Kinesis Gold and Silver currency

[sixgun]

7 hours ago, Silvergirl said:

So what happens to your investment if the project doesn’t get off the ground?

There seems to a lot of heart over head being used here. I read somewhere that 100,000 had been sold to someone- must have been untrue as they aren’t accounted for on the total sold. Also, read claims that they could have sold the entire 300,000 to institutions but didn’t because they wanted to give them to the public.

That doesn’t make sense. The CEO,s job is surely to secure the funding of the project and if you can sell 300,000, Brilliant. You take it and then You create more and offer them to the public safe in the knowledge that they’ll probably pile in as institutions are already on board.

Plus, the public wouldn’t miss what they weren’t offered so would be none the wiser but would be reassured they were in good company.

With less than 20% sold to date  the viability must be in question and the CEO decision is looking like an absolutely appalling one -if the opportunity to sell 300,000 was true!

Why would you say no thanks to $300,000,000 and instead try and go out and resell what you had just been offered?

bizarre.

What happens to the cash in any project where money is raised? You can asked that question of any project raising money but you ask as if there is something different about this project. In this project most of the infrastructure is already in place - you have an idea being bolted on to a running business - the vaulting system is there, the experience in wholesale precious metals is there, the contacts are there, the Metaldesk trading platform is there - the platform for Kinesis is based on Metaldesk. The majority of the ico's in the crypto space are just an idea which sadly is why most of them will fail.

Andrew Maguire has said on several occasions an offer was made at the St Moritz cryptocurrency conference to buy all the KVT's. An offer was made - That does not mean the offer was actually accepted at that time. Perhaps a deal was done, that the tokens will be sold after the public sale. You can see all the sales on etherscan.io - there are no bigger players. Kinesis have published commercial arrangements with the Deutsche Börse, for example, to imagine no bigger players have been interested despite the Börse's many big player members would be a stretch. These sales don't show up - either none are interested or tokens are schedule to be sold to bigger players after the sale to the general public. We have been told there will be some sales then.

It has been stated publicly on the last TF Metals interview that all the KVT's could have been sold to large concerns in the first months but a decision was made not to sell to large institutions in the public sale. We will discover what if any other KVT's are sold after the public sale closes in a month's time.

There is sufficient funding for the project already - the CEO has done his job already. You assume sales are not already secured but with the clause that number is those left over from the public sale.

The public won't miss what they weren't offered. No they wouldn't have but now they have been offered the KVT's.

The project has the resources already with those that have been sold - 90 000 of the KVT's are reserved so there are only 210 000 to sell. You presume tokens are not already earmarked if not sold in the public sale.

[sixgun]

3 hours ago, Silvergirl said:

You buy a ticket in the game and he controls your future with the decisions he makes- or you lose.

Totally.

So far his emotional decisions have cost over 80% of the funding he could have had.

$300,000,000 or

$57,000,000.

Potentially not good for you, or the project.

what would he choose in hindsight?

I hope he gets business-like rather than emotional for the sake of investors.

Business runs on cash , not morality.

What expenses and salaries are being deducted from funds raised .......?

As they say on Dragons Den.

”i’m Out”

 

You're out - your decision.

As i have said there is enough funding in place now.

We have been told there are buyers for KVT's after the public sale. Not knowing that you assume offers have been sent packing. An emotional bad decision has been made.

Edited October 12, 2018 by sixgun

[Silvergirl]

In pages 1-11 you provided the facts. Not me.

Now you’re providing fiction.

If, buts, ands and maybe’s aren’t the basis to make an investment decision on.

Ill stick to Apple.

done.

[Groundup]

 

I'll stick to Apple 

So when did you first buy Apple!!!   was it at the very beginning.. you must have understood the great concepts they were offering!!!!

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, Silvergirl said:

Now you’re providing fiction.

Are you involved in the Telegram thread?

You aren't on the Ambassador's Telegram thread - you don't have the same amount of information - you don't have the same contact. You can't know everything that is going on.

I'd sell Apple right now - we look like we are going to be entering a bear market for stocks. You could put your money in gold and silver - you could buy it on the Allocated Bullion Exchange and then you will be ready for March when you could mint Kinesis coins.

[Martlet]

15 hours ago, Groundup said:

As for the CEOs decision to sell first to the small guys. Why is this such a hard concept to understand

Well for me its highly unusual, normal practice in business is to find fund raising any which way you can, not turn it down, because you never know if you'll raise the money later.  And its contradictory then putting a $1k price on the tokens, so the really small guys are priced out.  I wouldn't want to put in $1k, though at $100 i'd have taken a punt even with questions lingering (i've put that in to more speculative projects).  If they had promises of funds they were not committed, so count for next to nothing.  On the other hand, etherscan.io shows one very large investor, all those >2000 allocation trace back to a single account, though that's another contradiction.

