silenceissilver

although 98% of the time they are dearest dealer to buy from, the few times i have used them have been flawless, great service and product in stock  

i am sure there were recent times when dealers did not have any or much stock. i see on Atkinson's website they have a banner notice that customers should expect a 2 - 4 day delay in orders being sent out. 
What is important is that there is raised investment demand. Now at the moment i wouldn't want there to be some meteoric rise in metal prices which in any case will not happen until and unless the West is drained of gold. This will eventually happen - it is only a matter of time. That for example the COMEX has become a delivery market is drawing down the COMEX bar inventory. It will eventually crack, there will be defaults, industrial users will panic and then the house of cards will collapse. So what is important is upping the investment demand to tighten the industrial supply. If the likes of Apple panicked and decided they wanted a sizable inventory they could blow up the silver market next week. The silver squeeze is not a one day or one week or even one year thing - it is consistently taking silver out of the hands and reach of the bullion banks. The big industrial users will blow it up - once one wants its own stockpile they all will.
So if you decide you want more gold and silver whether or not there is a significant shortage (which you will not know about until it is too late) then you should not let up - you keep stacking what you can afford. If you decide you have enough, then there is likely something else you need to hoard like food or some such. Prices are rising in the shops and you can beat inflation that way.

We both share the same impression.
I suppose it is possible, but I am certainly not convinced.

If it was a result of handling it after it was minted, you'd see it on old silver coins as well. I've only got a handful or two that are older than 100 years but I have also never heard about it, so I assume it doesn't exist for those coins but you'd know much better as you must have dealt with many, many thousands.

I have watched one video on Youtube about the Austrian Mint where they proudly state that their gold and silver productions are completely separated, with separated ventilation systems, in order to avoid pollution - little dust of one metal on the other - which is or at least can be responsible for red spots on gold coins as far as I know. I have no clue if this is standard for all big mints and just mentioned as a PR message or if this makes them stand out. In any case the Austrian Philharmonic silver coin does milk spot, I only have a few but I have seen it on them, quite badly on one, more milk than silver. Thanks God I bought this particular coin for someone else 
I thought it must be one of these things too and was wondering why it couldn't be rinsed off - maybe it would take too much rising and thus increase the costs or maybe it could leave tiny scratches - or maybe it wouldn't be possible to rinse if off in the first place, depending on what exactly it is.
It's my understanding - actually I'm pretty sure - they don't remove whatever is causing the milk spots but there is a very thin layer of a chemical added, all around the coin that prevents whatever the milkspots are from becoming visible. I thinks someone mentioned it in God knows which thread, there is a company that colours also the Maples and in order to do so they have to get rid of this extra layer of chemical, so they can spot again. They are literally camouflaged, not removed - still better than not camouflaged.

This is important information for all forum members who live in the EU:
The EU wants to create a centralised, EU-wide data base of the assets of its inhabitants, including property, works of art, crypto currencies - and gold. Not sure about silver.
Well, there is no other reason to do that than trying to steal it from you, eventually (after the hyperinflation).
That's why it's a good idea to buy it in person, rather than ordering it online - if you bought online and don't declare it, you might get trouble at some point. Of course, it's impossible to prove you haven't lost it in a tragic boat accident. However, given the state of law is ever more openly spit on by the politicians, you might still face trouble. However, gold is still one of only a very few possibilities to avoid getting your wealth taken away by the Neo-Bolsheviks. If you have property you rent out or shares, they can just take it - and they will in the not too distant future.
https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:358265-2021:TEXT:DE:HTML&tabId=1

This is important information for all forum members who live in the EU:
The EU wants to create a centralised, EU-wide data base of the assets of its inhabitants, including property, works of art, crypto currencies - and gold. Not sure about silver.
Well, there is no other reason to do that than trying to steal it from you, eventually (after the hyperinflation).
That's why it's a good idea to buy it in person, rather than ordering it online - if you bought online and don't declare it, you might get trouble at some point. Of course, it's impossible to prove you haven't lost it in a tragic boat accident. However, given the state of law is ever more openly spit on by the politicians, you might still face trouble. However, gold is still one of only a very few possibilities to avoid getting your wealth taken away by the Neo-Bolsheviks. If you have property you rent out or shares, they can just take it - and they will in the not too distant future.
https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:358265-2021:TEXT:DE:HTML&tabId=1

