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Bimetallic

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  1. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from GoldStandardPartyUK in Silver Premiums   
    Silver spot isn't based on 400 oz bars – gold comes in 400 oz bars, not silver. COMEX silver futures contracts are based on 5,000 troy ounces. It's nominally five 1,000 oz bars, for the rare traders who want to take physical delivery. (Silver's terminal bar size is 1,000 oz, and gold's is 400 oz.)
    Retail silver premiums are higher than normal, and have been since the pandemic got into full swing. Demand exploded. I'm not sure where demand is now, though Biden's fiscal policies should scare people. Premiums have come down a bit since the peak, at least in the US. Right now, we can get new Britannias for $29.90, which is a 20.5% premium over spot. This is a good baseline for new coins from a major world mint, from the lowest-priced dealer in North America, which is Silver.com. Link. Britannias tend to be among the cheapest of the major government-minted coins in the US market. Eagles are much more expensive, and Maples are usually in between. It's a good reference price for a VAT-free context. Some states will charge sales tax of 7-9% on bullion, but many won't and the listed price is before any sales tax is applied. So our premiums are much lower than in the UK probably. That's impressive since those Britannias had to be shipped across the pond.
  2. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from daca in Silver Premiums   
    Silver spot isn't based on 400 oz bars – gold comes in 400 oz bars, not silver. COMEX silver futures contracts are based on 5,000 troy ounces. It's nominally five 1,000 oz bars, for the rare traders who want to take physical delivery. (Silver's terminal bar size is 1,000 oz, and gold's is 400 oz.)
    Retail silver premiums are higher than normal, and have been since the pandemic got into full swing. Demand exploded. I'm not sure where demand is now, though Biden's fiscal policies should scare people. Premiums have come down a bit since the peak, at least in the US. Right now, we can get new Britannias for $29.90, which is a 20.5% premium over spot. This is a good baseline for new coins from a major world mint, from the lowest-priced dealer in North America, which is Silver.com. Link. Britannias tend to be among the cheapest of the major government-minted coins in the US market. Eagles are much more expensive, and Maples are usually in between. It's a good reference price for a VAT-free context. Some states will charge sales tax of 7-9% on bullion, but many won't and the listed price is before any sales tax is applied. So our premiums are much lower than in the UK probably. That's impressive since those Britannias had to be shipped across the pond.
  3. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from ak74 in Newbie - where to start?   
    Welcome. The two lowest priced dealers in the US are SD Bullion and Silver.com. APMEX is generally a rip-off if the product is available at the other two.
    Silver.com is owned by JM Bullion, but is significantly cheaper on most products. Why would JM Bullion operate a separate online dealer with lower prices than its existing store? It's complicated, but it has to do with price strategy, price discovery (learning the equilibrium price of a given product), and scooping up more search results on Google and so forth. JM Bullion bought the domain "Silver.com" for nearly a million dollars a few years ago to execute their strategy. Maybe @LawrenceChard can chime in with thoughts on this kind of dealer strategy.
    The choice between SD Bullion and Silver.com often comes down to shipping charges, because they'll be very close on price (and much cheaper than everyone else). Silver.com is often nominally cheaper, but the hitch is that they charge for shipping on all orders below $3,000. This is a much higher threshold than most dealers – it's usually set around $200. SD Bullion ships free for orders above $199. On the other hand, Silver.com only charges $5.95 for shipping, on those orders under $3,000, which is about the lowest shipping charge in the industry. SD Bullion charges $9.95, but that's only if your order is under $199.
    So when they're close on price, Silver.com will win on orders under $199. It gets complicated on orders above that, and you just have to do the math as needed. On orders over $3,000, Silver.com usually wins.
    Those two are where I recommend you buy all your bullion, if possible. They're virtually never beat by any other dealers on anything they actually have in stock. In fact, I can't remember a single time they've been beat, and I have lots of saved price data in spreadsheets. The exception is when a dealer has a sale, of course, some sort of promo. Those can be very handy, especially for beginners like yourself, since many of the best promos are specifically for new customers. I got a very nice 10 oz silver bar at spot price from SilverGoldBull last year, because I was a new customer there.
    So keep an eye out for promos. Subscribe to dealer newsletters and emails and you'll get offers. They all do it.
    The only time to deviate from SD Bullion or Silver.com or a promo is for something they just don't have in stock. That's when you go to JM Bullion, BOLD Precious Metals, Bullion Exchanges, Gainesville Coins, SilverGoldBull, et al. APMEX is your last resort. They're almost always a rip-off, but they also have the widest selection, and it's possible they'll be the only dealer stocking a 2 oz 2017 Silver Libertad or some such.
    Note that if you're stacking and not collecting, you'll never need to venture to overpriced dealers just because they have one specific thing that you want. If you're stacking, you can be more disciplined and patient. SD Bullion and Silver.com will always have the major products in stock, at least in normal market conditions. Right now there's a shortage everywhere, but they still have the flagship bullion products like the major national mint stuff (Eagles, Maple Leafs, Britannias, etc). Bars are mostly out of stock everywhere, with maybe one or two choices per size at major dealers, or zero stock of sizes like 1 oz.
