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Cornishfarmer

20 Francs Advice Please

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This may be of help

https://coinweek.com/world-coins/the-latin-monetary-union-gold-coins/

i believe it was the Latin monetary union, with 20 gold francs from various country's, I don't know how many variations there's is tho. I'm sure morezone made a YouTube video on his, definitely worth a watch

im sure coininvest have quite a few of the variations 

hope this helps

Edited by Micky9776

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I’m collecting the 20 francs/ Latin monetary union coins.  I have 7 with another 5 on the way.  They’re great to collect.  There are so many different varieties and some beautiful coins.

Most are around bullion value.  There are a few that are a bit more expensive as the mintages are lower. The most expensive I’ve come across so far is the finish 20 markkaa which is around £400.  I’m yet to acquire this coin but I will one day!!  I’ve had quite a few from coininvest over the last few yrs at reasonable prices. Baird have a few too.

Some of the coins have some great history behind them expecially the angel and the early nepolian bonaparte francs.  Out of all my stack, the 20 francs are my favourite.  

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1 hour ago, Cornishfarmer said:

thinking of starting a run of 20 francs gold coins.    Am I right that they have about 18 designs?    How hard are they to find?  More of a stacker than collector so don’t want to go too far over spot.   Any tips of advice greatly received 

https://taxfreegold.co.uk/france20francs.php

Types & Dates

This table shows a list of the different types of French 20 Francs, and their date ranges.

Denomination Type First Date Last Date
20 Francs Bonaparte Premier Consul / Value in Wreath
Latin Date
XI (1802/3) XI (1802/3)
20 Francs Bonaparte Premier Consul / Value in Wreath
AN Arabic Numerals
12 (1803/4) 12 (1803/4)
20 Francs Napoleon Empereur / Value in Wreath
AN (Arabic Numerals)
12 (1803/4) 14 (1805/6)
20 Francs Napoleon Empereur Bare Head / Value in Wreath 1806 1807
20 Francs Napoleon Empereur Laureate Head / Value in Wreath 1807 1815
20 Francs Louis XVIII Bust / Crowned Shield in Wreath 1814 1815
20 Francs Louis XVIII Head / New Crowned Shield in Wreath 1816 1824
20 Francs Charles X / Crowned Shield in Wreath 1825 1830
20 Francs Louis Philippe Bare Head / Value in Wreath 1830 1831
20 Francs Louis Philippe Laureate Head / Value in Wreath 1832 1846
20 Francs Angel / Value in Wreath 1848 1849
20 Francs Head of République / Value in Wreath 1849 1851
20 Francs Louis Napoleon Bonaparte / Value in Wreath 1852 1852
20 Francs Napoleon III / Value in Wreath 1853 1860
20 Francs Napoleon III / Shield 1861 1870
20 Francs Angel / Value in Wreath 1871 1898
20 Francs Ceres / Cockerel (Rooster)
Edge DIEU PROTEGE LA FRANCE
1899 1906
20 Francs Ceres / Cockerel (Rooster)
Edge LIBERTE EGALITE FRATERNITE
1906 1914

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It seems to have lost my reply so I will have another go, I blame the WiFi:lol:

This is a nice series to collect as most of the dates for Angels, Roosters and Napoleon III can be had for near spot. The earlier coins will have much higher premiums and the rare dates can be expensive - I have an early one that I paid about £2500 for and then it was only in VF condition but then the mintage was only about 500. For Angels and Roosters in MS65 and MS66 you will have to pay a serious premium but they are very impressive coins in these grades.

Expanding to the monetary union, which has already been mentioned, adds many further designs and countries and increases the numbers of types dramatically, some of which are cheap (later Belgian and Italian issues) and some of prohibitively expensive. This set has always been a goal but it would need a lottery win!

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I don’t suppose any1 has a list of the 20 francs for the Latin monetary union? I’ve googled it but can’t find a comprehensive list anywhere.  Chards is usually an excellent source of reference but I can’t even find one on there. 