Yeah, it's disappointing that there's no real information or public research identifying exactly what milk spots are and where they come from. That's such a basic requirement for proceeding further, and yet we don't have it. It might take a motivated individual researcher to do the requisite testing and analysis, perhaps a chemist or metallurgist.
@TeaTime It's not clear if you're talking about milk spots. You seem to be saying that "toning", "blooming", and "milk spots" are the same thing, but that can't be true if "toning" is synonymous with "tarnish" as seems to be the case. Tarnish is caused by sulfur in the air. It's usually a shade of brown. Milk spots are not tarnish, they have a fundamentally different whitish appearance, and they are not cleaned by the methods that clean tarnish (e.g. the aluminum foil and baking soda method).
Moreover, it's not true that all silver tarnishes or that all silver develops milk spots. I've never had silver tarnish if I keep it in Ziploc bags, tubes, or capsules. And lots of silver doesn't develop milk spots. The nature and cause of milk spots are currently unknown to the public.
It's a tough problem because these mints are government mints and their employees are government employees. This creates a dynamic that breeds complacency and entitlement, and a lack of accountability or the strong customer service mindset common with private-sector enterprises. The Royal Canadian Mint is the most business-like of them all, and mints coins for lots of countries around the world. They're very innovative with both their circulation coins and bullion. The (British) Royal Mint is maybe in second place on innovation, and they also compete for business minting other countries' coins. The US Mint has by far the most money/revenue of the world mints, but they don't do anything with it. They're the worst of the major mints in terms of quality and innovation – they have no security features, trail behind on purity, and their circulation coin production is extremely inefficient and uninnovative (still using precious copper and nickel as base metals...)
It would help if the US Mint and others rolled up their sleeves and did some simple research on the milk spotting phenomenon, the chemistry, etc. It's not rocket science. But these organizations seem to be extremely complacent and unaccountable. They don't really communicate. They don't even respond to emails sometimes. I wonder if a private mint will do some research, like Sunshine or Scottsdale. Their products aren't collectibles though, not like the proof, ultra high relief, memorial, historical, baseball champion something or other that the government mints issue. It's just so hard to get real communication from the government mints. Even major dealers like Chards don't get much of a response, and we live in a culture where it's normal for organizations like this to have people on staff who issue nonsense answers to questions for a living, PR people and so forth. Clear communication is increasingly rare.

I had never heard the term "milk spot" until the last year or two.
I think I first became aware of it on TSF, where there seem be be lots of discussions and complaints about milk spots, mainly about British Royal Mint silver coins including some high premium proof coins, and also bullion coins like Britannias.

