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TheGoldSovereign

Sovereign Errors, Overdates and Varieties

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Hi @sg86 so the square at the top is neck from the front as it has been Cast and neck has come through? I was looking at the Marsh book and for some time on the 1872 die cast number 1 it did say none in a few of the books but in the latest edition it has number 1 listed,  I haven’t seen another number 1 or a full shield back with these inclusions on them.. is there any more number 1 die cast out there? I have seen plenty of other casts.. 3 5 6 22 56.. of it is common then it just another sovereign then?? 

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48 minutes ago, sg86 said:

Hi @Yorky those are both just die clashes, quite common. The top bit by the crown is vicky's neck :)

 

Interesting. You say they are quite common, do you have many examples. I have only seen the odd one for sale but never had one in my hand.


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20 hours ago, Yorky said:

Hi @sg86 the top right of the crown the square imprint, also looks like a later smelt was poured at the time with the gold colour change quite noticeable, and there is a No 1 at the bottom with a rim running through it across the bottom. 

If you want to understand how coins get over date errors etc you need to research how they are produced. There is no casting process involves. Blank discs of gold are crushed between two metal dies so as to imprint the design on both sides.


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9 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

If you want to understand how coins get over date errors etc you need to research how they are produced. There is no casting process involves. Blank discs of gold are crushed between two metal dies so as to imprint the design on both sides.

@sovereignsteve thanks for that mate, every day is a school day to me and I know nothing about the subject to be honest, very newbie and any help would be much appreciated. 

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16 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Interesting. You say they are quite common, do you have many examples. I have only seen the odd one for sale but never had one in my hand.

@sovereignsteve I haven’t seen one with the number 1 never mind the inclusions, if this is a gold disk that is stamped then how is the gold on the right a different shade? Is there anywhere I can send or bring this coin to be looked at? I’m in the Manchester area.. 

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2 minutes ago, Yorky said:

@sovereignsteve I haven’t seen one with the number 1 never mind the inclusions, if this is a gold disk that is stamped then how is the gold on the right a different shade? Is there anywhere I can send or bring this coin to be looked at? I’m in the Manchester area.. 

I am not seeing any significant colour differences on your photo. The lighter yellow of the right side is the original colour, the darker shade to the left just looks like a form of aging or staining caused by environmental factors over the last 150 years, quite common to see.

I do not know of any coin shops in your area, my go to dealer for numismatic issues is Chards in Blackpool.


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4 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Interesting. You say they are quite common, do you have many examples. I have only seen the odd one for sale but never had one in my hand.

Yes loads, I dont split them out though as dont really see the point, some are more severe than other so I guess they could be more interesting.

Usually you see her hair on the reverse and there are tons where you can see the harp on the obverse by her neck or in her ear.


The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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4 hours ago, Yorky said:

Hi @sg86 so the square at the top is neck from the front as it has been Cast and neck has come through? I was looking at the Marsh book and for some time on the 1872 die cast number 1 it did say none in a few of the books but in the latest edition it has number 1 listed,  I haven’t seen another number 1 or a full shield back with these inclusions on them.. is there any more number 1 die cast out there? I have seen plenty of other casts.. 3 5 6 22 56.. of it is common then it just another sovereign then?? 

Yes of course there are many 1s, I have 6, there would have been around 20,000 minted, I believe that's the correct approximate figure for a dies lifetime 

I see you are hoping this is a rare coin but unfortunately it isnt at all

Edited by sg86

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The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

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2 hours ago, sg86 said:

Yes loads, I dont split them out though as dont really see the point, some are more severe than other so I guess they could be more interesting.

Usually you see her hair on the reverse and there are tons where you can see the harp on the obverse by her neck or in her ear.

any particular years and die numbers stand out?


