Piggybank

Great story, great stack. Hats off to you, that is a stunning pile of gold. You're gonna need a bigger box...😀

Yesterday i saw the lastest Arcadia Economics video Dave Kranzler did. He was saying the banks are long silver. This is noteworthy b/c rising prices would benefit the usual suspects. Looking at silver futures on the CFTC website the Swap Deals are net long. The Swap Dealers are the banks. Plain vanilla fundamental analysis would dictate that the metals should be much higher. It is getting more and more expensive to mine and refine them. 
We see fiat currencies depreciating against real assets. Most are priced in USD and with the dollar index high that means the price of commodities in other currencies tends to be even higher.
Looking at the 2022 Silver Institute Report for what it's worth https://www.silverinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Metals-FocusWWS2022Launch.pdf it shows that silver demand has increased, especially investment demand, which was up 36%. Mined production also increased but there was a deficit. 
Logically price should go up unless there is more than pure supply demand dynamics in play. We come back to the same old same old story - the market in precious metals is rigged. Well it is heavily managed. The price of real money (gold and silver) shooting up in fiat terms looks bad - as if people didn't already know the pound in their pocket doesn't buy them much anymore. At some point the dam will burst. i have studied the fundamentals for years and in all honesty they don't help other than they tell me that at some point the price has to rise, and rise a lot. The thing is we look at a fictional price - the paper price. The supply of paper contracts can be turned on like a tap which of course bears no relation to real physical. We know you can't actually buy silver for the paper price, so it genuinely is a fictional price. Perhaps the BRICS commodity currency which it appears will figures silver highly will break the camel's back. i suspect when the dam breaks it will be suddenly and quite unexpectedly for many. That the Swap Dealers are long is usually a good pointer to a reverse in decline.

Hi, Sybilla!
It is very difficult to predict how your silver will sell in the future and how much from the premium you have paid will be recovered when you will sell. It is a lottery.
All of us been fascinated about shiny and beautiful coins and all of us have overpaid at beginning for first ounces of silver.
All of us have learned quick that stacking silver and collecting coins are two different leagues.
Stacking is accumulating for weight at the best price possible, collecting is paying sometimes high premium for our pleasure and/or vanity. 
My advice is to start accumulating first looking at the best price possible, and in time, after gaining more experience in coins and precious metals you can start buying what do you like.
Keep an eye on Buy/Sell UK section. Because it is the most active section on forum, you will check and learn very quick about the real market prices for silver bars and coins. You will see that the correct priced coins will sell in minutes and others will not sell. You will see also in real time the real demand for silver.
Good luck in your journey!🤗
Stefan.
 

Asahi coins are vastly Overpriced unfortunately, I can get a tube of new ones on forum for £580 delivered. That £24 each in new condition, and yours are tarnished. 
Dragon bars go for £29-£31 so again your ones are on the high side.
I completely understand though that you have paid substantially more through different networks, I've been there and done it personally myself over and over again before finding the forum. 
@dicker is right , if not desperate for cash,then they are already yours and paid for, so put them away until spot price is in your favour. Now focus on bringing your 1oz cost average down by making smarter purchases in the future. 

Hi Rashka
My advice is: Buy low, sell high.
I don’t know which coins you own or the condition but sounds like you are going to do a swap of some .999 for some other .999.
Personally, I wouldn’t be selling them for a loss, I would leave it for the price of silver to rise.  Especially if you don’t need to liquidate to cash.
Best
Dicker

I had to drop some new items off at safe deposit box yesterday, so took my camera along to finally see my gold stack together - viewing room table wasn't big enough to get everything into one shot  For someone who could never hold onto money in his 20s I think Ive done OK 