    Also note that if you're in North Texas, DFW, etc and you buy from JM Bullion or Silver.com, it's not actually local in the physical sense. It's not coming from a local facility or fulfillment center. It's coming from Las Vegas. JMB doesn't do their own fulfillment. They farm that out to A-Mark, a major behind-the-scenes precious metals distributor with operations in Vegas. My SilverGoldBull order came from Vegas, so they probably use A-Mark as well (I think SilverGoldBull is based in Canada). SD Bullion does their own fulfillment. I think they're in Michigan.
    There's also Texas Precious Metals somewhere south of you. They have a good reputation in the industry, and they're the only dealer I know of that does limit orders, where you can trigger automatic purchases based on spot price movement or something.
    Gainesville Coins is good and they have lots of unique inventory with trident and sea themed designs.
    BOLD Precious Metals is pretty good, and carries a lot of fancier bullion, Marvel superhero stuff and so forth. The premiums on that will be steep though.
    Golden State Mint has unique inventory, and not too expensive. They're one of the few that carry a lot of the Silver Shield series, like the Freedom Girl rounds – those are great.
  4. Like
    Bimetallic reacted to Spark268 in Spot price, link to dealer prices and spot price apps.   
    its clear how feeds work in general, and the mark-ups that dealers have.
    However, gold trading is not centralised on any exchange: on LBMA there are trades for unallocated gold in London (for immediate "delivery" in London), and the CME/Globex price reflects bids/offers for the future (for delivery of 100oz bars in the US). Between the two, as seen last March there were significant differences.  
    There are other exchanges, such as the Shanghai Gold Exchange and that in Dubai etc. This is not to mention the significant number of off-exchange private trades. On top of the different exchanges, locations, there are different deliverables (400oz, 100oz, 1oz eagles, 30g Pandas, sovereigns etc). To get a single, universally acceptable gold price, all these factors need to be controlled for, ideally volume weighted to reflect the size of each market. Gold itself might be fungible, but in practice in the way it is traded, it is not, unlike FX, shares or bonds etc.
    Some sources may take a single source, whilst others may use a blend. Under normal circumstances (such as now), where the differences are negligible, the methodology does not matter, and we are none the wiser.
    When there are disruptions, large discrepancies occur between sources (~$50/oz) and this becomes apparent in the various sources. I believe it is specifically this that the OP was wondering, and its a good question, as there is very little transparency on precisely what aggregation methodology the feeds are using.  To overly simplify, I would guess that dealers in the US use a feed that relies mostly on CME/Globex, and in the UK it will be the LBMA sourced price.
     
  5. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from Spark268 in Spot price, link to dealer prices and spot price apps.   
    Does anyone know what spot price Bullion By Post uses? i.e. where they get their spot price?
    An underexposed and annoying issue with "the" spot price is that no one seems to know what price they're talking about, or where it's coming from. There is no such thing as the spot price for gold or silver, as in a worldwide spot price independent of any specific market or exchange. The only spot prices that actually exist come from specific exchanges like COMEX, Shanghai, etc. I have no idea what is normally used by British dealers. There might be an exchange in London – I'm not sure. (I mean for up-to-the-second spot price, not things like the LBMA gold fix that happens twice each weekday.)
    I posted about this last year, asking where people were getting their spot price, meaning which market or exchange. As I recall, no one knew. Even the owner of this forum didn't know where his spot price was coming from, the one displayed at the top of the site – he said it was the World Spot Price, but that doesn't exist.
    The spot price feeds on different dealer websites differ significantly, and I've never figured out why that is. There was a 42 cent difference at one point between APMEX and SilverPrice.org, and that was when silver was under $15.00 per ounce, so it was a huge disparity.
  6. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from Roy in Postage (minimum standards)   
    This is an underexposed way to save on shipping. It makes a lot of sense for an ounce of silver or a gram of gold.
    In the US a big obstacle is a persistent myth that a bubble mailer is a package, or that a rigid mailer is a package. This matters because a package costs a lot more to ship than First-Class Large Envelope (or "flats" in US Postal Service parlance). Padded and rigid mailers will almost always pass the USPS requirements for large envelopes, but people repeat the myth all the time, including postal employees.
    They also pass Royal Mail requirements. In the US they can be up to ¾ inches thick, with no more than ¼ inch of variance in thickness. In the UK, they can be up to a full inch thick. The downside in the US is that no tracking is provided, unlike First-Class Package Service, at least not by the USPS – third parties can offer a sort of tracking based on the barcode scans.
  7. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from Booky586 in Dorset coin company   
    That's strange behavior, though I know people who would make the bad "sucker" joke in a way that wouldn't be meant as an insult. There's a personality type that would think that it was an innocent, throwaway joke, not meaning it seriously. There are all kinds of people out there, and some jokes don't do as well in various mediums, like email. He might be one of those people, thinking it was funny but not insulting, or maybe he really is a jerk.
    The fact that you never posted your end, or the full thread, gives me some pause, since people repeatedly requested it. From what I see, you only paraphrase your end of part of the thread, I think your first reply to his reply. We can't really know anything about this situation without seeing both sides, not just one side.
