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On 09/08/2018 at 07:41, sg86 said:

If the 1841 wasn't rare enough, how about an 1863 - 827 on truncation?  ? ?

 

 

 

4601-3.png

Could you explain what this means and what I am looking for in the picture? Thanks :)

 Edit: oh I see...I was looking at the date numbers for overstamping 

Edited by JohnA

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25 minutes ago, JohnA said:

Could you explain what this means and what I am looking for in the picture? Thanks :)

 Edit: oh I see...I was looking at the date numbers for overstamping 

Yes the 827 on truncation instead of w.w.

There were very few of these minted, I believe the theory is they were minted from an ingot whose number was 827. G P Dyer wrote an article on this coin, he was a Librarian at the Royal Mint, it was published in a Spinks circular in the 70/80s, I've got a copy on it's way from @CadmiumGreen who kindly sourced it for me.

A very interesting and very rare coin indeed, very few in existence and virtually none in good grade.

 

edit:

"This intriguing variety first came to light in 1954 when an 827 numbered truncation with die number 22 reverse turned up in the Hatton Hoard of gold found in Derbyshire. This initial coin ended up in the British Museum Collection. This variety is termed the “second” variety of the “827” Sovereign coupled with the die number 22 reverse. These are called the second variety as it is thought that this die numbered “827” Sovereign was produced and struck from a second batch of re-melted “scissel” and scrap emanating from the Rothschild brittle ingots delivered to the Mint around November to December 1863. Of the very few specimens known the Bentley specimen is one of the finest extant"

616163008_Screenshotfrom2018-08-1113-50-12.thumb.png.9ef40d2c208a75e8286d3014c1e82adf.png

 

"Returning to the 827 sovereign, it is fairly well established that the 827 on the obverse truncation was associated with a specific ingot that, like the gold from which the Ansell sovereign was made, was at first thought to be unusable. Records show that refiners Rothschild’s and Brown & Wingrove conducted further processing on two 200-ounce ingots (numbered 816 and 830) for the Mint, so it is thought that the initial batch of 827 sovereigns with no die number (S.3852F) were made from a similar ingot and proved to be acceptable for circulation. The subsequent 827 sovereigns with die number 22 on the reverse (S.3853A) were evidently made from the melted scrap and “scissel” (cuttings) left over from making the initial batch. Because of this, it is probable that all of the non-die numbered 827 sovereigns were produced and the results evaluated before full rate production of die numbered sovereigns began in 1863 (S.3853). Figure E shows the 827 on truncation that distinguishes the variant."

 

Edited by sg86

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28 minutes ago, Kritika said:

Today I received, One with and one without....:)

 

 

Perth Mint Dragon and Phoenix 5.jpg

Both lovely coins I like that design, took me a while to notice the difference, was it a manufacturing fault or an early production type, which one is worth more, or is there no difference.

And finally why live in a dump like Tatooine, wretched hive of scum and villainy.

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2 hours ago, SILVERFINGER said:

Both lovely coins I like that design, took me a while to notice the difference, was it a manufacturing fault or an early production type, which one is worth more, or is there no difference.

And finally why live in a dump like Tatooine, wretched hive of scum and villainy.

There is a really good post on here about the differences between the two but I cant find it anymore :wacko:

I don't mind living in Mos Espa's, weathers good and the authorities leave you well alone. So as long as you stay clear of the Hutt gangsters its not a bad place to do business really, although I must admittedly without the BYB group orders postage would be a real bitch.

 

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