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Auctions


Elements

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Has anyone had much experience with physical auctions? (Not like eBay)

I follow a few but never seem to see any bargains.

here’s an example. This 1927 SA sov sold for £250 and with buyers premium makes it £310

http://fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/lot/169807

why pay that when a cursory search shows the same available at bullionbypost for £291 and prob cheaper elsewhere with a bit of hunting.

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One thing I will say about auctions is assume all proofs have been handled.

Coins may have been carefully looked after by a collector for all his life and as soon as they kick the bucket they end up at the auction.

Potential buyers will likely take them out of capsules, weigh them and maybe even lick them.

The auction house will have probably stuck the lot number on the packaging with a sticker which never fully comes off.

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Yeah I think you’re right which is why I’d expect some better bargains at these places compared to a dealer. It’s the buyer’s premium that seems to be the bargain killer not always the strike price.

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14 minutes ago, HelpingHands said:

One thing I will say about auctions is assume all proofs have been handled.

Coins may have been carefully looked after by a collector for all his life and as soon as they kick the bucket they end up at the auction.

Potential buyers will likely take them out of capsules, weigh them and maybe even lick them.

The auction house will have probably stuck the lot number on the packaging with a sticker which never fully comes off.

I never know u have this idea about licking a coin :D, have u tried it 

MY TOTAL FORUM TRADE FEEDBACK IS 100 AND IT IS 100%

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10 minutes ago, HelpingHands said:

Not yet but some people have some odd ways of testing/molesting coins.

 

I haven't tried licking a coin before but I must admit I have tried to smell it ;), I break the toned coins  slabs open and I can smell  perfume :lol: or maybe wash up liquid 

MY TOTAL FORUM TRADE FEEDBACK IS 100 AND IT IS 100%

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I have had the same experience at iCollector. It seems like a decent price until you add in the 13-18% buyer premium. When I am participating in those auctions I always have a list open with the cost AFTER the buyer premium. Sometimes I end up striking a great deal while other times I see CURRENT YEAR gold or silver go for a few percent above spot (less than what the stores sell it for) but then after the premiums it is way overpriced. I think this is just a dupe for those that find the auction and don't notice the premiums as they are not usually obvious, especially for those used to eBay or other auctions sites where what you bid is what you pay. In Canada, if gold is less than 99.5% pure then there is tax on top of that too...so with the 13% tax in Ontario and the usual premium...that's 31% above the selling price for something like a Sovereign! Eep.

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Maybe people turning up at auctions believe this is the place for real bargains.
Not helped by the likes of BBC property programmes showing houses being sold cheaply at auction that after a lick of paint or a new cheap kitchen net the owners a tidy quick buck.

Some people attending auctions looking for trinkets and antiques might be tempted to bid on coins with zero knowledge just knowing gold is precious and because there are bidders this must be worth acquiring. There is also the pressure of being at an auction where you feel it necessary to purchase something perhaps ?

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So here’s another auction ending tonight, use this as my example to see if auctions are worth it

https://tlhauctioneers.co.uk/

8 half sovereign on offer tonight. 23.5% buyers premium, need to add 20% VAT onto the buyers premium, then 3% internet surcharge. That’s around 31% added to the hammer price. Treat them as simply bullion value and compare to Atkinson’s £127 each, means they should go for no more than around £97 each.

Let the games begin!

 

By the way HGM would give the seller £109 right now for a half sov so if they go for less than that, then auctions aren’t worth it for the seller.

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11 minutes ago, blackadder said:

31% is just a pure ripoff :P what do sellers pay?