    On the price issue, there's no such thing as a "fair price" in the sense of someone else being obligated to agree that it's fair, much less agree to the price. Humans have a rich psychology around price and trade and sometimes this wobbly concept of "fair price" (which people use in a lot of different meanings). If someone doesn't agree to an offered price, there's no point in complaining that it was a "fair price". It doesn't add any information to our understanding of a situation or attempted transaction. This reminds me of people who talk about wanting retail silver to reach its "true" price (they usually call it "physical" silver, but they're exclusively referring to retail silver specifically, not physical as purchased by industry or anyone else). It's already at its true price, since the market price is the only true price, unless we think there's some kind of broad manipulation of retail silver, a tiny market that hardly anyone cares about.
    In this case, a seller's behavior is a big clue to how "fair" or "true" a price is. Since he didn't accept the price, it's likely that he's able to sell them at his listed prices (or he thinks he can, and he'll either be right or wrong about that). So it doesn't mean anything to say a price is "fair" if the market is carrying along at a much higher price.  (Buyer behavior is also a clue to fair or true prices. Your rejection of his price could've indicated that it was too high if you were able to get it for your price elsewhere, or if he wasn't able to sell any at his listed price, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.) You offered more than 20% over spot, which seems like a lot for gold, even in this market, but I guess those guineas are going for much more. (They were out of stock at Bullion by Post and Chard's when I looked.)
  8. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from SeverinDigsSovereigns in Dorset coin company   
    Nah man, I'm not buying it then. You keep making excuses to hide what you told him, and I have to assume there's a reason for that. If you're the one who first used the word "sucker" in the convo, for example, then his reply would be interpreted very differently. Like if you said "I'd have to be a sucker to pay that price..." and he replied joking about you being a sucker, that's very different. I have no idea what happened – that's just one easy to imagine possibility. There's no point trashing a seller by quoting only one side of an exchange, and we'd have to be suckers to fall for one-sided reports.
  9. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from Booky586 in Dorset coin company   
    Nah man, I'm not buying it then. You keep making excuses to hide what you told him, and I have to assume there's a reason for that. If you're the one who first used the word "sucker" in the convo, for example, then his reply would be interpreted very differently. Like if you said "I'd have to be a sucker to pay that price..." and he replied joking about you being a sucker, that's very different. I have no idea what happened – that's just one easy to imagine possibility. There's no point trashing a seller by quoting only one side of an exchange, and we'd have to be suckers to fall for one-sided reports.
  10. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from LawrenceChard in Dorset coin company   
    Nah man, I'm not buying it then. You keep making excuses to hide what you told him, and I have to assume there's a reason for that. If you're the one who first used the word "sucker" in the convo, for example, then his reply would be interpreted very differently. Like if you said "I'd have to be a sucker to pay that price..." and he replied joking about you being a sucker, that's very different. I have no idea what happened – that's just one easy to imagine possibility. There's no point trashing a seller by quoting only one side of an exchange, and we'd have to be suckers to fall for one-sided reports.
  11. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from LawrenceChard in Dorset coin company   
    That's strange behavior, though I know people who would make the bad "sucker" joke in a way that wouldn't be meant as an insult. There's a personality type that would think that it was an innocent, throwaway joke, not meaning it seriously. There are all kinds of people out there, and some jokes don't do as well in various mediums, like email. He might be one of those people, thinking it was funny but not insulting, or maybe he really is a jerk.
    The fact that you never posted your end, or the full thread, gives me some pause, since people repeatedly requested it. From what I see, you only paraphrase your end of part of the thread, I think your first reply to his reply. We can't really know anything about this situation without seeing both sides, not just one side.
    On the price issue, there's no such thing as a "fair price" in the sense of someone else being obligated to agree that it's fair, much less agree to the price. Humans have a rich psychology around price and trade and sometimes this wobbly concept of "fair price" (which people use in a lot of different meanings). If someone doesn't agree to an offered price, there's no point in complaining that it was a "fair price". It doesn't add any information to our understanding of a situation or attempted transaction. This reminds me of people who talk about wanting retail silver to reach its "true" price (they usually call it "physical" silver, but they're exclusively referring to retail silver specifically, not physical as purchased by industry or anyone else). It's already at its true price, since the market price is the only true price, unless we think there's some kind of broad manipulation of retail silver, a tiny market that hardly anyone cares about.
    In this case, a seller's behavior is a big clue to how "fair" or "true" a price is. Since he didn't accept the price, it's likely that he's able to sell them at his listed prices (or he thinks he can, and he'll either be right or wrong about that). So it doesn't mean anything to say a price is "fair" if the market is carrying along at a much higher price.  (Buyer behavior is also a clue to fair or true prices. Your rejection of his price could've indicated that it was too high if you were able to get it for your price elsewhere, or if he wasn't able to sell any at his listed price, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.) You offered more than 20% over spot, which seems like a lot for gold, even in this market, but I guess those guineas are going for much more. (They were out of stock at Bullion by Post and Chard's when I looked.)
