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Cornishfarmer

20 Francs Advice Please

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2 hours ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

Angels are getting harder to source at reasonable premiums. 

You can say that again! Just done some maths and the angels I have to date have cost me about 11% over current spot.Its only the high current spot that keeps this premium so low, which suggests most of my purchases at the time would have been spot +15-20%.

That said, most of the angels I possess are better than bullion grade, and would command a premium if I were to ever sell them privately. My figure also includes the purchase of a very rare (and even more expensive) 1888.

To compound my misery..I am trying to collect a date run so can’t just buy at random, plus..dealers are more sophisticated now and realise that different dates have different mintages and charge accordingly.

By my reconning there are 23 different 20 francs angels to collect, and so far I have 14..a long hard road ahead me thinks.

(23 includes some years which have two different engraver marks within the same year - 1879 & 1896).

Its a good job I like a challenge!

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2 hours ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

Angels are getting harder to source at reasonable premiums. Got to wait for spot to go down but it’s my next buy followed by the Tunisia 20fr. 

I stil have one tunisian waiting for you ;) Remember there are several different types but only 2 of them are affordable. 1891-1902 and 1903-1906

 

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5 minutes ago, whuamai said:

I stil have one tunisian waiting for you ;) Remember there are several different types but only 2 of them are affordable. 1891-1902 and 1903-1906

 

Oh yes you def on my list. Maybe that worn marianne if I recall. Just waiting for some more pp funds so I can cover the buys at once especially since I have to pay fees lol

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9 hours ago, Kookaburracollector said:

Hello @whuamai

Welcome to this thread..we are a quite civilised and friendly group of people!

20 Francs Coins are easy to sell, as they are 90% gold like most other coins used in circulation.

Sovereigns will always carry a small premium, as they are more widely collected.

For me the odd 2 or 3% is irrelevant in what I collect, and I really don’t know why so many people obsess about it. If you get 2% less on £10000 it’s only £200..not a big deal! 

Personally, I collect the 20 francs coins because I find them more interesting than sovereigns..the financial side of things is less important, as I don’t believe I will ever sell my collection.

It sounds like Germany is a good place to collect the LMU coins..I have never bought one at spot!

What date are you missing 

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Angels I am missing:- 1848 (see separate post later today), 1871,1879(both types),1887,1889,1892,1894 & 1896(Torch).

I could go online and buy most of them today, but I would be absolutely taken to the cleaners price wise.

If anyone does spot one of these on their travels, please feel free to send me some photos..it’s then the tricky task of weighing up price vs quality.

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Finally, my last educational contribution to the thread for a while!....

HOW DEALERS HAVE CHANGED TACT RECENTLY....not to our advantage!

This exemplifies it perfectly...

Two 20 Francs Angels were minted - 1848 and 1849. The next wasnt until 1871!

In August 2018, I was able to call BBP, get them to have a sort through their stock, and then purchase what dates I wanted without paying a premium above their listed price. Their customer service I have always found to be brilliant, but this often comes at a price!

So, six months ago I bought my 1849 from them for £220 including postage. A coin in pretty good condition...

CB83104D-5240-4E0E-863C-1B013E356880.thumb.jpeg.af278f72236b041bacdeb05308a39fbb.jpeg

D67E59FE-6ADD-4EF4-BC93-48741081A0A9.thumb.jpeg.a714be534e496048b4300f108b2d8d93.jpeg

 

Wind the clock forward to today..they now sell a lot of their angels by date and charge accordingly.

No idea who came up with this price,as it’s crazy, but look at the 1848 that they currently have for sale...(note: the mintage for the 1848 is higher than my 1849)

C9B61B6D-FCAB-47A1-8E7B-1E70F02AB84E.thumb.png.343be33bdbe3c67f78ea296d9960d204.png

 

Don’t think I will be buying this one any time soon..

On top of this, they are getting harder to source as @ilovesilverireallydo mentioned earlier. Six moths ago I could have bought several from Chards, today they have none for sale- even at 25% above spot they have sold out!

