How to invest 5000€

[Beekepper]

Hello guys. Im new. Well, im thinking to invest some money to metals, around 5000€. Please give me some good advice, what to buy and what coins-bars. Im also a little bit affraid about ordering gold bars from internet, becouse of the lattest news about fake gold bare from mint!?- but gold wouldn be a problem, i get good price in my country-Slovenia.  But which site do you recomment for VAT-free silver (in SLovenia we pay 20% vat), i was thinking about goldsilver.be, but then i read review from quicksilver user,- a company with such approche-NO GO.

Thakns for any help and sorry for my english, bbut i think you all understand what i mean.

All the best to all of you

[Finbinfin]

silver-to-go and it's sister site coininvest for gold have always been good for me if you don't want to use goldsilver.be. They are based in Germany and there's no VAT on silver bullion. If you're just investing in the metal then maybe I suggest bars or cheap bullion - Philarmoniker may be a good choice in Central Europe?

[MickB]

Dobro jutro @Beekepper , there is a dealer in Maribor called; 1oz.si 

If you have a look through the compiled list of bullion dealers in General Precious Metals he's on there. I've bought from him in the past and never been a problem.

There's quite a few dealers to choose from in the list, many other forum members can give you better advice on the others.

 

[Markh]

1 hour ago, Beekepper said:

Hello guys. Im new. Well, im thinking to invest some money to metals, around 5000€. Please give me some good advice, what to buy and what coins-bars. Im also a little bit affraid about ordering gold bars from internet, becouse of the lattest news about fake gold bare from mint!?- but gold wouldn be a problem, i get good price in my country-Slovenia.  But which site do you recomment for VAT-free silver (in SLovenia we pay 20% vat), i was thinking about goldsilver.be, but then i read review from quicksilver user,- a company with such approche-NO GO.

Thakns for any help and sorry for my english, bbut i think you all understand what i mean.

All the best to all of you

I've used celticgold.eu a few times.. their first rate.. Vat free silver from Estonia. Very well run. good info and trusted. Communication is excellent any questions are answered in full.. I did a tester purchase at first before I fired off a big order.....all orders were spot on. There FAQ page give good advice how to check packages for weight codes. boxes well rapped with security tape.

[Beekepper]

Thank you MickB. i will take a look. im just 40km from MB. thank you all for advice. Ohh Markh great, yesterday i was looking at CG but havent found a lot of reviews about company, its nice to hear that it is good company. they have good prices and disscount on orders above 100 coins. Im thinking 1x 100 Maple Leaf 1oz and 1x 100 Vienna Philharmonic 1oz and some gold bar or coin. What do you think about that? Im buyining for longterm 20-30 years.

[sixgun]

Don't get gold bars. i was just reading about a recent case where a jeweller bought a gold bar from a Royal Canadian Mint. This has hit the headlines. It is too easy to fake a gold bar. They will come in the right looking wrapping. Unless you have the equipment and knowledge about how to test the bar and you can get your cash back if it doesn't check out, steer clear.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-30/could-be-huge-gold-bar-certified-royal-canadian-mint-exposed-fake

Backyard Bullion [a forum member] has a monthly order with goldsilver.be where members of the forum send him orders for coins and he sends a single order into goldsilver.be. He gets the coins and then sends them to the people who ordered them. This works out cheaper for people in the UK as the postage charges are less but it might works out more expensive for you. i have ordered from goldsilver.be a few times. There has been an issue with the couriers they use. They say they send coins all over the world. As far as Europe is concerned their prices are good.

The other option is the German dealers. There is a price comparison website http://gold.de. This will give you are good idea of where the best prices in Germany are. i have never had problems with German dealers. The other option is as already mentioned http://celticgold.eu in Estonia [this outfit is actually German].

i can see you are going for the cheapest silver coins. The Maple Leaf and the Philharmonic. These are good prices for 1oz of silver. In the end this may be the right decision to get as much silver as cheaply as possible. i have both coins. i got them cheaply and i view them simply as silver. The Philharmonic is the same coin every year. It will only be worth the value of the silver, it has little to no value as a coin. There are lots of interesting versions of the Maple. Some of them become collectible. The BIG problem with silver coins from the Royal Canadian Mint is they WILL develop milk spot. Read about milk spot if you do not know what it is. The Philharmonic often develops milk spot as well. People who collect coins know if they bought a tube of Maple Leaf coins they will develop milk spot. People don't want to pay more than the value of the silver for a coin with milk spot.