  12. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from Zhorro in Dorset coin company   
    That's strange behavior, though I know people who would make the bad "sucker" joke in a way that wouldn't be meant as an insult. There's a personality type that would think that it was an innocent, throwaway joke, not meaning it seriously. There are all kinds of people out there, and some jokes don't do as well in various mediums, like email. He might be one of those people, thinking it was funny but not insulting, or maybe he really is a jerk.
    The fact that you never posted your end, or the full thread, gives me some pause, since people repeatedly requested it. From what I see, you only paraphrase your end of part of the thread, I think your first reply to his reply. We can't really know anything about this situation without seeing both sides, not just one side.
    On the price issue, there's no such thing as a "fair price" in the sense of someone else being obligated to agree that it's fair, much less agree to the price. Humans have a rich psychology around price and trade and sometimes this wobbly concept of "fair price" (which people use in a lot of different meanings). If someone doesn't agree to an offered price, there's no point in complaining that it was a "fair price". It doesn't add any information to our understanding of a situation or attempted transaction. This reminds me of people who talk about wanting retail silver to reach its "true" price (they usually call it "physical" silver, but they're exclusively referring to retail silver specifically, not physical as purchased by industry or anyone else). It's already at its true price, since the market price is the only true price, unless we think there's some kind of broad manipulation of retail silver, a tiny market that hardly anyone cares about.
    In this case, a seller's behavior is a big clue to how "fair" or "true" a price is. Since he didn't accept the price, it's likely that he's able to sell them at his listed prices (or he thinks he can, and he'll either be right or wrong about that). So it doesn't mean anything to say a price is "fair" if the market is carrying along at a much higher price.  (Buyer behavior is also a clue to fair or true prices. Your rejection of his price could've indicated that it was too high if you were able to get it for your price elsewhere, or if he wasn't able to sell any at his listed price, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.) You offered more than 20% over spot, which seems like a lot for gold, even in this market, but I guess those guineas are going for much more. (They were out of stock at Bullion by Post and Chard's when I looked.)
  13. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from MythicQuale in Metals vulnerable to staining/tarnishing ordered by least to most resistant?   
    That article is bogus. All their photo examples are non-pure gold, while talking about pure gold's properties... The American Double Eagle coin they feature is only 90% gold, balance copper. The Krug is 91.7% gold (Crown gold), balance copper. So what are they talking about? It's weird.
    Their Roman example might be 99% gold, but it varied and lots of emperors issued those coins for a roughly 400+ year period. I wouldn't expect modern standards of quality control with 2,000 year old coins, even Roman ones...
  14. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from Bluegeo in Weighing scales   
    I don't think there's much brand differentiation for scales at this point. I bought mine on Amazon for $15.00 and it works great. The brand is some random Chinese firm that doesn't exist anymore apparently.
    The scales that measure hundredths of a gram are typically 50 or 100 gram scales, so that's what you're looking for. They will either be billed as "food scales" or "jewelers scales". I would go for the latter if there's a choice between the two.
    Mine came with a calibration weight, which is handy. That will tell you how off your scale is. If you want a higher end scale, look at scientific lab scales and balances. Those might cost more than $100. Otherwise I would just choose something with excellent reviews on Amazon.
  15. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from Bixley in Metals vulnerable to staining/tarnishing ordered by least to most resistant?   
    Silver is the worst by far. Then:
    Copper
    Aluminum
    Gold
    Osmium
    Note that aluminum is usually made into alloys with magnesium, zinc, silicon, and sometimes copper and other metals. Pure aluminum isn't used as much as the alloys are, and the alloys vary in their corrosion resistance.
    Osmium is super rare, hardly used in the world.
    Stainless steel's corrosion resistance varies depending on the type of stainless alloy it is. It's like aluminum. There is nothing simply called "stainless steel" – it's always a specific grade/alloy. They all have double-digit percentages of chromium, and one of the usual differentiators is whether they have nickel as well, and how much nickel. Nickel enhances their corrosion resistance, and the common 304 and 316 have quite a bit, especially the latter. 316 also has molybdenum, which helps too. Another approach to better corrosion resistance is to add nitrogen, and you see this in some stainless knife steels. You can achieve good corrosion resistance without any nickel if you have nitrogen and maybe better control over the process.
    The cheapest stainless has no nickel, e.g. the 400 series (nickel is super expensive at over $8.00 per pound). Like 430 stainless, which is what Mexico makes all their circulation coins from. It's not as corrosion resistant as the 300 series with all their nickel, but it's good enough for a lot of purposes, like coins evidently. Smart mints use steel for coins, not expensive nickel and copper as base materials, with the big differentiator being whether they plate cheap mild steel with nickel (or layers of nickel, copper, and nickel again, like the Royal Canadian Mint) or whether they use stainless and don't bother with plating. It's a trade-off with the cost of the chromium in stainless steel, vs the lower material cost of plain mild steel but then having to plate it in nickel and copper.
  16. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from Bluegeo in How many ounces in a Kilo bar?   
    Always use troy ounces for precious metals. Conveniently, there's an exact conversion from troy ounces to grams because of the International Yard and Pound Agreement from the 1950s. By that agreement, a troy ounce is exactly 31.1034768 grams. As others noted, a kilogram is 1000 grams / 31.1034768 grams/oz t. So it's 32.15075 troy ounces.