Excellent.
A small table explaining Product vs CGT and VAT might be very useful for a punter to quickly establish the relative virtues of each metal and the form in which it is available?
Additionally, the term “accommodation addresses” might be changed to something like “service addresses” or “virtual office addresses”.  
PEN testing - shouldn’t be capitalised in my experience. Pen or pen is more standard.
In the section “Know your supplier”, can I suggest that checking VAT registration and Company number is also a good check.  
Also might be worth suggesting checking out companies Companies House returns to understand a dealers balance sheet!  Publicly available documents on Companies house.  (Several times I have looked at the annual returns of a company with a flash website and found that they have less capital than I carry in my wallet on a daily basis!)
Best
Dicker
 
accommodation addresses

This is actually a draft of what I hope will be a concise but comprehensive advice page for anyone thinking of investing in gold, silver, or platinum bullion coins or bars.
The definitive version of it will be appear soon on the Chards website, but I hope it will also be a useful resource for "newbies" on TSF.
I also invite suggestions, criticisms, and other comments.
The final online version will have links to expanded, detailed pages about the various topic headings and bullet points included here:
 
Advice Guide for UK Precious Metal Bullion Investors 
Gold Should Be Your First Choice
Gold should be your first choice, because investment gold is exempt from VAT in the UK (& also EU).  You should aim to buy at the lowest percentage premium within reason.  Does size matter? Yes!  One ounce gold bullion coins are usually available at low premiums.  Gold sovereigns are often available at only slightly higher premiums, and are more affordable because they are smaller, containing  just less than a quarter ounce of fine gold.  Gold bars are usually available at premiums similar to, or slightly less than, equivalent gold coins.  Most coins and bars smaller than one ounce usually cost a relatively high premium, and therefore are not such good value.  Silver Is Also a Popular Investment
Silver is also a popular investment, and has many enthusiastic fans.  It is subject to VAT, so in the UK, you pay the current rate of 20% tax at the front end on your investment, which is not really sensible or recommended.  Percentage premiums are higher on silver than on similar size gold coins and bars, because the manufacturing cost is relatively higher. For example, if a one ounce silver coin costs £1 to make, that’s about 6% to start with. If a one ounce gold coin cost £2 to make, that would only be about 0.2%.  Transport and shipping will cost proportionately more for silver than for gold.  Affordability. If you only have a very limited amount to invest, say £100, then you may prefer to buy silver rather than gold, but you will be paying higher premiums plus VAT, and you would be better off buying one sovereign when you have accumulated enough spare capital.  Platinum Is Also Worth Thinking About
Platinum is also worth thinking about. For many years, its price was higher than gold. At the time of writing, it was much lower, making it more attractive.  It does cost slightly more to process platinum than gold, but not vastly more, so premiums are only slightly higher, unlike silver.  VAT is payable on platinum, as on silver, and almost everything but investment gold.  Palladium
We do deal in palladium coins and bars, but the retail investment market is minuscule, and any stock we have is usually secondary market. 
Offshore Secure Storage Can Avoid VAT
Offshore storage is worth considering for larger investors. Many bullion investors are paranoid about being in physical possession of their investment, so it is not for everyone, but from a purely logical point of view, it makes good sense, as it can avoid having to pay VAT on silver, platinum or palladium.
Insurance and Secure Storage
Security and Insurance are also factors to consider. While many people may be happy to hide a few gold sovereigns under the floorboards, insurance of high values at home can be expensive or impossible. Most people could not afford a high security safe or vault, with alarm systems. Safe deposit boxes are not universally available, and are often not covered by insurance. Third party secure storage is an option. 
Secure Storage
There are some providers of secure storage, including us. Minimum fees do apply, but our Fully Insured Secure Storage is very competitive, and for most people, costs much less than doing it yourself. (See Secure Storage page).
Bullion Coins v. Bullion Bars
 Coins v. Bars
Bullion bars are usually slightly cheaper to buy than bullion coins, but are not always as easy to dispose of, and any cost advantage when you buy is likely to be lost when it comes to selling. 
Ratios
The relative prices of gold, silver, platinum, or palladium, are worth looking at, and taking into consideration. We have pages for Gold:Silver and other ratios, and advice pages about them. (Links) 
Larger Sizes
Bullion coins and bars in sizes larger than one ounce are available, and are usually at lower premiums, but are not always the best answer. Silver kilo bars are a possible exception. Kilo gold bars, for example, are high value, and not everyone can afford them, so even though slightly cheaper to buy, there is a more restricted choice when it comes to sell them. 