So both coins you mention are very basic silver coins you will be able to sell again but you will not get anymore than the value of the silver back. That means in the short term you will lose money. If as i expect the price of silver goes up a lot. It is not a matter of if it goes up, it is only a matter of when. Your basic silver coins will be worth many times the price you paid and it won't matter if they have milk spot. People have been waiting for silver to go up since 2011. Quite a few people here paid higher prices for their silver and have lost money or wish they had not bought the coins. Patience will be rewarded. i have quite a bit of gold but i mainly have silver for the simple reason i am certain it will become many times more valuable, it is an absolute bargain at the moment.

i would recommend Australian Perth Mint Lunar series coins. Maybe not the 1oz b/c the other weights can make more money over time. These coins are very good quality and rarely develop milk spot. They all come in capsules. If you keep the coins for a few years you will probably make more money. Do not be afraid to collect coins that are a bit more expensive if they are good quality and have collector potential.

If however you do not want to take a gamble on silver you could buy good value gold coins. You could store 5000€ gold very easily. In the UK people recommend the gold sovereign coins. They are good value and fairly easy to sell. You do not pay a lot more than the value of the gold. They are completely tax free in the UK so even if gold went up to $60 000/oz there is no tax to pay [at the moment]. There may be a similar coin in Slovakia which people collect there. The Austrian Ducat is a nice coin.

http://www.hattongardenmetals.com/buy/pid105/aus-ducat-4.aspx

This could be a coin for Slovakia maybe. There are some nice small gold coins that are not too high a premium.

 

[Markh]

16 minutes ago, Beekepper said:

Thank you MickB. i will take a look. im just 40km from MB. thank you all for advice. Ohh Markh great, yesterday i was looking at CG but havent found a lot of reviews about company, its nice to hear that it is good company. they have good prices and disscount on orders above 100 coins. Im thinking 1x 100 Maple Leaf 1oz and 1x 100 Vienna Philharmonic 1oz and some gold bar or coin. What do you think about that? Im buyining for longterm 20-30 years.

I'd go with a mix of gold and silver too. 

With silver I think it's definitely a long term relationship because of the Vat, unless you get into the modern numismatic coins which can be good to flip, but you need some insight and a bit of luck.

[Beekepper]

11 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Don't get gold bars. i was just reading about a recent case where a jeweller bought a gold bar from a Royal Canadian Mint. This has hit the headlines. It is too easy to fake a gold bar. They will come in the right looking wrapping. Unless you have the equipment and knowledge about how to test the bar and you can get your cash back if it doesn't check out, steer clear.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-30/could-be-huge-gold-bar-certified-royal-canadian-mint-exposed-fake

Backyard Bullion [a forum member] has a monthly order with goldsilver.be where members of the forum send him orders for coins and he sends a single order into goldsilver.be. He gets the coins and then sends them to the people who ordered them. This works out cheaper for people in the UK as the postage charges are less but it might works out more expensive for you. i have ordered from goldsilver.be a few times. There has been an issue with the couriers they use. They say they send coins all over the world. As far as Europe is concerned their prices are good.

The other option is the German dealers. There is a price comparison website http://gold.de. This will give you are good idea of where the best prices in Germany are. i have never had problems with German dealers. The other option is as already mentioned http://celticgold.eu in Estonia [this outfit is actually German].

i can see you are going for the cheapest silver coins. The Maple Leaf and the Philharmonic. These are good prices for 1oz of silver. In the end this may be the right decision to get as much silver as cheaply as possible. i have both coins. i got them cheaply and i view them simply as silver. The Philharmonic is the same coin every year. It will only be worth the value of the silver, it has little to no value as a coin. There are lots of interesting versions of the Maple. Some of them become collectible. The BIG problem with silver coins from the Royal Canadian Mint is they WILL develop milk spot. Read about milk spot if you do not know what it is. The Philharmonic often develops milk spot as well. People who collect coins know if they bought a tube of Maple Leaf coins they will develop milk spot. People don't want to pay more than the value of the silver for a coin with milk spot.

So both coins you mention are very basic silver coins you will be able to sell again but you will not get anymore than the value of the silver back. That means in the short term you will lose money. If as i expect the price of silver goes up a lot. It is not a matter of if it goes up, it is only a matter of when. Your basic silver coins will be worth many times the price you paid and it won't matter if they have milk spot. People have been waiting for silver to go up since 2011. Quite a few people here paid higher prices for their silver and have lost money or wish they had not bought the coins. Patience will be rewarded. i have quite a bit of gold but i mainly have silver for the simple reason i am certain it will become many times more valuable, it is an absolute bargain at the moment.

i would recommend Australian Perth Mint Lunar series coins. Maybe not the 1oz b/c the other weights can make more money over time. These coins are very good quality and rarely develop milk spot. They all come in capsules. If you keep the coins for a few years you will probably make more money. Do not be afraid to collect coins that are a bit more expensive if they are good quality and have collector potential.

