Starting to stack silver coins. What should I look at getting?

[jmichael99]

Im in the market for 2 reasons, coins that can gain value and to have silver for an economic collapse.  

 

My research led me to find that Silver eagles are not good to make a profit for in the long run so they would be good to have if the economy tanked, same with Canadian Maple leafs 

I also found coins that change the design every year gain more value in the long run. So I picked up a few Kookaburra, pandas and The wild Canada series.

 

So this leaves me to as for guidance. Am I going int the right direction or should I be doing something else?  I am wanting to avoid bars because I don't see a value in them, I might get 1 or 2 "just because" but by no means looking for bars in big lots.  I don't mind holding coins for a long time to gain value

 

One thing I have already discovered after 2 week of looking and buying small amounts is I won't buy silver eagles online anymore.  Local shop had them for $19 for 2015-17 and $20 for 2013-14 and online I paid $21 for a 2017.  

[Pete]

Are you in the USA ?

If so you are kind of lucky if you have a local shop selling ASEs and Maples on low margin without any tax to pay.
This means you can flip your coins not having to make 20% just to cover UK VAT.

Buying cheap bullion silver is simply converting paper fiat currency into metal and hoping that the metal price will increase in time.
For sure the paper fiat will decrease over time due to quantitative easing and inflation.

If you believe silver is undervalued ( market manipulated ) then now is a good time to buy cheap bullion as it will rise in value with spot if it increases.

Premium coins are another matter altogether.
Theoretically a lunar coin or similar costing much more to buy should hold its value and over time increase in value but that is not always true.
If silver spot rises dramatically the premium coin might not follow as it already has a margin built in that is determined by demand and not spot.
Some coin series like the RAM Kangaroos are rising in price because of their collectibility but others have halved in value from their initial price as they fall out of the feeding frenzy at the time. Hard to predict so depends on your strategy and also on your spending power.

 

[Pampfan]

I agree with @Pete's advice above.  

In addition, you need to think of an exit strategy if you need to liquidate quickly - for this ASE's are your best bet right now.  

 

[jmichael99]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

Are you in the USA ?

If so you are kind of lucky if you have a local shop selling ASEs and Maples on low margin without any tax to pay.
This means you can flip your coins not having to make 20% just to cover UK VAT.

Buying cheap bullion silver is simply converting paper fiat currency into metal and hoping that the metal price will increase in time.
For sure the paper fiat will decrease over time due to quantitative easing and inflation.

If you believe silver is undervalued ( market manipulated ) then now is a good time to buy cheap bullion as it will rise in value with spot if it increases.

Premium coins are another matter altogether.
Theoretically a lunar coin or similar costing much more to buy should hold its value and over time increase in value but that is not always true.
If silver spot rises dramatically the premium coin might not follow as it already has a margin built in that is determined by demand and not spot.
Some coin series like the RAM Kangaroos are rising in price because of their collectibility but others have halved in value from their initial price as they fall out of the feeding frenzy at the time. Hard to predict so depends on your strategy and also on your spending power.

Yes I am in the USA. 

 

I do agree they could loose their value if the market tanks, but they will still have their silver value just like the eagles.  I paid an extra $4 for Kookaburra so I don't see that as a bad deal really.

[jmichael99]

1 minute ago, Pampfan said:

I agree with @Pete's advice above.  

I addition, you need to think of an exit strategy if you need to liquidate quickly - for this ASE's are your best bet right now.  

 

Good call.  I would if I really needed the money quick.  For an currency collapse metal would become the new currency most likely so they would be more valuable 

[BackyardBullion]

@jmichael99 welcome to the forum.

Seems like you have a good handle on things to get you started!

Check out my beginners guide videos, might give you some more food for thought!

 

[Clens92]

1 hour ago, jmichael99 said:

Good call.  I would if I really needed the money quick.  For an currency collapse metal would become the new currency most likely so they would be more valuable 

If you check what happened during the Balkan Wars, very few people were interested in taking gold and silver in exchange for goods.  It was loosely based on a barter system; alcohol and cigarettes were apparently the most prized items, followed by clean water and medicines.

Don't assume that silver will help if fiat collapses - after all, silver is still priced in fiat...

[airmac]

On 28/08/2017 at 20:11, Clens92 said:

If you check what happened during the Balkan Wars, very few people were interested in taking gold and silver in exchange for goods.  It was loosely based on a barter system; alcohol and cigarettes were apparently the most prized items, followed by clean water and medicines.

