20 Franc Coins Of The LMU

[augur]

3 hours ago, Toshunya86 said:

There are in fact 3 Dinara with LMU specs.

Two 20 Dinara from the Kingdom of Serbia. 1879 & 1882.

The third one , often classified as Yugoslavia , is actually the 20 dinara 1925 - belonging to the "Kingdom of the Slovenians , Serbs & Croats" which was somewhat the ancestor of Yugoslavia.

You must be using an interesting source: my Cyrillic deciphering is a bit rusty but to me It looks like Slovenia is named last rather than first: Александар краљ Срба, Хрвата и Словенаца 😉 

And @whuamai pointed out to me that this “united kingdom” has actually three variants with differing mint marks positions. 

[Murph]

2 hours ago, augur said:

You must be using an interesting source: my Cyrillic deciphering is a bit rusty but to me It looks like Slovenia is named last rather than first: Александар краљ Срба, Хрвата и Словенаца 😉 

And @whuamai pointed out to me that this “united kingdom” has actually three variants with differing mint marks positions. 

It seems it may have been referred to in English, after the first world war until the mid 1920s iirc, with the Slovene part first at times if some webpages and maps are correct.  Word order can't always be directly translated to English so I don't know if it's worth arguing about

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Slovenes,_Croats_and_Serbs

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Murph

[Toshunya86]

DYou are right @augur. I have just started the name of the country out of memory without checking the coin on Wikipedia. Your deciphering of Cyrillic is spot on. @Murph you are right . And yes there are 3 inclinations of the "torch" - @whuamai is the undisputed  resident expert for me

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Toshunya86

[Lea79]

I got the 1925 20 dinara Yugoslavia today as a present.   When I get 5 I’ll stick a pic on.

The Napoleon Bonaparte’s are lovely coins.  Technically no French coin issued before napoleon III was coined as part of the LMU but would have been circulated and used interchangeably with the LMU nations.  Some countries didn’t even join but issued LMU equivalent currencies.  I like them all.  It makes for a more varied collection 😃.

[Lea79]

Here is the 20 dinara Yugoslavia coin.  A Nice little addition to my collection.  I also had the le franc poche book.  From what I’ve read in it so far it seems pretty good 😃.  If anyone would like a pic of a specific coin page let me know.  There are more variations to some coins than I previously realised. 

[Roy]

Penblwydd Hapus @Lea79! (albeit belated 😉)

Great collection you're building there 👍

[Lea79]

Thanks Roy 😃.

[Toshunya86]

Do you see any difference between the 8 forint 1880-1890 and the 8 forint 1870-1880 ?  For me they look exactly the same , even on picture ,but in many numismatic books they are separated in two different categories , arguing that the crown is different.

Can someone shed some light on this to me please ?

[augur]

17 hours ago, Toshunya86 said:

Do you see any difference between the 8 forint 1880-1890 and the 8 forint 1870-1880 ?

On the Hungarian 8 Forint the initial obverse was that of the younger emperor with fuller cheeks, a lower hairline and most notably the laurel wreath or “triumphal crown” had only 3 berries instead of 6. The Austrian 8 Forint used the updated portrait from day one.  

 

Double berries in the laurel wreath means Austrian 8 Forint or second Portrait Hungarian 8 Forint (1880-90)

 

Single berries in the laurel wreat is the early Hungarian 8 Forint (1870-80)

Edited December 22, 2019 by augur
Pictures added

[Toshunya86]

2 hours ago, augur said:

On the Hungarian 8 Forint the initial obverse was that of the younger emperor with fuller cheeks, a lower hairline and most notably the laurel wreath or “triumphal crown” had only 3 berries instead of 6. The Austrian 8 Forint used the updated portrait from day one.  

 

It looks like a very minor difference to me , a bit like the two 20 markkaa with the wide eagle and the narrow eagle. I am not sure yet if i will make a difference between the two coins for my personal collection , but probably I will , since I like the coin

[Lea79]

Just saw this on eBay.... a real rarity with a price tag to match!! 

[NRSovereign]

https://owlcation.com/social-sciences/The-Latin-Monetary-Union
 

interesting bit of reading may be worth a quick read

does that mean a coin we collect from papal state is not 100% correct on its gold /silver content 🤔

[Caratacus]

1 hour ago, NRSovereign said:

https://owlcation.com/social-sciences/The-Latin-Monetary-Union
 

interesting bit of reading may be worth a quick read

does that mean a coin we collect from papal state is not 100% correct on its gold /silver content 🤔

What a useful summary. Interesting that the Papal States immediately debased silver coinage and that exploitative trading was such a big issue! 

I wonder how long the Euro will last as it is debased by QE (I noticed that they have restarted it on 1st November). I believe that its something like $3trillion currently

[Toshunya86]

On 22/12/2019 at 10:18, augur said:

On the Hungarian 8 Forint the initial obverse was that of the younger emperor with fuller cheeks, a lower hairline and most notably the laurel wreath or “triumphal crown” had only 3 berries instead of 6. The Austrian 8 Forint used the updated portrait from day one.  

