas chamber. We see pipes and control valves allegedly to deliver gas to the shower heads. Tourists are also shown the 'gas chamber'. The evidence given at Nuremberg was of Dachau gas chambers. Witnesses said people were gassed.

The shower room seen in the newsreel and by tourists to this day had its ceiling lowered for the postwar visit and filming. The pipes were water pipes. It was a shower room and always had been. Now the tourists are shown a notice to say GAS CHAMBER disguised as a 'shower room' - never used as a gas chamber. The original account could not be sustained. It was a shower room and had had working water pipes. The case for death camps in Germany was as strong if not stronger than that in Poland. Since the early 1960's there has been a quiet acceptance there were no death camps in Germany. Even Simon Wiesenthal admitted to not once but twice there were no death camps in Germany (he actually means no death camps in any of the territory taken by the US/British Army). This generated huge criticism for Wiesenthal as he was a high profile 'Nazi hunter' whose proclamations could not be so easily dismissed. 

It is indeed a fascinating subject - it taught me.

Always cast your vote - Spoil your ballot slip. Put 'Spoilt Ballot - I do not consent.' These votes are counted. If you do not do this you are consenting to the tyranny. None of them are fit for purpose. 
A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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8 hours ago, augur said:

Your own quote contradicts your own statement.

And a bit further down on the Red Cross website you cite:

The Red Cross also attempted to help those in concentration camps. Here, they met with mixed results. Attempts to get the names of those in the camps met with failure. In 1943, the Nazis did agree that Red Cross parcels could be sent to named non-Germans*) in the concentration camps. Somehow, the Red Cross got hold of a few names and sent food parcels to these names. Receipts for these parcels were returned to Geneva – sometimes with as many as a dozen names on each receipt. This method allowed the Red Cross to collect more and more names. By the time the war ended, the Red Cross had a list of 105,000 names of people being held in concentration camps and over 1 million parcels were sent out – even to the death camps in Poland. As the war came to its end, to observe what went on in the concentration camps, a Red Cross delegate stayed in each camp.

*) named non-Germans – the Nazis stripped the Jews in 1935 of their German Citizenship; i would therefore conclude that the Red Cross could send parcels to Jews in concentration camps if they got hold of their names. If they ever received them is obviously another matter. 

I am not contradicting, just providing websites for perusal. Cheers. My great uncle fought all over Europe, The Far East and so on. He was in The Chindits. When I was a boy, he used to tell me all about his adventures every time I visited him. That is real history. I don’t need anything else :) I will take my own knowledge directly from family :) That includes my mum, her family, my dad, his family who were all in The East End and took the brunt of it.

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@daz i was wrong: i looked up the Wikipedia definition for Holocaust Denial and it is now so broad that revisiting (conflicting) evidence, questioning the practice of extorting confessions under torture, comparing allied war crimes and even looking into the cause of the outbreak of WW I are in line with or considered as Holocaust Denial. Unless you propagate the official version unquestioned, you are essentially in denial.

Most of Central Europe can imprison anybody who publicly voices doubts on the official version (like here on a forum). And while extraditions in the past were not successful, we all want to occasionally escape the rain once in a while.

Holocaust_Denial_Crime_2016.gif

 

So better not question anything we are being told and keep stacking. 

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On a side point my uncle passed away two years ago, he had quite the collection of ww2 firearms like Bren guns, one with blown barrel but intact fire mech and another with an intact barrel and blown fire mech....all taken away by Greater Manchester police following his death along with other guns plus ammo. He did however also have a German UBoat war badge, confirmed by auctioneer as being genuine.

https://www.heartsanddaggers.co.uk/german-imperial-and-world-war-2-militaria/432-ww2-german-third-reich-u-boat-badge.html looks like this 

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