Aesthetics should not be of prime importance when investing, except that it may be slightly easier to sell an attractive item than an ugly one. If the design or appearance of your bullion is important to you, then you may be more of a collector than an investor. Different principles and logic may therefore apply. 
Fakes, Forgeries, Frauds and Scams
Fakes exist of many bullion coins and bars. It is important to be aware that they exist, but don’t become paranoid. Some fakes are better, or worse, than others. Some gold coins for example contain the correct amount of gold (and sometimes too much). This limits their deficiency in value, but we advise against buying fakes. While the standard advice might be to buy from reputable dealers, not all dealers are as expert or as scrupulous as they should be. Many auction houses for example give little or limited guarantees against counterfeits. We, on the other hand, unconditionally guarantee the authenticity of what we sell.  
Scams exist. Because there are potentially large amounts of money involved, there always have been, and always will be scams, frauds, and deceptions. It pays to be aware and cautious, but don’t get paranoid.
Design
Designs of coins and bars vary. Our advice here is similar for aesthetics. If you prefer the design or appearance of different coins or bars, then it may not be stupid to pay extra for them, but do consider whether you will recoup any extra when you sell. There is nothing wrong with being a collector, but you may wish to apply different principles compared with purely investing. 
CGT – Capital Gains Tax
Most British legal tender coins are exempt from CGT, so it may be worth larger investors paying slightly higher premiums when buying. Other coins and bars are not exempt from CGT, but this might not matter for many smaller investors. 
Fractional Sizes
We have already touched on these under “smaller sizes”. Premiums will almost always be higher than for the “sweet spot” sizes. Most quarter ounce gold coins, for example, will have a higher premium than for similar sized gold sovereigns, which are available at competitive prices. Tiny sizes, such as 1 gram or less, are usually best avoided because they will be at high premiums. 
Advice in Your Interest
The advice we give is intended to be in your best interest, and not in ours. Some dealers will give you advice slanted towards whatever makes them more profit. We don’t do that! 
World Coins
There are quite a few foreign mints issuing bullion coins, which provides healthy competition, and choice. The British Royal Mint are competitive nowadays, on price and design. If you prefer to collect a variety, then do so, but be aware of the difference between collecting and investing. 
Crown Gold or Fine Gold
Gold bullion coins need to be a minimum of 90% fine gold to qualify as investment gold. Older USA, and many European gold coins were made of 90% (.900 fine). British gold sovereigns are 22ct gold (91.66%), while some modern gold bullion coins are 99.9%, 99.99%, or even 99.999% fine gold (often slightly incorrectly called 24ct). There is no major reason to choose one standard over another in the UK, although some countries have different tax or import charges on coins lower than “24ct”. 
Gold Bars need to be at least 99.5% to qualify as investment gold for VAT exemption. 
Old v. New Coins
By "old” we mean traditional circulation coins such as gold sovereigns, as opposed to “new” modern bullion coins which are mainly in ounces, fractions or multiples of ounces. There is no real benefit in buying modern one ounce gold bullion coins compared with older traditional types such as gold sovereigns, except that it makes the arithmetic or maths slightly easier for those who or lazy or innumerate. One plus point in favour of buying “older” bullion coins is there is more upside potential demand from collectors compared with modern one ounce pieces. 
New v. Secondary Market
Generally speaking, secondary market coins and bars will cost less (lower premiums) than their new equivalents, in which case, they are the better buy. Because their premiums are lower, they are often in greater demand, and are therefore not always instantly available, and you might have to wait. This year’s brand new coins are usually more readily available, but will usually be at slightly higher premiums than secondary market coins.  
Supply and Demand affects premiums and availability. In times of increased demand, there may be delays in getting anything, including new coins. Spikes in demand can outstrip transport, production of blanks, minting / stamping, packaging, and distribution, as well as cleaning out dealers’ stocks. 
Financial Crises, such as the Sub-Prime, Credit, and Banking crisis, can and do cause stampedes into bullion and safe haven assets. 
Covid caused demand to increase, and also caused production and transport problems. Although the worst of these now seem to have passed, the pandemic is still adversely affecting supply and transport lines, and not just for bullion products.
Bullion Market Prices
Spot and live market prices can now be found on many websites, including ours. Spot prices fluctuate almost constantly, but price feeds are only updated periodically, say every 15 seconds. All price feeds can be subject to interruptions, outages, latency, caching, technical glitches and other factors. 