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2 hours ago, sg86 said:

Yes of course there are many 1s, I have 6, there would have been around 20,000 minted, I believe that's the correct approximate figure for a dies lifetime 

I see you are hoping this is a rare coin but unfortunately it isnt at all

Not hoping just wondering what the marks were? And when I looked online in the Marsh it did say none  for die 1, so everything is conflicting sometimes, like I say I’m a newbie and just wondering if anyone has seen any similar, I’ve bought and sold a few sovereigns now but not many at all, so every day is a learning curve, but obviously I’m looking for a rare one.. 😉

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On 16/11/2019 at 17:58, Yorky said:

Not hoping just wondering what the marks were? And when I looked online in the Marsh it did say none  for die 1, so everything is conflicting sometimes, like I say I’m a newbie and just wondering if anyone has seen any similar, I’ve bought and sold a few sovereigns now but not many at all, so every day is a learning curve, but obviously I’m looking for a rare one.. 😉

Well now you know what the marks are :)

Not sure what version of Marsh you are looking at but mine clearly shows Die 1 for 1872.

Though the site isn't complete you can check the database for coins, and always feel free to email me if you feel something isn't right, missing or you need clarification: https://thegoldsovereign.com/coin/5600-1/1872-victoria-shield-gold-sovereign-london-die-1

As it so happens I'm actually just sorting a batch of 1870s and have just come across an 1872 die 1 with the exact same die clash :)

20191119_091635.thumb.jpg.27b89fb9d952ef651543fc604af0d78c.jpg

Edited by sg86

The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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On 16/11/2019 at 17:29, sovereignsteve said:

any particular years and die numbers stand out?

Hmm, nothing in particular actually no, I'll keep my eye out for some more extreme ones in future :). As you can see in the above post I found one the same as Yorky, I only noticed it because of the date and die and remembered his post though, not because it was particularly stand out, though it is a little worse than most.

You must have seen before lots of lines running though the legends and dates, some time ago I thought they were die flaws but then realised when I saw a more extreme one it was the shape of her head and hair, then realised all those marks on the obverse I thought were tooling were in fact elements of the shield :)

 


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The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

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@Yorky As you can see it's in the last image, not sure how old the book is in the first image, first edition??! :D

"When a planchet fails to enter the coining chamber and both the hammer die strikes the anvil die, imparting design features of the opposing die into each die face. When a planchet does enter the coining chamber it is struck with the clashed dies and will show details of the obverse on the reverse and visa versa."


The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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Now this is a first for sure!

A colon punch in between the V and I of VICTORIA 😀

random-colon.thumb.jpg.f0f3a5a6d23b80ad147389d521d00977.jpg


The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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3 hours ago, Goldenbear said:

Any ideas on the G here? It looks like it might have something beneath it.

I agree, looks like a lettwer with straight left and bottom edges, complete with serifs.


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18 hours ago, Goldenbear said:

Any ideas on the G here? It looks like it might have something beneath it.

F56197BD-9AC5-4EE1-97FB-11BE847399F4.jpeg

If you're asking for advice on errors you really really need to take better pictures, it's not a moan its absolutely critical. Ideally with a scope, but at the very least a very good macro lens.

There is no way to know anything imho from this image. Anything that doesn't look normal to the eye could simply be a die flaw, are you even checking such errors yourself with a scope? It's good advice trust me, something looks a certain way with a loupe and when you get it under a scope its dirt, a scratch, a flaw or something similar.

Edited by sg86

The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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14 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

new one on me

Yea I've never seen a misplaced stop on any shield, you would expect something like this *could* happen on a coin pre die numbers, but what makes this even more interesting is this is on a colonial mint sovereign! Mistakes are few and far between here 


The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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@sovereignsteve Don't believe it, just found another one so confirmed variety!

error2.thumb.jpg.09cfe38fdab6cc37cdffb8aa2ac950d8.jpg


The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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The colour of the metal is wrong too and the reeding looks crude but it is hard to tell from a photograph. Why not take it back to the dealer and ask him to double check the gold content?

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On 31/12/2019 at 20:56, thisislondon said:

The colour of the metal is wrong too and the reeding looks crude but it is hard to tell from a photograph. Why not take it back to the dealer and ask him to double check the gold content?

Wrong thread? :D

 


The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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