    That's slightly different from the above offered values because I used the correct, exact value of a troy ounce. I don't like rounding errors. Unfortunately the result probably goes on forever, so you have to cut it off at some point.
  17. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from Lr103 in Newbie - where to start?   
    Welcome. The two lowest priced dealers in the US are SD Bullion and Silver.com. APMEX is generally a rip-off if the product is available at the other two.
    Silver.com is owned by JM Bullion, but is significantly cheaper on most products. Why would JM Bullion operate a separate online dealer with lower prices than its existing store? It's complicated, but it has to do with price strategy, price discovery (learning the equilibrium price of a given product), and scooping up more search results on Google and so forth. JM Bullion bought the domain "Silver.com" for nearly a million dollars a few years ago to execute their strategy. Maybe @LawrenceChard can chime in with thoughts on this kind of dealer strategy.
    The choice between SD Bullion and Silver.com often comes down to shipping charges, because they'll be very close on price (and much cheaper than everyone else). Silver.com is often nominally cheaper, but the hitch is that they charge for shipping on all orders below $3,000. This is a much higher threshold than most dealers – it's usually set around $200. SD Bullion ships free for orders above $199. On the other hand, Silver.com only charges $5.95 for shipping, on those orders under $3,000, which is about the lowest shipping charge in the industry. SD Bullion charges $9.95, but that's only if your order is under $199.
    So when they're close on price, Silver.com will win on orders under $199. It gets complicated on orders above that, and you just have to do the math as needed. On orders over $3,000, Silver.com usually wins.
    Those two are where I recommend you buy all your bullion, if possible. They're virtually never beat by any other dealers on anything they actually have in stock. In fact, I can't remember a single time they've been beat, and I have lots of saved price data in spreadsheets. The exception is when a dealer has a sale, of course, some sort of promo. Those can be very handy, especially for beginners like yourself, since many of the best promos are specifically for new customers. I got a very nice 10 oz silver bar at spot price from SilverGoldBull last year, because I was a new customer there.
    So keep an eye out for promos. Subscribe to dealer newsletters and emails and you'll get offers. They all do it.
    The only time to deviate from SD Bullion or Silver.com or a promo is for something they just don't have in stock. That's when you go to JM Bullion, BOLD Precious Metals, Bullion Exchanges, Gainesville Coins, SilverGoldBull, et al. APMEX is your last resort. They're almost always a rip-off, but they also have the widest selection, and it's possible they'll be the only dealer stocking a 2 oz 2017 Silver Libertad or some such.
    Note that if you're stacking and not collecting, you'll never need to venture to overpriced dealers just because they have one specific thing that you want. If you're stacking, you can be more disciplined and patient. SD Bullion and Silver.com will always have the major products in stock, at least in normal market conditions. Right now there's a shortage everywhere, but they still have the flagship bullion products like the major national mint stuff (Eagles, Maple Leafs, Britannias, etc). Bars are mostly out of stock everywhere, with maybe one or two choices per size at major dealers, or zero stock of sizes like 1 oz.
    Also note that if you're in North Texas, DFW, etc and you buy from JM Bullion or Silver.com, it's not actually local in the physical sense. It's not coming from a local facility or fulfillment center. It's coming from Las Vegas. JMB doesn't do their own fulfillment. They farm that out to A-Mark, a major behind-the-scenes precious metals distributor with operations in Vegas. My SilverGoldBull order came from Vegas, so they probably use A-Mark as well (I think SilverGoldBull is based in Canada). SD Bullion does their own fulfillment. I think they're in Michigan.
    There's also Texas Precious Metals somewhere south of you. They have a good reputation in the industry, and they're the only dealer I know of that does limit orders, where you can trigger automatic purchases based on spot price movement or something.
    Gainesville Coins is good and they have lots of unique inventory with trident and sea themed designs.
    BOLD Precious Metals is pretty good, and carries a lot of fancier bullion, Marvel superhero stuff and so forth. The premiums on that will be steep though.
    Golden State Mint has unique inventory, and not too expensive. They're one of the few that carry a lot of the Silver Shield series, like the Freedom Girl rounds – those are great.
  18. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from SilverStorm in Newbie - where to start?   
    Welcome. The two lowest priced dealers in the US are SD Bullion and Silver.com. APMEX is generally a rip-off if the product is available at the other two.
    Silver.com is owned by JM Bullion, but is significantly cheaper on most products. Why would JM Bullion operate a separate online dealer with lower prices than its existing store? It's complicated, but it has to do with price strategy, price discovery (learning the equilibrium price of a given product), and scooping up more search results on Google and so forth. JM Bullion bought the domain "Silver.com" for nearly a million dollars a few years ago to execute their strategy. Maybe @LawrenceChard can chime in with thoughts on this kind of dealer strategy.