@SilverTanner wow £2500!! If you don’t mind me asking, which coin was that? I’ve heard some of the nepolian Bonaparte 5 franc specifically can be really expensive.  

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37 minutes ago, Lea79 said:

I don’t suppose any1 has a list of the 20 francs for the Latin monetary union? I’ve googled it but can’t find a comprehensive list anywhere.  Chards is usually an excellent source of reference but I can’t even find one on there. 

@SilverTanner wow £2500!! If you don’t mind me asking, which coin was that? I’ve heard some of the nepolian Bonaparte 5 franc specifically can be really expensive.  

Countries issuing coins equivalent to the French 20 gold francs are Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Danish West Indies, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Leichenstein, Romania and Switzerland - it is only Belgium and Switzerland that call them francs though!

One of my expensive coins is a Napoleon AN13 gold 20 francs from the Perpignan mint (Q) with a mintage of only 522 - the very few known in EF (couple? slabbed AU grade) are silly money - sold a bunch of sovereigns to pay for it :( but I hope it will do better in the long run:D

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1 hour ago, SilverTanner said:

Countries issuing coins equivalent to the French 20 gold francs are Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Danish West Indies, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Leichenstein, Romania and Switzerland - it is only Belgium and Switzerland that call them francs though!

One of my expensive coins is a Napoleon AN13 gold 20 francs from the Perpignan mint (Q) with a mintage of only 522 - the very few known in EF (couple? slabbed AU grade) are silly money - sold a bunch of sovereigns to pay for it :( but I hope it will do better in the long run:D

Nice!! I have an AN12 and AN13 but they’re both Paris mint.  The AN12 is my fav coin. I’d really like the ANXI but I can’t find one.  I’m sure your AN13 will only get more sought after.   Hey we might even drum up some forum members interest with this thread haha. 

 

54 minutes ago, steve1905 said:

That's a pretty comprehensive list from @sixgunI've got about half of them and some of the others from the monetary union including 20 lira from the Vatican. At risk of being shunned by other forum members I'd say they were more interesting than Sovereigns :D

I’ve got to agree about them being more interesting than sovereigns.  There are just so many lovely designs.  Variety is the spice of life as they say ?. 

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2 hours ago, SilverTanner said:

sold a bunch of sovereigns to pay for it

 

2 hours ago, steve1905 said:

I'd say they were more interesting than Sovereigns 

 

1 hour ago, Lea79 said:

I’ve got to agree about them being more interesting than sovereigns

Right you three are now on the list!!:ph34r:

Chris will be sending your dismissal notices in the post.:P

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I have been offered some Angels from a well known bullion dealer (see Photos below), but as a newbie am not sure of their quality (grade wise). I have also been offered some more from another dealer at a price 10% higher, for no better than EF grade (AU58).

Question is..do I buy the ones in the photographs but not sure of grade, or the ones I cannot see at a higher price with the grade declared?

..it is unlikely I can afford to buy both!

i appreciate any help you can provide.

A4E56EDC-D1A2-4FB4-8433-E18D1EEDF4DF.thumb.jpeg.26fc8c6e9c37021ea849148e19f3110f.jpeg

124A1CEE-4BCA-476E-9BE4-D2B5C00BEF76.thumb.jpeg.55e7d824b1f25d6b539e52b0470d9c97.jpeg

 

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2 minutes ago, Kookaburracollector said:

I have been offered some Angels from a well known bullion dealer (see Photos below), but as a newbie am not sure of their quality (grade wise). I have also been offered some more from another dealer at a price 10% higher, for no better than EF grade (AU58).

Question is..do I buy the ones in the photographs but not sure of grade, or the ones I cannot see at a higher price with the grade declared?

..it is unlikely I can afford to buy both!

i appreciate any help you can provide.