This composite images shows milk spotting on a 2021 UK silver proof Queens's Beasts Black Bull of Clarence coin, one of 9 coins from a 10 coin Royal Mint set to feature this production defect.
Of course, I have seen white spots on silver coins before, but had never called them milk spots, or heard anyone else call them that, until quite recently as I just mentioned.
I can call to mind seeing a slight grey blue bloom on some silver proof crowns from 1980 and 1981. In the past, we have tried silver dipping a few coins, but with very poor results. I suspect that this bloom is caused by the same or a similar production problem.
A quick search using Google will find many pages discussing the problem, but none which states its cause, although a few of the sites including YouTube videos seem to claim to explain the phenomenon and its cause, but fail to actually do so.
A number of these sites mention that it might be caused by solvents or detergents used to clean the planchets (blanks). Some suggest PVC. Although PVC can and does cause some tarnishing, corrosion, or discoloration, I have never noticed it causing milk spots, so I think we can discount the PVC theory. My own thoughts were that it might be caused by oils or other lubricants, affecting either the blanks or the actual coins during the striking process.
The Royal Canadian Mint is to be commended because, according to its website, it carried out research over about 4 years, and in 2018 introduced something called MintShield, which reduces , slows down, or helps to prevent milk spotting. It proudly states that it now incorporates MintShield into its silver bullion maples, and other silver coins. However...
... Disappointingly, the RCM fails to state clearly what causes the problem, what MintShield is or how exactly it works, stating it is a secret process. While I can understand it protecting its investment in research to develop the process, I feel I should deduct points for choosing to withhold the basic facts, namely what is milk spotting, and what causes it.
As recently as yesterday, I asked our main Perth Mint contact what Perth Mint knew, as I cannot remember seeing it on their silver coins, although I feel sure somebody will have done.
I received the following very prompt reply:
Such spots are caused regularly by some small pollutions at the production process. TPM has made large efforts by cleaning the factory to prevent such spots.
I will check if there is any further “official” statement available about that theme from TPM.
Obviously, this does not explain everything we all want to know, but at least it is more than I have heard from any other mint, apart from the RCM as mentioned above. If I receive any further information, I will post it here.
 
 
 

No one here owns any gold. We all just love the pictures of the shiny metal.
 I would love to see how a gold coin really looks like but they are really pretty on those photos. 

I suppose if there's so many boating accidents all at once, and so much metal sinking to the seabed, displacing all that water, that sea levels will rise! And they blame climate change?
See Wonger was right, gold is going down...

Guys, we're all missing the golden opportunity to be had here.
Step 1) Open a boating business that will safely transport previous metals.
Step 2) All UK forum members agree to take hold of the precious metals that our fellow EU forum members have in their stacks; transactions to be sent in the post. A small fee, of course.
Step 3) Declare that two, terrible accidents occured to all EU forum members. First, the metal was lost in the post by the Royal Mail (very likely). Second, there was a terrible boating accident (also very likely, it never stops raining in the British Isles and that's just summer); whatever metal wasn't lost in the post was lost in the boating accident. This also included the entire stack that the UK forum member had (we were just trying to be environmentally friendly and ship it all at once to make Greta Thunderbirds-are-go proud!).
Step 4) All EU forum members need to immediately tell their governments about what happened in Step 3. Something like: *Roll eyes* "Sacre bleu, those bloody Brits and their tea sipping ways; at it again, don't you know, Merkel!" All UK forum members need to tell HMRC that the EU is to blame for sending over so much precious metal that it caused the terrible boating accident by capsizing the boats. *Roll eyes* "Sacre bleu, those bloody European mainlanders and their coffee-sipping ways; at it again, don't you know, Boris!"

This is important information for all forum members who live in the EU:
The EU wants to create a centralised, EU-wide data base of the assets of its inhabitants, including property, works of art, crypto currencies - and gold. Not sure about silver.
Well, there is no other reason to do that than trying to steal it from you, eventually (after the hyperinflation).
That's why it's a good idea to buy it in person, rather than ordering it online - if you bought online and don't declare it, you might get trouble at some point. Of course, it's impossible to prove you haven't lost it in a tragic boat accident. However, given the state of law is ever more openly spit on by the politicians, you might still face trouble. However, gold is still one of only a very few possibilities to avoid getting your wealth taken away by the Neo-Bolsheviks. If you have property you rent out or shares, they can just take it - and they will in the not too distant future.
https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:358265-2021:TEXT:DE:HTML&tabId=1

Of course the people that orchestrate these schemes never include themselves in the group that have to live within the new restrictions.
The whole idea of preventing money laundering and tackling crime. Great on the tin, but actually the criminals will simply find a way around it. Instead the ordinary, law abiding folk will be hit instead, as always.
I'll state bluntly that I have never liked the EU (as the political body) and I've never trusted it. I'm afraid I have read Ninteen Eighty Four and they really are like Big Brother, the moral police, slowly encroaching on people's freedoms and rights through an ever growing network of complex rules and regulations. A malicious spider weaving its web.
How does an organisation that was birthed as a trading partnership to create frictionless trade, seem to do nothing but barriers, regulations and obstacles in the way of businesses?
It was never really about trade, it was always about creating a unified (political) European superstate based on some neo-marxist ideal, where the elites can analyse every one of their citizens and have supreme control over their thoughts and actions.
Beware my friends, they are never going to stop... there's too much money for those in the loop to walk away from this. They'll take your gold, your houses and your rights. You will own nothing and be happy.

