Newb Question - Old Sovs Vs New Sovs

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, JunkBond said:

Took some more pictures, photographing coins is obviously not my strong point what with poor eyesight and shaky hands, ahh the joys of old age.

If you can convince me to keep it, I will!

looks much too thick. I always shy away from anything that doesn't meet exact dimensions.

Actually, I have a half that is ever so slightly too big. I think that's a 1887. Fooled me initially but I spotted it later when testing out one of those dies with the slots in. Must remember to take it for Lizzie to have a look at next time I'm there

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, JunkBond said:

Yes, definitely struck off centre, but were any genuine coins struck such? or is this always a sign of a fake.

I don't know for sure but I think pretty much the case. Certainly for later sovs. I have seen some 18th and early 19th century silver coins that are off centre and certainly genuine. Some of the very early half sovs were poorly struck.

There will be others who will know this aspect better than me.

[JunkBond]

Thanks @sovereignsteve,

Looks like I am better off with someone like Chards on the numismatic front and is Charles Snowden reliable?

https://charlessnowdencoins.com/webshop/gold/

[sovereignsteve]

2 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

and is Charles Snowden reliable?

don't know, never had any contact. probably as from N. Yorks

[Roy]

Bought from a seller on the Silver Forum. I still buy from him, mistakes happen 

[ilovesilverireallydo]

15 minutes ago, Roy said:

Bought from a seller on the Silver Forum. I still buy from him, mistakes happen 

That a fake @Roy ? Interesting. To this day I think my 9ct half sov is the best forgery I have seen. 

[JunkBond]

16 minutes ago, Roy said:

Bought from a seller on the Silver Forum. I still buy from him, mistakes happen 

Looks odd, worth its weight in gold I hope.

[Roy]

The mintmark is in a strange place. It's also too wide (won't fit in a capsule).

It's a curiosity. I'm intrigued by fakes, I mean, were they ever worth faking?

[MikeSol]

I think all the 1916-S Half sovereigns had this position of mint mark?

[HawkHybrid]

the pic in marsh shows it in that position as well.

 

HH

[MikeSol]

Actually looks like the mintmark placement was a bit random in 1916 

[Roy]

Yes, it is random isn't it! Well I never. 

See, fascinating! 

[Roy]

Well, surely that puts it to bed!

If only it weren't so wide....lol

[Lowlow]

I don't do Sovereigns, but for U.S. Eagles I choose whatever has the lowest price per oz of precious.  As long as you can still establish that it was, at one time, an "Eagle" and has the right amount of precious metal in it, I'm happy.  Obviously I'm not a collector, to me collectible coins are just precious metal you have to pay a higher premium for.

[ChardsCoinandBullionDealer]

On 3/1/2018 at 17:13, greendragon said:

@ChardLizzieCan you tell me,is it as big a problem as everyone fears?

do you see a large number of fakes?

 

I wouldn't say a 'large number' but certainly several each month, sometimes more. We will still buy them as we use them for training but they are never sold.

[JunkBond]

On 3/2/2018 at 17:26, JunkBond said:

I may have just picked up a fake/jewellers copy half sov from Atkinsons, it's being returned to them tomorrow, I will update here on what the outcome is.

Just had a call from Atkinsons, they have tested the coin and it's ok gold wise but they said they would have to send it off to their numismatic guy for further checks to confirm if its genuine.

I told them I had already sourced another 1887 and they offered me a full refund with no hassle.

So I would say make sure you are on the ball if buying anything other than bullion from them as it seems there is no in house expert.

[Elements]

11 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

Just had a call from Atkinsons, they have tested the coin and it's ok gold wise but they said they would have to send it off to their numismatic guy for further checks to confirm if its genuine.

I told them I had already sourced another 1887 and they offered me a full refund with no hassle.

So I would say make sure you are on the ball if buying anything other than bullion from them as it seems there is no in house expert.

Interesting. Can’t see how it can be genuine being so much thicker. Did you weight it?

[sovereignsteve]

13 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

Just had a call from Atkinsons, they have tested the coin and it's ok gold wise but they said they would have to send it off to their numismatic guy for further checks to confirm if its genuine.

I told them I had already sourced another 1887 and they offered me a full refund with no hassle.

So I would say make sure you are on the ball if buying anything other than bullion from them as it seems there is no in house expert.

Not impressive if they're not capable of measuring a coin.

[JunkBond]

21 minutes ago, Elements said:

Interesting. Can’t see how it can be genuine being so much thicker. Did you weight it?

yes, 3.98g

18 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Not impressive if they're not capable of measuring a coin.

I didn't want to "do an alex" and turn it into an anti Atkinsons rant but needless to say if I thought it looked odd being a novice then heaven knows what they are about. Anyway its proper coin dealers for me now, lesson learned.

[Sovsaver]

On 03/03/2018 at 20:45, Lowlow said:

I don't do Sovereigns....

What!

[ilovesilverireallydo]

45 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

Just had a call from Atkinsons, they have tested the coin and it's ok gold wise but they said they would have to send it off to their numismatic guy for further checks to confirm if its genuine.

I told them I had already sourced another 1887 and they offered me a full refund with no hassle.

So I would say make sure you are on the ball if buying anything other than bullion from them as it seems there is no in house expert.

If it comes as genuine surely as an oddity it’s worth much much more?

[sovereignsteve]

1 minute ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

If it comes as genuine surely as an oddity it’s worth much much more?

If it's not the right size and weight, it can't be genuine. The mint has had to be incredibly precise in the production of sovereigns since 1817. Everything is checked thoroughly.

[Elements]

Sounds strange something doesnt add up. Keep us posted about the outcome I’m intrigued!

[Sovsaver]

If the weight is correct, the diameter is correct and it has been proven to be 22 carat by PMI, then maybe it’s just a thicker than normal rim. Maybe too much pressure on the dies caused the planchet to slip and thicken the rim.

If it is 22 carat gold, then what would be the motivation for someone to produce these things (as forgeries)?

[Ansel]

24 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

yes, 3.98g

I didn't want to "do an alex" and turn it into an anti Atkinsons rant but needless to say if I thought it looked odd being a novice then heaven knows what they are about. Anyway its proper coin dealers for me now, lesson learned.

I think the main things are that you noticed something was awry and that Atkinsons refunded you. I hope they include postage including your return costs? Good job on spotting it fella. 

 

8 minutes ago, Sovsaver said:

If it is 22 carat gold, then what would be the motivation for someone to produce these things (as forgeries)?

I'm sure I read somewhere that sovereigns were worth more than their weight in gold in some parts of the world? I'm sure our more knowledgeable members can attest to this or correct me?