Perhaps they are all in Germany 🇩🇪 !@eddi

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18 minutes ago, Kookaburracollector said:

Finally, my last educational contribution to the thread for a while!....

HOW DEALERS HAVE CHANGED TACT RECENTLY....not to our advantage!

This exemplifies it perfectly...

Two 20 Francs Angels were minted - 1848 and 1849. The next wasnt until 1871!

In August 2018, I was able to call BBP, get them to have a sort through their stock, and then purchase what dates I wanted without paying a premium above their listed price. Their customer service I have always found to be brilliant, but this often comes at a price!

So, six months ago I bought my 1849 from them for £220 including postage. A coin in pretty good condition...

CB83104D-5240-4E0E-863C-1B013E356880.thumb.jpeg.af278f72236b041bacdeb05308a39fbb.jpeg

D67E59FE-6ADD-4EF4-BC93-48741081A0A9.thumb.jpeg.a714be534e496048b4300f108b2d8d93.jpeg

 

Wind the clock forward to today..they now sell a lot of their angels by date and charge accordingly.

No idea who came up with this price,as it’s crazy, but look at the 1848 that they currently have for sale...(note: the mintage for the 1848 is higher than my 1849)

C9B61B6D-FCAB-47A1-8E7B-1E70F02AB84E.thumb.png.343be33bdbe3c67f78ea296d9960d204.png

 

Don’t think I will be buying this one any time soon..

On top of this, they are getting harder to source as @ilovesilverireallydo mentioned earlier. Six moths ago I could have bought several from Chards, today they have none for sale- even at 25% above spot they have sold out!

Perhaps they are all in Germany 🇩🇪 !@eddi

Some 'bullion' dealers are now having a laugh by selecting dates of all sorts of things and increasing the premium.

A slabbed 1848 in NGC AU55 sold at Heritage on the 20th December 2018 for $264 including premium (many more examples over the last year or so for around this price), I hope the BBP example is a definite MS66:lol:

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Hmm a was offered  one `1848 last summer for 20 euro over spot  but a was not interested .If  a see another one a let u know.

Yes its true if u ask dealers they will charge premium on top of they bullion premium   HGM doas as well   when a went to buy some coin in shop a wanted  2010  but didnt  like the premium  so a said just give me the cheapest  and they give 2010 brand new in plastic . If a asked for the date a would pay another 4 pound  on top.

A have few angels   a will check and let u know if a have any of u dates 

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19 hours ago, Kookaburracollector said:

For me the odd 2 or 3% is irrelevant in what I collect, and I really don’t know why so many people obsess about it.

Id happily pay 2 or 3% premium all day long but I’m not finding them for that.  I thought I was lucky to get my first one for roughly 5% premium.

The cheapest ones on eBay at the moment are around 10% over spot.

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29 minutes ago, Goldhooked said:

Id happily pay 2 or 3% premium all day long but I’m not finding them for that.  I thought I was lucky to get my first one for roughly 5% premium.

The cheapest ones on eBay at the moment are around 10% over spot.

Hi @Goldhooked I think when I mentioned the 2-3% premium, I was referring to people shopping around and buying all sorts of coins  in general, from less reliable sources than a main dealer...and not on getting these beautiful coins a little over spot. Hope that makes sense!

Edited by Kookaburracollector

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22 minutes ago, whuamai said:

Patience pays! A complete collection is boring, to have a goal to achieve is more fun. Within a period of a few years it should be possible to find many nice coins close to spot..also Angels...

I couldn’t agree more about ‘A complete collection is boring’..it’s all about the journey, and not just arriving at the destination,

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40 minutes ago, Kookaburracollector said:

Hi @Goldhooked I think when I mentioned the 2-3% premium, I was referring to people shopping around and buying all sorts of coins  in general, from less reliable sources than a main dealer...and not on getting these beautiful coins a little over spot. Hope that makes sense!

I see. 

It would be great though to get these 20 franc coins at 2% over spot on a regular basis :D 

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