I’m unsure about this particular action house. Some charge commission of around 15% (plus VAT). I didn’t factor any commission into the  amount the seller needs to realise to make it more profitable than somewhere like HGM.

not sure why buyers get screwed over so badly, they are providing more of a service to sellers I would say (valuation, marketing etc)

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2 minutes ago, Elements said:

I’m unsure about this particular action house. Some charge commission of around 15% (plus VAT). I didn’t factor any commission into the  amount the seller needs to realise to make it more profitable than somewhere like HGM.

not sure why buyers get screwed over so badly, they are providing more of a service to sellers I would say (valuation, marketing etc)

Well most of them it's the sellers that get screwed over more.Maybe they have a low sellers commission and it's the buyers on this one that pick up all the commission.

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1 minute ago, blackadder said:

Well most of them it's the sellers that get screwed over more.Maybe they have a low sellers commission and it's the buyers on this one that pick up all the commission.

In the end a sensible buyer would factor in the buyers premium and lower the offer accordingly, so ultimately it should be the seller getting screwed over.

House wins either way!

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5 hours ago, Pete said:

Maybe people turning up at auctions believe this is the place for real bargains.
Not helped by the likes of BBC property programmes showing houses being sold cheaply at auction that after a lick of paint or a new cheap kitchen net the owners a tidy quick buck.

Some people attending auctions looking for trinkets and antiques might be tempted to bid on coins with zero knowledge just knowing gold is precious and because there are bidders this must be worth acquiring. There is also the pressure of being at an auction where you feel it necessary to purchase something perhaps ?

Licking paint is a step too far!

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17 hours ago, Elements said:

Has anyone had much experience with physical auctions? (Not like eBay)

I follow a few but never seem to see any bargains.

here’s an example. This 1927 SA sov sold for £250 and with buyers premium makes it £310

http://fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/lot/169807

why pay that when a cursory search shows the same available at bullionbypost for £291 and prob cheaper elsewhere with a bit of hunting.

I’ve had some great bargains bidding online, days in advance of physical auctions. If you account for the premium in your maximum bid, no nasty surprises.

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5 minutes ago, Shinus73 said:

I’ve had some great bargains bidding online, days in advance of physical auctions. If you account for the premium in your maximum bid, no nasty surprises.

That’s great ?. I’ve watched loads of online auctions on the sidelines but haven’t got in on the action, just haven’t seen any worthwhile.

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On the other hand I have seen coins go for well over the estimate.

I spent a happy hour yesterday at my local auction house looking over coins in an upcoming auction.  It was before I saw this thread so I did not get to lick any of them.

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What the advantage in putting a bid in days in advance? It still gets carried through to the day right?

18 minutes ago, Shinus73 said:

I’ve had some great bargains bidding online, days in advance of physical auctions. If you account for the premium in your maximum bid, no nasty surprises.

 

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10 minutes ago, Elements said:

What the advantage in putting a bid in days in advance? It still gets carried through to the day right?

 

The first bid takes precendence.  However, this does not apply against bidders who are physically in the room on the sale day.

For example:

If Bidder A bids £200 GBP four days before the auction, and Bidder B also bids £200 GBP but just two days before the auction, the bid will go to Bidder A.  However, if Bidder C is in the room and wants to bid £200 (on the increment), it will nearly always go to the bidder in the room.  Or, alternatively, the auctioneer will offer the in-room bidder a low bid to ensure that they win the lot.  I've bid £1500 for an item before the auction, and it sold for £1,505 in the room - a blatant disregard of proper practice, but all too common.

 

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4 minutes ago, Clens92 said:

The first bid takes precendence.  However, this does not apply against bidders who are physically in the room on the sale day.

For example:

If Bidder A bids £200 GBP four days before the auction, and Bidder B also bids £200 GBP but just two days before the auction, the bid will go to Bidder A.  However, if Bidder C is in the room and wants to bid £200 (on the increment), it will nearly always go to the bidder in the room.  Or, alternatively, the auctioneer will offer the in-room bidder a low bid to ensure that they win the lot.  I've bid £1500 for an item before the auction, and it sold for £1,505 in the room - a blatant disregard of proper practice, but all too common.

 

Interesting, thanks for the info

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