    The choice between SD Bullion and Silver.com often comes down to shipping charges, because they'll be very close on price (and much cheaper than everyone else). Silver.com is often nominally cheaper, but the hitch is that they charge for shipping on all orders below $3,000. This is a much higher threshold than most dealers – it's usually set around $200. SD Bullion ships free for orders above $199. On the other hand, Silver.com only charges $5.95 for shipping, on those orders under $3,000, which is about the lowest shipping charge in the industry. SD Bullion charges $9.95, but that's only if your order is under $199.
    So when they're close on price, Silver.com will win on orders under $199. It gets complicated on orders above that, and you just have to do the math as needed. On orders over $3,000, Silver.com usually wins.
    Those two are where I recommend you buy all your bullion, if possible. They're virtually never beat by any other dealers on anything they actually have in stock. In fact, I can't remember a single time they've been beat, and I have lots of saved price data in spreadsheets. The exception is when a dealer has a sale, of course, some sort of promo. Those can be very handy, especially for beginners like yourself, since many of the best promos are specifically for new customers. I got a very nice 10 oz silver bar at spot price from SilverGoldBull last year, because I was a new customer there.
    So keep an eye out for promos. Subscribe to dealer newsletters and emails and you'll get offers. They all do it.
    The only time to deviate from SD Bullion or Silver.com or a promo is for something they just don't have in stock. That's when you go to JM Bullion, BOLD Precious Metals, Bullion Exchanges, Gainesville Coins, SilverGoldBull, et al. APMEX is your last resort. They're almost always a rip-off, but they also have the widest selection, and it's possible they'll be the only dealer stocking a 2 oz 2017 Silver Libertad or some such.
    Note that if you're stacking and not collecting, you'll never need to venture to overpriced dealers just because they have one specific thing that you want. If you're stacking, you can be more disciplined and patient. SD Bullion and Silver.com will always have the major products in stock, at least in normal market conditions. Right now there's a shortage everywhere, but they still have the flagship bullion products like the major national mint stuff (Eagles, Maple Leafs, Britannias, etc). Bars are mostly out of stock everywhere, with maybe one or two choices per size at major dealers, or zero stock of sizes like 1 oz.
    Also note that if you're in North Texas, DFW, etc and you buy from JM Bullion or Silver.com, it's not actually local in the physical sense. It's not coming from a local facility or fulfillment center. It's coming from Las Vegas. JMB doesn't do their own fulfillment. They farm that out to A-Mark, a major behind-the-scenes precious metals distributor with operations in Vegas. My SilverGoldBull order came from Vegas, so they probably use A-Mark as well (I think SilverGoldBull is based in Canada). SD Bullion does their own fulfillment. I think they're in Michigan.
    There's also Texas Precious Metals somewhere south of you. They have a good reputation in the industry, and they're the only dealer I know of that does limit orders, where you can trigger automatic purchases based on spot price movement or something.
    Gainesville Coins is good and they have lots of unique inventory with trident and sea themed designs.
    BOLD Precious Metals is pretty good, and carries a lot of fancier bullion, Marvel superhero stuff and so forth. The premiums on that will be steep though.
    Golden State Mint has unique inventory, and not too expensive. They're one of the few that carry a lot of the Silver Shield series, like the Freedom Girl rounds – those are great.
  19. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from CadmiumGreen in Newbie - where to start?   
    Welcome. The two lowest priced dealers in the US are SD Bullion and Silver.com. APMEX is generally a rip-off if the product is available at the other two.
    Silver.com is owned by JM Bullion, but is significantly cheaper on most products. Why would JM Bullion operate a separate online dealer with lower prices than its existing store? It's complicated, but it has to do with price strategy, price discovery (learning the equilibrium price of a given product), and scooping up more search results on Google and so forth. JM Bullion bought the domain "Silver.com" for nearly a million dollars a few years ago to execute their strategy. Maybe @LawrenceChard can chime in with thoughts on this kind of dealer strategy.
    The choice between SD Bullion and Silver.com often comes down to shipping charges, because they'll be very close on price (and much cheaper than everyone else). Silver.com is often nominally cheaper, but the hitch is that they charge for shipping on all orders below $3,000. This is a much higher threshold than most dealers – it's usually set around $200. SD Bullion ships free for orders above $199. On the other hand, Silver.com only charges $5.95 for shipping, on those orders under $3,000, which is about the lowest shipping charge in the industry. SD Bullion charges $9.95, but that's only if your order is under $199.
    So when they're close on price, Silver.com will win on orders under $199. It gets complicated on orders above that, and you just have to do the math as needed. On orders over $3,000, Silver.com usually wins.
    Those two are where I recommend you buy all your bullion, if possible. They're virtually never beat by any other dealers on anything they actually have in stock. In fact, I can't remember a single time they've been beat, and I have lots of saved price data in spreadsheets. The exception is when a dealer has a sale, of course, some sort of promo. Those can be very handy, especially for beginners like yourself, since many of the best promos are specifically for new customers. I got a very nice 10 oz silver bar at spot price from SilverGoldBull last year, because I was a new customer there.
    So keep an eye out for promos. Subscribe to dealer newsletters and emails and you'll get offers. They all do it.