Comparison
The best way to compare value, prices, and deals, is to look at the percentage premiums, rather than at actual monetary differences. If you are someone who does not understand percentages, you may be at a disadvantage. Some dealers and websites make it easier to compare premiums than others. We try to make things transparent and clear because we want to make it easy for investors to make the best decisions. Most of the time, this will mean dealing with us, which is a major reason we try to make it easy. Where VAT is involved, it is not as easy to compare premiums, but then the best premiums will almost always be on VAT exempt investment gold. 
Credit
Nobody in their right mind gives credit on bullion. It would be almost impossible to do so and remain competitive. 
Cleared Funds
Like buying a house or shares, to buy bullion competitively requires immediate or advance payment in cleared funds. Most dealers do not accept payment by credit card, with some exceptions for low value or high margin transactions. Similar applies also to debit cards to a slightly lesser degree. For high value transactions, most dealers have moved to require prepayment. 
Legally Binding Contracts
Most bullion deals involve legally binding contracts between both parties. Although most dealers fully understand and comply, not all private investors understand this, but should do. 
Distance Selling
Most bullion transactions are exempt from, and not subject to The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, or similar UK laws. Most bullion dealers state this in their terms and conditions. 
Bricks and Clicks
We have been around since well before the internet, so we have a physical showroom which you can visit. Currently this requires an appointment. Postage is not included as standard in our prices, so personal callers do not pay extra for postage they do not use. Naturally, we also deal by telephone and internet, as an extension of mail order which we have always operated. 
Shipping Costs
We calculate shipping (postage) and insurance costs separately for a number of good reasons. It is simpler to programme, clearer and more transparent to display, and more realistic. “Free Postage” is an illusion. On many of our bullion products, we also show prices including shipping costs. 
Competitor Comparison
We also show competitor comparison prices on most of our popular bullion products. This is for transparency, and to make it easier for you to see that we are usually the most competitive UK supplier. These comparisons are shown with and without shipping costs. 
Money Laundering, ID, and Compliance
Because we are major UK dealers, including high value, we are required to enforce anti-money laundering, anti-fraud, and other security measures. For most customers, this includes us taking full ID. Please understand this is not extra work we want to do, but we will try to help you through the process; please try to help us. We do not share your data with anybody unless we are required to do so. This would include suspicious behaviour, such as customers trying to evade tax or trying to provide false ID or other information. 
Security
Our premises are very secure, while at the same time keeping our showroom accessible. 
Secure Website and Hosting. Our websites and systems are highly secure. We commission security and penetration testing above and beyond what we are required to do, Our PEN tests, for example, are only required for “payment processors”. We are not “payment processors”, but having them provides evidence of extra security.
Know Your Supplier
Do think carefully who you are buying from. There are many impressive websites, which claim to be the biggest, or best dealer, but often with little evidence to back up their claim. Some have prestigious sounding central London addresses, which turn out to be rented accommodation addresses, while the actual business is run from from some seedy back street in Essex. Other websites fail to make it easy or clear to see who the business is, or its address. Exercise great caution when dealing with these.  
Jewellers Pawnshops Auctions and Ebay
We often see worn, damaged, substandard, or fake gold sovereigns and other coins which people think they have bought cheaply from some of these outlets. While it can obviously be possible to get the occasional bargain, the opposite is all too often the case. 
Peer to Peer
You may be able to buy some bullion coins from fellow collectors / stackers / investors, at closer to spot than from dealers, but possibly only in small quantities, and there are still matters of trust. Also, postage cost may still be a factor  
Buy-Back and Buying
Some “coin marketing companies” appear to be very reluctant to buy coins from ordinary people, while some “buy-back”, which implies they will only buy coins they have sold. Real dealers, like us, are more than happy to buy bullion and other coins from multiple sources, and pay competitive prices for them; typically around spot (100%) for the most popular bullion coins. 
Disclaimer
Although we have done our best to ensure our advice is sound, it does not constitute financial advice, and we do not accept any legal liability for it.
Any Other Business? If there is something we have not included in this page, anything you don’t understand, or have other questions which you think we should include, then please do get in touch. 
 
