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1855 sovereign help


Micky9776

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8 minutes ago, Micky9776 said:

what do you guys think about this 1855 sov, is it a Normal, WW on truncation incuse or is it the R5 - WW raised on truncation?

Where have you got those classifications from? It looks like a standard, common Spink S3852C WW in relief. Marsh MM38 (although Marsh doesn't really classify the WW incuse as a separate variety, just mentions that some are like that). What is the R5 variety?

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Got it from the new revised The Gold Sovereign book by marsh page 35, number 38 and 38A 
38A is down as R5 5-10 examples estimated to have survived.
whats your thoughts [mention=413]sovereignsteve[/mention] ? Could this be a very rare sovereign? Thought I would ask the subject matter expert [emoji4] 
I have the same coin and I think someone has their sums wrong.
PCGS have Graded 15 and NGC 9 but it is Rarer than the Incuse Variety which have had 35 and 51 respectively graded.
So of the raised variety that makes 24 plus mine plus the one you've seen.
If you take the Grading numbers as a guide (not an exact science), the Raised is about 3.5 times rarer than the Incuse - R5 questionable in my eyes. The numbers don't include those held in collections but not graded. I would guess I am not the only Forum member with this variety.
I think the revised Marsh Book has placed some emphasis on Auction and EBay realisations / appearances. A little more research shows a different picture.
Spinks is OK but I don't use them for everything, I use a mixture of resources.
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11 hours ago, Micky9776 said:

Got it from the new revised The Gold Sovereign book by marsh page 35, number 38 and 38A 

38A is down as R5 5-10 examples estimated to have survived.

whats your thoughts @sovereignsteve ? Could this be a very rare sovereign? Thought I would ask the subject matter expert :) 

I'm clearly at a disadvantage here as I don't have a copy of the new "Marsh" book yet. I'll be swinging by Blackpool on Tuesday so can pick up my copy from Chards.

So the new book lists two varieties of the 1855: WW raised 38A  and WW incuse 38 ?

These will correspond to Spink S3852C (38A) and S3852D (38)

The prices given in Spink do suggest the 38A is rarer than the 38 and this has been consistent over the last x years that I have been buying a copy.

However, the Marsh Golden Jubilee Ed. (2002) isn't very specific about the '55, MM38 being stated to be Common with a mintage of 8.4m

This series of sovs is the Type 1a which runs from 1838 - 1863 (and 1872).

The only mention of WW Incuse is in the throwaway "These letters also appear incuse on some coins" even though we know the WW Incuse design runs from 1853 - 1863 and the WW raised series end at 1855

Marsh was never perfect and it's such a shame he wasn't able to carry on revising his books past 2002. This series was probably one of the major flaws in the book and, as has been said, you need a combination of Marsh and Spink (at least) when dealing with these coins.

There is absolutely no way this coin is as rare as R5 so we clearly have a perpetuation of errors in the Marsh book series.

The WW raised always was a lot rarer than the incuse in top condition. The "rarity" designations in the old Marsh only applied to coins in VF and above grade, I assume the new book is the same.

 

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Awesome thanks for all the info guys! Really appreciate it! I think it's safe to say their may be a few errors in the revised edition. I have spotted 2 spelling mistakes so far ?

@sovereignsteve I believe if I remember correctly their are 3 varieties but will double check when I get home from work and I will post up a pic for you. Also I just bought my book from speedyhen for just under £22 (topcashback and free postage) delivered and it came within 2 days so might be worth checking them out. 

I could of got this coin for just under £330 delivered and that's why I wanted to double check the Rarity. I had a feeling that R5 would not be appropriate for the coin as when I have made a few searches I found quite a few listed for sale etc and like @SovTracker has stated there's more than 5-10 examples that have been graded alone. 

Thanks again guys! 

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6 minutes ago, Micky9776 said:

Also I just bought my book from speedyhen for just under £22 (topcashback and free postage) delivered

good deal. however I have already bought and paid for my copy, just need to pick it up

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56 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

good deal. however I have already bought and paid for my copy, just need to pick it up

I had to pay 2.80 postage from them for my copy.   Bookdepository cancelled my order due to lack of stock and speedyhen had to send a second copy out as I never received the first or maybe they just forgot to send it and didn't want to admit it.

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4 minutes ago, Micky9776 said:

That's the other variety 

IMG_3454.thumb.JPG.6d5e060c44fc8d910c84714981d0932f.JPG

Also if you need any info / varietys on any other years before you get your copy, let me know and I will pm you a few photos

OK that's clearer now. My guess would be that they've got the rarity value for the 38A and 38B mixed up. I think we've shown with our small population here that R5 for 38A is plainly wrong. There is no way it's that rare. The 38B on the other hand, I can  believe is very rare, I've never seen one. I wonder if they've decided that the well-known Roman I variety is in fact a 1 over inverted 1 ?

Are there any other Roman I varieties mentioned? They exist for most dates in this series and I'm wondering if someone has classified them all as inverted 1 over 1 ?

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Yes defiantly seems like they have mixed them up, but would you Class it as a R2? As they can be found with a little bit of searching and only with a price tag of £330? Or is that about the going rate for a rarer sovereign?

i know R2 doesn't have a estimated sum it's just "very rare" does anyone have a rough idea what it could be? 50-100? 100-200? Etc

yes there are other varietys that's listed with the Roman I, just a few for example 1843, 1845,1846, and it seems like the 1852 was the last "Roman I for 1 In date". After this date it is then down as "1 over inverted 1 In date"  for example 1853,1855,1862 etc

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