    The only time to deviate from SD Bullion or Silver.com or a promo is for something they just don't have in stock. That's when you go to JM Bullion, BOLD Precious Metals, Bullion Exchanges, Gainesville Coins, SilverGoldBull, et al. APMEX is your last resort. They're almost always a rip-off, but they also have the widest selection, and it's possible they'll be the only dealer stocking a 2 oz 2017 Silver Libertad or some such.
    Note that if you're stacking and not collecting, you'll never need to venture to overpriced dealers just because they have one specific thing that you want. If you're stacking, you can be more disciplined and patient. SD Bullion and Silver.com will always have the major products in stock, at least in normal market conditions. Right now there's a shortage everywhere, but they still have the flagship bullion products like the major national mint stuff (Eagles, Maple Leafs, Britannias, etc). Bars are mostly out of stock everywhere, with maybe one or two choices per size at major dealers, or zero stock of sizes like 1 oz.
    Also note that if you're in North Texas, DFW, etc and you buy from JM Bullion or Silver.com, it's not actually local in the physical sense. It's not coming from a local facility or fulfillment center. It's coming from Las Vegas. JMB doesn't do their own fulfillment. They farm that out to A-Mark, a major behind-the-scenes precious metals distributor with operations in Vegas. My SilverGoldBull order came from Vegas, so they probably use A-Mark as well (I think SilverGoldBull is based in Canada). SD Bullion does their own fulfillment. I think they're in Michigan.
    There's also Texas Precious Metals somewhere south of you. They have a good reputation in the industry, and they're the only dealer I know of that does limit orders, where you can trigger automatic purchases based on spot price movement or something.
    Gainesville Coins is good and they have lots of unique inventory with trident and sea themed designs.
    BOLD Precious Metals is pretty good, and carries a lot of fancier bullion, Marvel superhero stuff and so forth. The premiums on that will be steep though.
    Golden State Mint has unique inventory, and not too expensive. They're one of the few that carry a lot of the Silver Shield series, like the Freedom Girl rounds – those are great.
  20. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from Steve007 in Weighing scales   
    I don't think there's much brand differentiation for scales at this point. I bought mine on Amazon for $15.00 and it works great. The brand is some random Chinese firm that doesn't exist anymore apparently.
    The scales that measure hundredths of a gram are typically 50 or 100 gram scales, so that's what you're looking for. They will either be billed as "food scales" or "jewelers scales". I would go for the latter if there's a choice between the two.
    Mine came with a calibration weight, which is handy. That will tell you how off your scale is. If you want a higher end scale, look at scientific lab scales and balances. Those might cost more than $100. Otherwise I would just choose something with excellent reviews on Amazon.
  21. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from silvernewbie in PAMP Ruthenium bars   
    The premium doesn't surprise me, since it's new and unusual. There's simply no way for anyone to assess its likely performance as an investment at this point because it's so new and there's no track record or data to refer to.
    That said, ruthenium will surely never be a widespread, common precious metal in bullion form. This is a market that is already somewhat small, with gold and silver firmly established as the core precious metals / "monetary metals". Platinum is a distant third, and palladium a distant fourth that is far, far behind platinum. There isn't really any room for displacement of gold and silver, since a different metal wouldn't do anything different or better than gold and silver – it's not like there's room for meaningful innovation here. The metals are just stores of value, inert chunks, and the cultural place of gold and silver isn't going to give way to any other metals.
    Ruthenium is a platinum group metal, one of six including iridium, osmium, palladium, platinum, and rhodium. I've seen rhodium bullion every now and then, but this is the first I've heard of ruthenium bullion. It makes sense that they would try other platinum group metals, but the long-term interest is unclear. It's definitely not a short-term play given how hard it will be to sell, so if you buy them you should plan to keep them for years, after which it might be easier to sell them.
  22. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from Antwerpstacker in PAMP Ruthenium bars   
    The premium doesn't surprise me, since it's new and unusual. There's simply no way for anyone to assess its likely performance as an investment at this point because it's so new and there's no track record or data to refer to.
    That said, ruthenium will surely never be a widespread, common precious metal in bullion form. This is a market that is already somewhat small, with gold and silver firmly established as the core precious metals / "monetary metals". Platinum is a distant third, and palladium a distant fourth that is far, far behind platinum. There isn't really any room for displacement of gold and silver, since a different metal wouldn't do anything different or better than gold and silver – it's not like there's room for meaningful innovation here. The metals are just stores of value, inert chunks, and the cultural place of gold and silver isn't going to give way to any other metals.
    Ruthenium is a platinum group metal, one of six including iridium, osmium, palladium, platinum, and rhodium. I've seen rhodium bullion every now and then, but this is the first I've heard of ruthenium bullion. It makes sense that they would try other platinum group metals, but the long-term interest is unclear. It's definitely not a short-term play given how hard it will be to sell, so if you buy them you should plan to keep them for years, after which it might be easier to sell them.
  23. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from Arganto in Best definition of "bullion"   
    Hi all – I need a perfect definition of precious metals bullion for a tax reform project I'm working on.
    What comes to mind when you think of what bullion is, fundamentally, and how you'd define it rigorously?
    Note that I've sometimes seen people define bullion as exclusively the government minted stuff, or even coins specifically (coins being defined as having a nominal value). I mean bullion in what I understand as the more common definition that includes both government minted and privately minted products.