If however you do not want to take a gamble on silver you could buy good value gold coins. You could store 5000€ gold very easily. In the UK people recommend the gold sovereign coins. They are good value and fairly easy to sell. You do not pay a lot more than the value of the gold. They are completely tax free in the UK so even if gold went up to $60 000/oz there is no tax to pay [at the moment]. There may be a similar coin in Slovakia which people collect there. The Austrian Ducat is a nice coin.

http://www.hattongardenmetals.com/buy/pid105/aus-ducat-4.aspx

This could be a coin for Slovakia maybe. There are some nice small gold coins that are not too high a premium.

 

Thank you so much. Very usefull words u told me. I will have that in mind. Just to let you know, im from Slovenia, not Slovakia. Slovenia= GOLD medal in EU basketball. And yes i see your point of view, but as i said im buying longterm and my point is that price will go up x-times thats why i want to get as much silver for the money. but after reading your words i will think twice what would be the best deal. Thank you.

[Pete]

If you can buy silver VAT free then the big question is whether to buy gold or silver or maybe some of both.

Gold is not cheap right now but the buy / sell margins are very close so you really cannot go wrong unless the price crashes and you are holding gold but the chances are it would recover over a relatively short time in any investment cycle. Gold is seen more as a preservation of wealth as normal money loses value through quantative easing or inflation.

Silver in my personal opinion is undervalued when comparing its price to gold - the gold silver ratio.
Therefore although more speculative, silver has potentially more upside and as this is a commodity that is most likely market manipulated, the price of silver could rocket without warning.
The problem with silver is VAT and dealer margins so if you can source your silver cheaply then this is what I would buy.
 

A difficult decision starting off but €5000 doesn't buy you much physical gold to hold in your hand - just about 5 one ounce Krugerrands.

[JunkBond]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

If you can buy silver VAT free then the big question is whether to buy gold or silver or maybe some of both.

Gold is not cheap right now but the buy / sell margins are very close so you really cannot go wrong unless the price crashes and you are holding gold but the chances are it would recover over a relatively short time in any investment cycle. Gold is seen more as a preservation of wealth as normal money loses value through quantative easing or inflation.

Silver in my personal opinion is undervalued when comparing its price to gold - the gold silver ratio.
Therefore although more speculative, silver has potentially more upside and as this is a commodity that is most likely market manipulated, the price of silver could rocket without warning.
The problem with silver is VAT and dealer margins so if you can source your silver cheaply then this is what I would buy.
 

A difficult decision starting off but €5000 doesn't buy you much physical gold to hold in your hand - just about 5 one ounce Krugerrands.

This is great advice @Pete I say get the stacking bug satisfied with some silver bullion then get some sovs, 1/4 oz gold coins as wealth protection.

[Beekepper]

2 hours ago, Beekepper said:

Can someone tell me the differience:

Grading:

- Mint-State; Un-circulated

- Extremely fine - Circulated

- Mint-state; Circulated

- Circulated, fine

 

 

[sovereignsteve]

37 minutes ago, Beekepper said:

 

Hi and welcome. I'm just curious about your name; are you a apiarist by profession or hobby and made a little mistake with your spelling or does it have some deeper meaning?

[Kman]

Feel free to check out this thread

[Beekepper]

2 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Hi and welcome. I'm just curious about your name; are you a apiarist by profession or hobby and made a little mistake with your spelling or does it have some deeper meaning?

Hi, the nick name is beekepper just becouse the beekeeper was already used by another pearson on our bee forum in Slovenia. and i like to have same nick on diffrent forums. We have around 400 bee families.

[Beekepper]

2 hours ago, Kman said:

Feel free to check out this thread

Thank you Kman. Really happy with all the help you provide.

[Markh]

@Beekepper do you sell all things related to honey. Just curious as I love me honey it's one of nature's wonder's

[Beekepper]

5 minutes ago, Markh said:

@Beekepper do you sell all things related to honey. Just curious as I love me honey it's one of nature's wonder's

Of course, our bees produce 5 to 6 different flavours of honey. We have authentic Carniolan honey bee. Also we are selling, pollen,propolis, honey liquer and some other good stuff.