 

Double berries in the laurel wreath means Austrian 8 Forint or second Portrait Hungarian 8 Forint (1880-90)

 

Single berries in the laurel wreat is the early Hungarian 8 Forint (1870-80

You are a living legend @augur

[whuamai]

10 Lire San Marino 1925 R

1 Year Type

Catalogue: KM#7

Mintage: 16000 from 20000 melted -> 4 000 pieces only!

The 20 Lire piece had a Mintage of 9334 and 7334 have been melted -> 2000 pieces only!

There are some coins "test coins"marked with "PROVA" and  "PROVA DI STAMPA" over the towers which are even more rare.

 

 

[Lea79]

I looked for the 20 lire San Marino the other day and couldn’t find one for sale anywhere. A beautiful coin and a truly rare find. 

[Toshunya86]

Indeed a beautiful piece ! I d also be keen to find a 20 lire San Marino 

[whuamai]

On 22/12/2019 at 20:31, Lea79 said:

Just saw this on eBay.... a real rarity with a price tag to match!! 

Beautiful coin which i still need to find one day. That price seems a bit high. I know a source where they have one for 1200 Euros. For those who can't or don't want to afford it, the 40 Lire piece might be interesting.

[Lea79]

On 04/01/2020 at 19:07, whuamai said:

Beautiful coin which i still need to find one day. That price seems a bit high. I know a source where they have one for 1200 Euros. For those who can't or don't want to afford it, the 40 Lire piece might be interesting.

That’s a fantastic price!! It’s one of the more difficult coins to get too.

[whuamai]

I am glad to add my first 80 Lire coin to my collection. It has the weight equivalent weight of 4 x 20 Francs/Lire etc.

Unfortunately the 40 Lire is somehow thicker on the reverse, left side of the shield. The obverse is even and not thinner. Weight and dimensions are ok.

Anyone got a idea what the reason for this could be ? @Augur maybe ?

20 Lire Carlo Felice 1825 - 28k Mintage

20 Lire Carlo Felice 1827 - 150k Mintage

40 Lire Maria Luigia 1815 - 220k Mintage

80 Lire Carlo Felice 1826 - 76k Mintage

 

 

 

[augur]

I just wanted to alert you that there are forgeries out there. In specific the 1911 20 Bolívares from Venezuela:

While these forgeries have the appearance of lustrous and uncirculated coins, they seem to be minted from a copy die of a very specific version of the 1911 coin

(dot closer to 1 rather than centred between 1 and L – undocumented)

Especially the reverse is struck off centre and under magnification it will become clear that the letters and numbers of the legend are very weak and mushy:

I have seen two coins on eBay – one in the US and one in Spain. Typically the seller will have low magnification or resolution pictures to mask the shortcomings of the forgery; in terms of weight and size these coins will pass but they are definitely not worth any premium over spot (I haven’t tested the alloy).

[SilverTanner]

Not strictly LMU but another Napoleon 1812M 20 lire from Italy. New coin first and a bit cleaner! existing coin second.

I think the 1812M desigination on the holder of the new coin is incorrect and it is actually the variety with the second 1 over 0, both say 1812M which is fine for my original coin. Normally the underlying 0 is really quite obvious but there is a faint trace of it there but the more obvious difference is the distance between the 1 and 2 which is greater for the 1/0 varieties which are seen for most of the dates. Although this variety is in the reference books NGC have not certified any and PCGS have only certified a single example and that is AU50 - this coin is AU53 which I think is low and it should be AU55 when compared to other AU53's and AU58's. Now I just have to persuade NGC to change the label🤣 @Numistacker thoughts on mechanical error???

Edited February 6, 2020 by SilverTanner

[augur]

On 22/12/2019 at 09:18, augur said:

On the Hungarian 8 Forint the initial obverse was that of the younger emperor with fuller cheeks, a lower hairline and most notably the laurel wreath or “triumphal crown” had only 3 berries instead of 6. The Austrian 8 Forint used the updated portrait from day one.  

 

Double berries in the laurel wreath and a little fold in the ribbon on the neck means Austrian 8 Forint or second Portrait Hungarian 8 Forint (1880-90)

 

Single berries in the laurel wreath is the early Hungarian 8 Forint (1870-80)

I added better and more comparable pictures but admittedly on coins with some more wear the berries would be the easiest way to distinguish these. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by augur

[richatthecroft]

Evening @augur or anyone- I’m Interested on your take of this coin- 16,000 mintage and a beautiful coin- well, the Reverse at least! 

This example is currently on eBay- AU58 at over US $6000- What price range would you expect this coin to be in? 

Edited March 7, 2020 by richatthecroft

[daca]

The price is right for the coin.

one was offer here

https://thesilverforum.com/topic/25964-1908-austria-100-corona-lady-in-the-clouds-ngc-pf60/?tab=comments#comment-301243