All comments welcome.
Spot an error, and you might win a pint!
😎
 

So Today I have finally taken the leap and handed my notice in at my Job. This will allow me to concentrate on Liquid Metals UK full time, from 3D designing to pouring and keeping my self up to track on the business side. This Wouldn't be possible with out all my amazing customers old and new so just wanted to say a massive thanks to all who follow me whether purchasing or even just a message of support.
THANKS 
 
 

Hi and welcome to the forum😄

I think they do it slowly so as not to destroy the housing market and various other areas of business 

The Bank of England has raised interest rates to their highest level in 13 years as it looks to tackle the cost of living crisis gripping the UK. 

It announced an increase from 0.75 per cent to 1 per cent on Thursday, a level which has not been seen since the aftermath of the financial crisis in early 2009.
The Bank of England’s Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) voted in favour of the rise with six votes to three. 
Those who opposed it - Jonathan Haskel, Catherine Mann, and Michael Saunders - wanted a larger increase to 1.25 per cent, the central bank said.

It was the fourth time in a row the committee has voted in favour of an interest rate hike, as the UK grapples with soaring inflation driven by rising energy costs. 
In its report on Thursday, it also warned the economy will go into reverse and inflation- will peak at more than 10 per cent as the Ukraine war compounds cripppling living costs.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/bank-interest-rates-uk-live-inflation-2022-b2072034.html

Unless the seller is in hospital, on remand, or  has passed away suddenly, I can't imagine any other scenario where they can't manage a get a quick message out to you with an update on your purchase within a two week time frame. Of course these days even  a mobile phone can get online and access sites like this making the chances of involuntary non contact to complete the purchase even slimmer. Hopefully you have covered yourself financially should the worst happen. 

This scenario though is a mugs scenario, most people who go into investing in PM's have an idea how it works and I'd say with confidence that not many, if at all any members on here would sell in a shop unless desperate, you could even liquify on here at a loss and still make more than the 355/18.50 at current spot prices of course.... 
but thinking of sovs, it was only a few weeks ago you could buy a sov off Harrington and Byrne for £319.99 then again at £329.99.... things can and do change both ways... if I bought a sov today at £370.00 it will be kept until i could at least break even if wanting to move it on.... gold is high atm so its a waiting game..
but i do get your drift, just dont get suckered in to sell back to a dealer or worse... a pawbroker!
and there are cheaper ways to get silver Brits than buying off the RM... and not necessarily having to buy in bulk.. 

Great point, if this hobby/addiction was solely about money,we'd all be sitting with bags of silver shot/grain or older scrap coinage. 
You have to enjoy the journey as it will hopefully be a long and fruitful one.

Autoexpress was a simple to understand snippet. I pointed you to the law on the DVLA web site but you seemed to cast doubt on their understanding of the legalities.