[vanderPoot]

12 hours ago, Silvergirl said:

As I said, “i’m Out”

No, please stay, I need you

[Groundup]

36 minutes ago, Martlet said:

Well for me its highly unusual, normal practice in business is to find fund raising any which way you can, not turn it down, because you never know if you'll raise the money later.  And its contradictory then putting a $1k price on the tokens, so the really small guys are priced out.  I wouldn't want to put in $1k, though at $100 i'd have taken a punt even with questions lingering (i've put that in to more speculative projects).  If they had promises of funds they were not committed, so count for next to nothing.  On the other hand, etherscan.io shows one very large investor, all those >2000 allocation trace back to a single account, though that's another contradiction.

The soft cap has already been reached as previously said so no worries about the funds. I personally don't see £1000 that high a figure. (Each to there own). Fair point about etherscan.io, but.. that someone... is still putting there money in, so has a lot of confidence in the project, even with the smaller KVT purchasing (hundreds) it adds up to confidence in the project. 

I bought my place in this monetary system and I'm fine with that. Every one should do there own research and see if it is a viable punt. In the grand scheme of things the CEOs decision to find funding in this way is not a major deal breaker.

 

 

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, Martlet said:

Well for me its highly unusual, normal practice in business is to find fund raising any which way you can, not turn it down, because you never know if you'll raise the money later.

But if you do know you will raise money later.... A decision was made to let Joe Public have their chance. i have been told there are large institutions lining up - one in particular was mentioned - GSR Capital (a big Chinese investor - hint). If one big player came in, then all the KVT's would be gone in a rush. Hedge funds don't tend to like to be first but don;t like to be left out.

[Martlet]

30 minutes ago, sixgun said:

But if you do know you will raise money later.... A decision was made to let Joe Public have their chance. i have been told there are large institutions lining up - one in particular was mentioned - GSR Capital (a big Chinese investor - hint). If one big player came in, then all the KVT's would be gone in a rush. Hedge funds don't tend to like to be first but don;t like to be left out.

You're taking this on trust and one of the core, original principles of blockchain is to remove trust.  You dont *know* investors will be able or inclined to invest later.  Normal fund raising has large investors underwrite the issue, you can still open it to smaller investment pools and and individuals (I briefly supported system for book running).   The investor controlling 40000 KVT backs up what you say, but i find the claims at odds with actions.  Kinesis could be funded and launched by now but they preferred to extend the process    

[sixgun]

 

47 minutes ago, Martlet said:

You're taking this on trust and one of the core, original principles of blockchain is to remove trust.

The trust point is the CEO tells a group some information - agreed this could all be lies - indeed i could be lying about this ever having taken place. Nothing to do with blockchain - just an everyday fact of life for where one person communicates information to another. You either trust what they say or you don't. Interactions with other people are based on trust somewhere down the line. You imply any trust i might have is unfounded or at least should be doubted. Indeed as you have no knowledge of the basis of the trust you might be right to doubt. You rely on trusting my judgement, which i presume you don't.

The principles of blockchain are irrelevant to any conversation that did or didn't take place.

 

55 minutes ago, Martlet said:

You dont *know* investors will be able or inclined to invest later.

Agreed i don't know the future. Like you don't either. We are left with trust.

56 minutes ago, Martlet said:

Normal fund raising has large investors underwrite the issue, you can still open it to smaller investment pools and and individuals (I briefly supported system for book running).

Often share offerings are underwritten - insurance is taken out to guarantee all or some specific number of shares will be sold. A premium is paid. It is usually pretty hefty which is one reason conventional share offering are outrageously expensive and since this is priced in, shareholders are fleeced. One of the principles of this particular system is those who participate in it are rewarded, not the merchant bankers. Whether an offering is underwritten is a judgement decision. There is a soft cap which is the amount absolutely necessary to sell or else it is an non runner - that cap has been passed. The pre-ito for Kinesis tokens achieved 3 times the average $18.6 million pre-ito. The philosophy is to include ordinary people hence the tokens have not be dished out to large players from the off. i agree the pricing on single tokens is high - too high for many or rather too high for their trust. These tokens give admission to the pre-ico where to mint the Kinesis coins the minimum investment is 100g of gold or 10kg of silver. So it is not for beggars and orphans.

1 hour ago, Martlet said:

Kinesis could be funded and launched by now but they preferred to extend the process    

i was interested in the BullionCoin gold and silver backed digital currency. This was a year from blue paper to full launch. This is how long Kinesis will be. i agree they do seem to drag these things out. What seems to happen is they develop the businesses as the offerings go on rather before the offering or after full launch. Front end investors when there is least developed get the best deal - 25% discount on KVT's and the 20% top line returns of the KVT. Now Kinesis is much more developed, there are no discounts. Those buying gold/silver in the pre-ico will get a biggest share of revenues from coins but have to wait until full launch to see any returns. Those waiting until full launch get less but will see a return at the end of the first month. You are rewarded for trust. It is your own judgement call based on your risk appetite, your experiences and your knowledge.