Yes, it is such a tender, it certainly is not immediately around the corner. At this point they are looking into how they could do this in practice. This being said, it shows where they want to go.

No one here owns any gold. We all just love the pictures of the shiny metal.
 I would love to see how a gold coin really looks like but they are really pretty on those photos. 

@silenceissilver property not much chance of hiding that, but the rest f--k them & that goes for the UK if they ever start something like that. I can waste my own money if I want I don't need the EU  or government to do it for me.

This is important information for all forum members who live in the EU:
The EU wants to create a centralised, EU-wide data base of the assets of its inhabitants, including property, works of art, crypto currencies - and gold. Not sure about silver.
Well, there is no other reason to do that than trying to steal it from you, eventually (after the hyperinflation).
That's why it's a good idea to buy it in person, rather than ordering it online - if you bought online and don't declare it, you might get trouble at some point. Of course, it's impossible to prove you haven't lost it in a tragic boat accident. However, given the state of law is ever more openly spit on by the politicians, you might still face trouble. However, gold is still one of only a very few possibilities to avoid getting your wealth taken away by the Neo-Bolsheviks. If you have property you rent out or shares, they can just take it - and they will in the not too distant future.
https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:358265-2021:TEXT:DE:HTML&tabId=1

In my case my tragic boating accident has been documented on the forum several times over several years. The thing is it never really happened. But it doesn't end there. i have been a total fake.
It has also been documented on numerous occasions i am a lunatic and i am. i will have to come clean now - in my state of madness i have lived a fantasy life imagining the Earth was flat, Elvis lives on the dark side of the Moon and worst of all i have a stash of precious metal coins and bars. i confess i was a fantasist. i am ashamed of myself and offer my most profound apologies to the membership.

This is important information for all forum members who live in the EU:
The EU wants to create a centralised, EU-wide data base of the assets of its inhabitants, including property, works of art, crypto currencies - and gold. Not sure about silver.
Well, there is no other reason to do that than trying to steal it from you, eventually (after the hyperinflation).
That's why it's a good idea to buy it in person, rather than ordering it online - if you bought online and don't declare it, you might get trouble at some point. Of course, it's impossible to prove you haven't lost it in a tragic boat accident. However, given the state of law is ever more openly spit on by the politicians, you might still face trouble. However, gold is still one of only a very few possibilities to avoid getting your wealth taken away by the Neo-Bolsheviks. If you have property you rent out or shares, they can just take it - and they will in the not too distant future.
https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:358265-2021:TEXT:DE:HTML&tabId=1

Perhaps we can store Europeans gold and silver for a minimum commission??????

Detecting money laundering and tax evasion - this is probably the reason that's required to kick this project off and in my opinion, throw people off the scent in terms of what the real agenda is.
This reads like gold etc. are afterthoughts "also considered" - are they really afterthoughts? Nah, and in my experience, the last keyword used in a statement like that is the most significant (gold).

I wonder how much this initiative if it gets off the ground, will actually wake people up. It will sure be good for spurring the development of black (read free) markets.

Transferring your assets into buying a Lambo is difficult to trace after its gone up in smoke 😂

Property can be tracked pretty easily and so can crypto - possibly a bit trickier to track is works of art.
The trickiest of all is tracking physical gold.
Just because someone bought a significant amount of gold at a point in time, doesn't necessarily mean they have it now, or not all of it.
I think starting to track gold now, in the lead-up to the reset (my prediction is 2033) is an indicator, as to what could happen further down the line and makes the process a little easier doing it now.
How else is all that global debt going to be settled!!?