A4E56EDC-D1A2-4FB4-8433-E18D1EEDF4DF.thumb.jpeg.26fc8c6e9c37021ea849148e19f3110f.jpeg

124A1CEE-4BCA-476E-9BE4-D2B5C00BEF76.thumb.jpeg.55e7d824b1f25d6b539e52b0470d9c97.jpeg

 

Firstly.   Why are you stacking?    For gold weight or value?    When it comes time to sell are you going to take to bullion dealer or piece up and sell individually?  Do you want 5 of the same design?      On my limited knowledge of 20 francs they shouldn’t be that much above spot

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Hi

I stack and collect, but wrt to the Angels I will look to get as many different years as I can. Clearly at some point in the future I may wish to sell, at which point the grade of the coins may become more important.

As to buying these close to spot ....let me know where please!

...and yes..it does look like the coq is about to get wet...

Edited by Kookaburracollector

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I’d buy the ones in the photo for 10% less.  Unless your planning on sending them to ngc, grading is subjective.  You could pay 10% more for the same coins in the same grade.  At least 3 of those pictures look to be in good condition and the two others are not in terrible condition either. Have you checked the dates to see if there are any rare 1’s included? Could be a nice bonus if there are.

When you go sell them don’t mention a grade.  It’s up to the buyer to interpret the grade themselfs and be happy to pay the price your offering.  

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Thank you Lea79. I think I will purchase the ones I can see.

Already checked the dates and as expected, none are rare.

As these coins are pretty common, I am not interested in getting them graded. Not keen on coins being locked away in boxes...

Still at the accumulation stage in my collecting, my children will probably be doing all the selling!!!

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I think the same about my stack.  I prefer coins in hand than in a slab. The angels are beautiful coins.  It was the first 20 franc I purchased and I’ve told my other half if I die, I wanna take the angel with me in my pocket for luck ?.  The kids can have the rest lol.  They are gettin a little harder to come across than a few yrs ago.  Is it just the angels your accumulating? 

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More interesting than Sovereigns:wacko:..........heard it all now,they are French for crying out loud.......................

No kidding apart they do look an interesting set to hunt for and certainly pleasing to the eye............Am extremely lazy this morning cant be bothered to find out for myself but how do they equate to the British Sov in terms of gold content,carat, pricing etc........

Please dont all just say find out for yourself,I'm too lazy as I said, and this way will allow someone to show off their knowledge of these matters if they are prepared to.............................

 

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@Lea79

I have just started collecting the Angels (1871-1898) prior to these I collected the roosters, and have a run from 1900 to 1914 inclusive..just looking for 1899 & 1900.

Always on the look out for a small number of Kookaburra 1oz Privy coins, as have nearly got all of those from 1990 to today.

Thats the French and Aussie coins, also have nearly all the gold 1oz buffalos from 2006...

Think I will stick to the French Angels for a while longer.

Not always a keen French lover but they do make some things way better than the Brits!!

 

A639D170-070E-4DE7-8897-F368E5AFD8AD.thumb.jpeg.679a0295bf7544d2041a42424a7d2fe1.jpeg

Just a shame the bottle is now empty!

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@Ravinella they are 22ct the same as a sovereign.  5.81g total gold content. A bullion rooster works out at £31.50 a gram and a sov is £31.35 a gram so not too much difference in price ( prices from bairds). 

There are many different varieties so lots of countries involved so can be Intresting to collect.  The more rare ones, like with sovs do command some premium.  

I collect both sovs and Latin monetary union coins, but there is a hell of a lot more variety with the 20 franc series to keep me occupied.  

I got this list off a YouTube guy the other day just to give you an insight into how many different coins are involved. It’s a long term project that’s for sure. Ps... it’s in German ?

http://www.rene-finn.de/lmugold.html

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@Kookaburracollector

I love the design on the 20 franc roosters.  You can get some in really good condition for bullion price.  I thought about filling a tube of them myself but I like collecting the different designs on some of the other 20 franc pieces.  I wouldn’t mind a 1oz buffalo tho.  They look amazing coins ?.

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