[mr1030]

I personally like the idea of them giving the little guys the first opportunity to buy the KVT's before institutional buyers. Think of all the big name IPO's over the years where the little guy couldn't even try to buy at the initial price because the big money had first crack at it and drove it sky high.   And I also believe there has probably been a decision made to offer any unsold KVT's to institutional investors after a certain date.  With the business model they are bringing to market, I think Kinesis is better served by having thousands of individual KVT holders who are vested in the business, want it to succeed, will use the system themselves and tell their friends and relatives to do the same, rather then one or two institutional investors who just look at it as an investment entry on their books.  The size of Kinesis' marketing team increases with every new individual KVT owner.  As was said above, they far exceeded the soft cap $ amount that was needed to launch the system, so I am not concerned that it won't happen.  Is it high risk?  Certainly.  There is always the chance that it won't accomplish wide scale acceptability and usage.  But if it does, that high risk gives a high reward.  I look at this as a high risk venture capital investment without my having to have the big $ that the usual venture capital investor has to have to play in the game.  FYI, I have bought KVT's.  

[sixgun]

 

[sixgun]

A webpage has been found to create Kinesis wallets as so on - i don't know more about it

https://alpha-wallet.kinesisgroup.io/

Edited October 30, 2018 by sixgun

[Groundup]

1 hour ago, sixgun said:

A webpage has been found to create Kinesis wallets as so on - i don't know more about it

https://alpha-wallet.kinesisgroup.io/

Ayup sixgun

Have you had a play around with this wallet.

I haven't yet. I'm waiting for more details and to learn from the kinesis community. 

Any thoughts.

 

 

[sixgun]

i created a wallet. Some guys got some KAU's somehow and sent them to another wallet. i don't think we were supposed to have found this yet!

[Groundup]

14 minutes ago, sixgun said:

i created a wallet. Some guys got some KAU's somehow and sent them to another wallet. i don't think we were supposed to have found this yet!

I haven't set one up yet, but reading the setup. It sounds similar to settings other crypto wallets.

Wow.. some kau already..

So I take it these kau are just "test kau" and not the real McCoy.

[sixgun]

Just toy KAU's

[Groundup]

12 hours ago, sixgun said:

i created a wallet. Some guys got some KAU's somehow and sent them to another wallet. i don't think we were supposed to have found this yet!

Hi sixgun 

The wallet you have created, is this just for learning or do you intend on keeping it for real transactions.

I'm thinking of creating one for having a play with. Then delete it and use another for the launch date.

[sixgun]

3 hours ago, Groundup said:

Hi sixgun 

The wallet you have created, is this just for learning or do you intend on keeping it for real transactions.

I'm thinking of creating one for having a play with. Then delete it and use another for the launch date.

One of the Ambassadors discovered the link - how i don't know. i expect these could be deleted but i don't know for sure. Not much to see so i would not be fussed about making one.

[Oystonousted]

Has anyone bought any of these KVT’S yet  for $1000 USD each?

[sixgun]

yes i have some.

[Groundup]

1 hour ago, Oystonout said:

Has anyone bought any of these KVT’S yet  for $1000 USD each?

@Oystonout you thinking of partaking. This project looks good, hands down better than its closest rival.

Do some research on it see what you think.

[Oystonousted]

Feel I understand the whole Kinesis model but bit unclear about these initial token offerings. 

Are these tokens purchased back once the  gold and silver coins become active in March next year?

How does one anticipate whether $1000 is  a good deal or not and what it’s value is in the next 6 mths? What returns can you expect to achieve?

Cheers 

[sixgun]

31 minutes ago, Oystonout said:

Feel I understand the whole Kinesis model but bit unclear about these initial token offerings. 

Are these tokens purchased back once the  gold and silver coins become active in March next year?

How does one anticipate whether $1000 is  a good deal or not and what it’s value is in the next 6 mths? What returns can you expect to achieve?

Cheers 

The Kinesis Velocity Tokens are part of the fund raising stage. These tokens are entitled to 20% of the top line revenue. There is no intention to buy back the KVT's. 

There are projections for year one which are $2 700 per KVT. They go much higher for later years. The price of the KVT will depend on the yield. i have suggested a 10% yield would be a good rule of thumb pricing guide. So if the yield were actually $2 700 then the KVT could reasonably be priced at $27 000. To get your money back an annual yield of $100 would fit the bill.

So assuming Kinesis launches, being able to sell KVT's at $1000 is highly likely. The risk is Kinesis does not get off the ground, even a limping along project is likely to get your money back. My plan is to get my seed capital out from the yields which come in at the end of each month and then it is free money. 

i cannot be sure but reading between the lines from the Kinesis team the unsold KVT's will be snapped up by bigger fish once the public sale is over. Indeed they have as much as said that. You won't be able to buy coins until March when the full blown trading starts unless you have at least 1 KVT. As i understand it you will be able to mint coins from 12th November and these coins will be entitled to a higher proportion of the royalty when they change hands - 15% rather than 5% of transaction charges. However you won't be able to trade these - so you buy gold/silver and this sits in the ABX vaults until trading starts in March - so it is like buy sovereigns except will have an income stream when you sell these coins into the market.

There is a private webinar for Ambassadors tomorrow afternoon - we have quite a few questions lined up for Tom Coughlin and hopefully things which aren't clear to us will be sorted out.

Edited October 31, 2018 by sixgun