And yes indeed it is a wonder what bees can do. Nice to hear such opinion.

[Markh]

8 minutes ago, Beekepper said:

Of course, our bees produce 5 to 6 different flavours of honey. We have authentic Carniolan honey bee. Also we are selling, pollen,propolis, honey liquer and some other good stuff.

And yes indeed it is a wonder what bees can do. Nice to hear such opinion.

Link a website if that possible. ?

[Beekepper]

41 minutes ago, Markh said:

Link a website if that possible. ?

http://www.cebelarstvo-zvikart.si/Site/Izdelki.html   

Izdelki=products Tomorow will scan the brocshure we have in english and post it if you want.

[CoinFinders]

I wanted to jump in on the counterfeit gold bar topic that came from an RCM Bank.  For those that don't know:  the Royal Canadian Mint also sells their coins and bars through the RCM Bank.  So anyone can walk in and buy or sell gold/silver RCM coins or bars "over the counter" from the bank teller.  In the case of the counterfeit coin, it was an RCM 1oz bar bought by a jeweler.  However, the bar and the packaging was counterfeit, and so the jeweler returned to the bank for a refund.  From what I've read so far, it was determined the jeweler was only a buyer (not a seller), and initially the story thought he had been defrauded after the purchase.  Now I'm reading that the jeweler is being looked at to confirm he was the actual buyer of the coin (security footage, receipts, etc).  My personal OPINION:  the RCM is not a slouchy organization (including their banking arm), and I find it hard to believe they would purchase a sloppy counterfeit over the counter, and then turn around and sell it without "someone" at the bank noticing the issues, or at least checking for weight and purity at the time of the purchase.  Plus, the newer bars and coins have anti-counterfeiting measures (to include a special machine to read the bullion) to make it harder to do this.  It's called "Bullion DNA" and you can see it here:  http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about-the-mint/bullion-dna-8900026#.WhCuhMte52Z

 

[CoinFinders]

However, it's been confirmed that the counterfeit bar did not originate from the Royal Canadian Mint, nor was it sold from the Mint to any of its dealers.  It arrived at the RMC Bank in question via the secondary market.  Thanks from Scotty at CoinFinders  www.coinfinders.com

[sixgun]

@CoinFinders i heard the jeweller started to use the bar and it clearly wasn't gold. Most buyers would have never taken the bar out of its packaging. These bars coulld been sold several times over before the fakery were discovered, if it were ever discovered. i have heard of horror stories where bars are sold in official looking packages which were fake. i have no way of knowing if they are true but if something is possible it probably is happening.

i remember watching a youtube video where a Chinese American guy was showing his gold bars and had one where it looked the gold coloured metal cover had 'peeled off' in a small area. i saw this several years ago and as i remember was a Royal Canadian Mint bar. In my opinion they are all suspect. 

[Markh]

@sixgun I've never bought any gold that comes in a packet as you cannot even do a rudimentary ping test or weight it unless you open it. I don't envisaged dealer's letting anyone open a packet for them to say don't want it now. Best stay away from bars in packets.

[JunkBond]

21 minutes ago, sixgun said:

@CoinFinders i heard the jeweller started to use the bar and it clearly wasn't gold. Most buyers would have never taken the bar out of its packaging. These bars coulld been sold several times over before the fakery were discovered, if it were ever discovered. i have heard of horror stories where bars are sold in official looking packages which were fake. i have no way of knowing if they are true but if something is possible it probably is happening.

i remember watching a youtube video where a Chinese American guy was showing his gold bars and had one where it looked the gold coloured metal cover had 'peeled off' in a small area. i saw this several years ago and as i remember was a Royal Canadian Mint bar. In my opinion they are all suspect. 

That reminds me of chocolate coins at Christmas... truly frightening! 

[sixgun]

15 minutes ago, Markh said:

@sixgun I've never bought any gold that comes in a packet as you cannot even do a rudimentary ping test or weight it unless you open it. I don't envisaged dealer's letting anyone open a packet for them to say don't want it now. Best stay away from bars in packets.

Yes i see the pretty PAMP bars in their packages. The dealer certainly would not let you take it out of its packet and the vast majority of buyers will not remove them either, they would lose value taken out of the OMP. The only bars i have ever got in OMP's were some Royal Mint silver bars. Altogether there is too much downside risk with gold bars. There are so many nice gold coins with details that give you a fighting chance of spotting a fake.