    But what is it, precisely? What makes an object "bullion"?
    Note also that a good definition can't specify a fineness or purity. Reason: We have to let the market decide to allow for innovation and changes in preferences. Any government dictated fineness is ultimately arbitrary and makes no sense. And in actual practice, government definitions in Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand, for example, dictate unreasonable fineness levels of 99 or 995, which excludes some of the most popular bullion in the world, like American Gold Eagles, Gold Krugerrands, Sovereigns, pre-2012 Silver Britannias, and pretty much all coin silver (aka "junk" silver).
    If someone wants to offer bullion products in a silver alloy similar to Britannia silver (958 fine) or Sterling (925), or any other purity, they should be free to do so without being tax-disadvantaged. (I for one would love it if a mint used Argentium silver for bullion bars. It's a great alloy, much harder and tarnish-resistant.) We can't predict what people might invent or develop as far as bullion alloys and purity levels in the future, so a good legal framework should let the market decide.
    In some US state laws I see phrasing like "ingots sold according to its precious metal content and not form".
    That comes up often in definitions – the idea that bullion is sold or defined by its precious metals content – the weight – as opposed to other factors like numismatics or collectible nature. One challenge is that I'd want at least the precious metals content in numismatic items to be tax-exempt, while taxing some increment above its melt value.
    What do you think a good definition would be? What are the essential characteristics of bullion?
    Thanks.
  24. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from SilverJacks in Best definition of "bullion"   
    Hi all – I need a perfect definition of precious metals bullion for a tax reform project I'm working on.
    What comes to mind when you think of what bullion is, fundamentally, and how you'd define it rigorously?
    Note that I've sometimes seen people define bullion as exclusively the government minted stuff, or even coins specifically (coins being defined as having a nominal value). I mean bullion in what I understand as the more common definition that includes both government minted and privately minted products.
    But what is it, precisely? What makes an object "bullion"?
    Note also that a good definition can't specify a fineness or purity. Reason: We have to let the market decide to allow for innovation and changes in preferences. Any government dictated fineness is ultimately arbitrary and makes no sense. And in actual practice, government definitions in Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand, for example, dictate unreasonable fineness levels of 99 or 995, which excludes some of the most popular bullion in the world, like American Gold Eagles, Gold Krugerrands, Sovereigns, pre-2012 Silver Britannias, and pretty much all coin silver (aka "junk" silver).
    If someone wants to offer bullion products in a silver alloy similar to Britannia silver (958 fine) or Sterling (925), or any other purity, they should be free to do so without being tax-disadvantaged. (I for one would love it if a mint used Argentium silver for bullion bars. It's a great alloy, much harder and tarnish-resistant.) We can't predict what people might invent or develop as far as bullion alloys and purity levels in the future, so a good legal framework should let the market decide.
    In some US state laws I see phrasing like "ingots sold according to its precious metal content and not form".
    That comes up often in definitions – the idea that bullion is sold or defined by its precious metals content – the weight – as opposed to other factors like numismatics or collectible nature. One challenge is that I'd want at least the precious metals content in numismatic items to be tax-exempt, while taxing some increment above its melt value.
    What do you think a good definition would be? What are the essential characteristics of bullion?
    Thanks.
  25. Like
    Bimetallic got a reaction from stackerp5 in Best definition of "bullion"   
    Hi all – I need a perfect definition of precious metals bullion for a tax reform project I'm working on.
    What comes to mind when you think of what bullion is, fundamentally, and how you'd define it rigorously?
    Note that I've sometimes seen people define bullion as exclusively the government minted stuff, or even coins specifically (coins being defined as having a nominal value). I mean bullion in what I understand as the more common definition that includes both government minted and privately minted products.
    But what is it, precisely? What makes an object "bullion"?
    Note also that a good definition can't specify a fineness or purity. Reason: We have to let the market decide to allow for innovation and changes in preferences. Any government dictated fineness is ultimately arbitrary and makes no sense. And in actual practice, government definitions in Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand, for example, dictate unreasonable fineness levels of 99 or 995, which excludes some of the most popular bullion in the world, like American Gold Eagles, Gold Krugerrands, Sovereigns, pre-2012 Silver Britannias, and pretty much all coin silver (aka "junk" silver).
    If someone wants to offer bullion products in a silver alloy similar to Britannia silver (958 fine) or Sterling (925), or any other purity, they should be free to do so without being tax-disadvantaged. (I for one would love it if a mint used Argentium silver for bullion bars. It's a great alloy, much harder and tarnish-resistant.) We can't predict what people might invent or develop as far as bullion alloys and purity levels in the future, so a good legal framework should let the market decide.
    In some US state laws I see phrasing like "ingots sold according to its precious metal content and not form".
    That comes up often in definitions – the idea that bullion is sold or defined by its precious metals content – the weight – as opposed to other factors like numismatics or collectible nature. One challenge is that I'd want at least the precious metals content in numismatic items to be tax-exempt, while taxing some increment above its melt value.
    What do you think a good definition would be? What are the essential characteristics of bullion?
    Thanks.
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