Don't assume that silver will help if fiat collapses - after all, silver is still priced in fiat...

But wouldn't that go with the assumption of infrastructure and industries being destroyed like then? If for example the US dollar dives, that doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the world will come to a standstill. I think it depends on regional conditions

[jason1977]

What is your purpose for buying them? 

If you're a collector I'd say buy what you like.

 

if you're doing it as an investment or as a financial safety net of sorts, I would tell you buy whatever retains their value the most.

 

that being said, I find that the local bullion dealer buys back Johnson Mathey Bars and Silver Eagles at the same price- 1$ under spot. Value for money, I submit that Johnson Mathey Bars and Silver Eagles are equals on the silver bullion playing field.

Also AVOID Flea-Bay! Buy local! Walk in to your local gold and silver shop and buy there. I have gotten counterfeit brass bullion bars on flea-bay and all they're good for now is getting the odd coin tube when you need a new one to fill. This is very sound advice for anyone not collecting, or not terribly attached to their "stack". Once you've been in a situation in life where you had no choice but to sell them--- you have a new appreciation for them and  appreciate the importance of having a stack to begin with.

 

good luck and happy stacking!

[Goldhooked]

Rather than start a new thread I'll ask here.

If you're just stacking (UK based), what sort of price per ounce would be reasonable to be paying?

For gold, the advice seems to be to pay no more than spot+5% but surely that's not possible on silver in the UK unless you're in the know or very lucky?

Best I've managed so far is a couple of ounces at £14/ounce but that seemed to be right place at right time lucky!

[Myblueheaven]

1 hour ago, Goldhooked said:

Rather than start a new thread I'll ask here.

If you're just stacking (UK based), what sort of price per ounce would be reasonable to be paying?

For gold, the advice seems to be to pay no more than spot+5% but surely that's not possible on silver in the UK unless you're in the know or very lucky?

Best I've managed so far is a couple of ounces at £14/ounce but that seemed to be right place at right time lucky!

£14 seems cheap but good for you !!

I suppose if you just want basic bullion then jump on BYBs next Goldsilver.be order, Athenian owls at the moment are £15.30 per 1oz coin.

If you want a more desirable / semi numismatic coin then you will still get at a reasonable price as there is no VAT and the shipping cost is shared out which is minimal.

Ive been doing this 1 month, I've used BYBs GS.be order and it is as yet proved to be trouble free.

I have also purchased coins off fellow forum members who all seem really helpful and trustworthy.

I'm sure a more experienced forum member will give you better advice than I can, but it all helps when new.

Myblueheaven

[Goldhooked]

21 minutes ago, Myblueheaven said:

£14 seems cheap but good for you !!

I suppose if you just want basic bullion then jump on BYBs next Goldsilver.be order, Athenian owls at the moment are £15.30 per 1oz coin.

If you want a more desirable / semi numismatic coin then you will still get at a reasonable price as there is no VAT and the shipping cost is shared out which is minimal.

Ive been doing this 1 month, I've used BYBs GS.be order and it is as yet proved to be trouble free.

I have also purchased coins off fellow forum members who all seem really helpful and trustworthy.

I'm sure a more experienced forum member will give you better advice than I can, but it all helps when new.

Myblueheaven

Is that £15.30 delivered for the owls?

[Myblueheaven]

There would be a minimal delivery fee shared out from GS.be, this depends on how many people order, if the order is over £5000 then delivery is free ( July's order reached £5000 )

Augusts order was approx £4000 I think, so there was a small delivery charge, £2.25 + optional £1 to @BackyardBullion for his efforts and work arranging this for us all to benefit.

There is then the onward postage from BYB out to us, this is your choice, so second class up to special delivery.

So this does push the cost up a little but dependent on the amount of coins you order, lets say 20 coins, it would probably add 25 pence to the coin if you opted 2nd class post.

Still cheaper than uk dealers and ebay.

Hope this helps

Myblueheaven

[Thelonerangershorse]

Since your UK based, you might want to consider sticking with UK coins for the CGT.

[Bullionbilly]

17 minutes ago, Goldhooked said:

Is that £15.30 delivered for the owls?

As @Myblueheaven says

Take a look on goldsilver.be's website. They have alsorts of stuff, as above @BackyardBullion kindly does a monthly group buy which i and many others have taken advantage of to cut postage fees. Other than that get you' re redbull and matchsticks out and wait for a bargain to hit the sales section they do come up on a regular basis, premium members get to see the ads first so it may be worth signing up.