I thought that the difference was clear. There certainly doesn't have to be a financial security as the text refers to purchase or gift. An interpretation (and I never like those) is provided here https://www.autoexpress.co.uk . The emphasis on the keeper is simply that speeding fines, accidents, criminality are levied against the keeper - the person who would normally drive the vehicle.

What can I say...... two packages sent to the US have both failed to make it to their recipients and not because they were lost... Oh no, it was because they had the contents stolen.
Ok one did make it to the other side of the pond . However, the buyer kindly sent us pictures of the Royal Mail "Our Sincere Apologies" bag which contained hand cream packets instead of the silver brooch. So not damaged in transit, not lost behind a radiator but a premeditated action of switching contents. The second item didn't even make it that far..... After 14 days we got a package back to us in the same, pathetic bag tat hadn't even gone as far as the other. Even though it had security tape around the edges and openings it had a hole smashed in the top with the contents removed (the actual item was in another enclosed gift box that we send our items in) something that wouldn't have just fallen out so again; stolen!
Now I could be kind and say "ah well it could have been a mistake", but no, some thieving swine(s) did a premeditated act of taking the items, as they know that for international packages you have to state value on a customs form, on the package.
Another UK institute with "Royal" in its name that doesn't deliver... HAHA I made a pun, as they sure didn't deliver on both occasions 🙂
 
 

This is the site I use
https://www.britannia-uk.com/
Hope its helpful
 

This is the site I use
https://www.britannia-uk.com/
Hope its helpful
 

This is the site I use
https://www.britannia-uk.com/
Hope its helpful
 

Great topic. These are my reasons why i would personally pay the premiums for silver.
1) being new to metals, its great to get your hands on a lot of coins. It keeps you motivated to keep stacking
2) SHTF scenario silver would be used for barter as opposed to gold
3) potential bigger upside for silver, given the gold/silver ratio and its utility in industry
4) as others mentioned, could always swap silver for gold when ratio is lower
5) Its Beautiful!
i think its fair enough to be mainly into gold, but i think silver still has its place 
This is why i think this hobby/investment/community is so interesting. There are so many different reasons why people opt for precious metals
 
 

Broadly I agree gold making the most sense on paper than silver. The potential thing that could throw this though is if the 2 metals do not rise or fall by the exact same amount in the future. Say silver doubles or trebles in price whilst gold 'only' goes up by 25% in the same period. 
Just to be clear I'm not saying that is going to happen but the only true way you'll know which was best is when you come to sell at whatever point in the future that is. 
I like both metals. For me gold is the preference for practicality and as a store of wealth. £10k in silver is a significant hindrance if you want to move it about whereas £100k in gold could be transported relatively easily by almost any of the family. 

Great post and well reasoned. I can only speak for myself as a very new stacker but two things in silver's favour.
It's beautiful. I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I just find it mesmerizing. But that's by the by from a stacking / value perspective. It's a very useful 'entry point' to PM stacking I don't think that I'd have had the conviction to learn what I have learned if gold had been the only way in. I know it's 'actually' silly when confronted with the data, as per your post, but getting your hands on something big and heavy (and in multiples) was the key for me. That I've now come aorund to all the reasons for stacking gold that you mention, doesn't take away from what silver did in terms of piquing my interest.
Just wanted to make that important point. Aside from that, I agree with your conclusions but will stack some silver for aesthetic reasons - aside from my actual stacking ambitions.
FNF.

Interesting reading indeed, made it all the way to the end but the best premium for silver at 45% is flawed unless you are simply buying from ebay or dealers, you can get silver on here for as low as 20% premium and not just on a rare occasion... 
that said, everyone to their own and its all down to personal preferences and likes... i have a bit of gold and more silver than gold but a lot of it is the collection side as some silver is amazing and like you said, buy multiples to get a better price and sell those duplicates which pay for the ones you keep, quick example for you, selling 75 2oz silver completers over a two month period nets you a £750 minimum full clear profit, you keep one... so take off £52.00 ish (price at the time) and leaves you £700 quid to buy either gold or silver whilst adding to the collection for free...