[Goldhooked]

3 minutes ago, Bullionbilly said:

As @Myblueheaven says

Take a look on goldsilver.be's website. They have alsorts of stuff, as above @BackyardBullion kindly does a monthly group buy which i and many others have taken advantage of to cut postage fees. Other than that get you' re redbull and matchsticks out and wait for a bargain to hit the sales section they do come up on a regular basis, premium members get to see the ads first so it may be worth signing up.

Thanks.  Already signed up to premium for just that reason

[BackyardBullion]

@Goldhooked

I have just completed a recent order and it was another great success.

You may be lucky and get a deal on eBay or on the sales section here at £15-£16/oz but those are rare and you will have a lot of competition!

So generally the best bet is to buy from Europe. It will be cheaper then a UK silver dealer for sure.

The saving you make compared to ordering yourself can vary - a big order will probably need to be posted on to you via special delivery.

So an example from this order, all in someone bought 30 oz and ended up paying £12 for postage all in. Better than the £16 GS.be charges.

Someone ordered 3 coins and total they paid was £3 so big savings.

Someone even ordered x1 1/2 Oz coin and paid a whopping 90p in Shipping!

I wont be doing a group order in September, but I will be opening one up for October with delivery in early November. Just let me know if you want to join in!

[Goldhooked]

8 minutes ago, Thelonerangershorse said:

Since your UK based, you might want to consider sticking with UK coins for the CGT.

You would have to sell an awful lot of silver in a year to make enough profit to exceed your personal CGT limit.

[Thelonerangershorse]

Or the price of silver goes up !

[BackyardBullion]

3 minutes ago, Goldhooked said:

You would have to sell an awful lot of silver in a year to make enough profit to exceed your personal CGT limit.

 

1 minute ago, Thelonerangershorse said:

Or the price of silver goes up !

The day I have to worry about capital gains tax if I come to sell all my silver is a good day in my book...

[Goldhooked]

1 minute ago, BackyardBullion said:

@Goldhooked

I have just completed a recent order and it was another great success.

You may be lucky and get a deal on eBay or on the sales section here at £15-£16/oz but those are rare and you will have a lot of competition!

So generally the best bet is to buy from Europe. It will be cheaper then a UK silver dealer for sure.

The saving you make compared to ordering yourself can vary - a big order will probably need to be posted on to you via special delivery.

So an example from this order, all in someone bought 30 oz and ended up paying £12 for postage all in. Better than the £16 GS.be charges.

Someone ordered 3 coins and total they paid was £3 so big savings.

Someone even ordered x1 1/2 Oz coin and paid a whopping 90p in Shipping!

I wont be doing a group order in September, but I will be opening one up for October with delivery in early November. Just let me know if you want to join in!

Yes I'll definitely be interested in the next one, thanks.

[Jay2]

Another option is to buy bulk historic silver in the UK, which you can occasionally get (even from ebay) at or under spot.

I just picked up on ebay today: half a kilo of 50% silver in Half-Crowns & Florins, under spot, including insured Special Delivery. Some of the half-crowns even look collectable, but it's just silver savings to me, primarily.

 

I got in on 2 of BYB's group orders as well and they're a great experience for getting a good range of bullion which would be much more expensive on ebay, and you're avoiding the odd fake ebay might throw at you. When spot went up, I started stacking some historic silver and gold (Hatton Garden Metals is good for bulk gold, because you pay the delivery fee just once. Atkinsons is great for solo gold purchases, because everything is 'free' delivery, meaning it's rolled into each coin's price. If you get 4 Sovereigns at HGM, you're better off than getting the same from Atkinsons even with their lower prices for 4x bulk. But it's worth creating an identical shopping cart in both websites to compare your exact orders each time!)

 

[BackyardBullion]

Ultimately if you want to stack precious metals as close to spot as possible you should go for gold.

Spot +4% or less is just always going to be better than buying silver even from Europe.

Silver vs gold is a time old choice!

[BackyardBullion]

Also @Bullionbilly @Jay2 @Myblueheaven

Thank you for your kind words on these group orders!

Pleasure to be of service!

[Goldhooked]

13 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

Ultimately if you want to stack precious metals as close to spot as possible you should go for gold.

Spot +4% or less is just always going to be better than buying silver even from Europe.

Silver vs gold is a time old choice!

I'm already in to gold sovereigns as well and plan to hold a mix of both metals.