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I was leaning towards voting Conservative in the General election until today.

 I will go as far to say it is the GREAT TORY BETRAYAL. I am talking about the new proposed Tax on home owners .

  The TORY DEATH (DIEING) TAX.  This is everything that the Conservatives use to be against, a person or a couple work hard all there lives paying all the Taxes and NI that the Government ask for, then they have the rug pulled from under their feet. So the one asset the majority of people in this country have (not the members of this forum) is taxed at a enormous percentage  taking in mind the average price of a home in the UK.

So why are the Conservatives Taxing the working class and lower middle class ( richer than this you can afford instruments to get around the Tax).  They say it is for Social care cost and it is true the money will go towards the costs of social care, though i believe the real reason is more spiteful than that.  IMO the real reason for for Death Tax on home owners is to stop the next generation of surfs/PLEBS from buying properties forcing them into high cost renting releasing properties onto the market for their friends to purchase houses/apartments a favorable prices then rent them out back to the next generation who would of been the buyers of the properties returning the Landlords an excellent return on their investment and this will in turn suggest the economy is improving, though in real terms the lives and well being of millions of people will be effected  negatively financially and emotionally. I believe anyone who believes the Conservatives have a mind to build more homes than a bear minimum and certainly anyone who thinks the Conservatives have a mind to lower Rents moving forward will be very disappointed.

 IMO The Conseratives have plans to LOWER HOME OWNERSHIP BY PERCENTAGE OF POPULATION  in the middle to long term and raise rents leaving lower income households with less money to spend on food utilities clothes etc.  

I am a swing voter not a Labour voter.  It did not come easy righting this post but I feel i had no choice the Conservatives ring fencing the Death Home Tax to social car have been very spiteful and have back stabbed millions of home owners in this country.                            

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5 minutes ago, Pipers said:

I was leaning towards voting Conservative in the General election until today.

 I will go as far to say it is the GREAT TORY BETRAYAL. I am talking about the new proposed Tax on home owners .

  The TORY DEATH (DIEING) TAX.  This is everything that the Conservatives use to be against, a person or a couple work hard all there lives paying all the Taxes and NI that the Government ask for, then they have the rug pulled from under their feet. So the one asset the majority of people in this country have (not the members of this forum) is taxed at a enormous percentage  taking in mind the average price of a home in the UK.

So why are the Conservatives Taxing the working class and lower middle class ( richer than this you can afford instruments to get around the Tax).  They say it is for Social care cost and it is true the money will go towards the costs of social care, though i believe the real reason is more spiteful than that.  IMO the real reason for for Death Tax on home owners is to stop the next generation of surfs/PLEBS from buying properties forcing them into high cost renting releasing properties onto the market for their friends to purchase houses/apartments a favorable prices then rent them out back to the next generation who would of been the buyers of the properties returning the Landlords an excellent return on their investment and this will in turn suggest the economy is improving, though in real terms the lives and well being of millions of people will be effected  negatively financially and emotionally. I believe anyone who believes the Conservatives have a mind to build more homes than a bear minimum and certainly anyone who thinks the Conservatives have a mind to lower Rents moving forward will be very disappointed.

 IMO The Conseratives have plans to LOWER HOME OWNERSHIP BY PERCENTAGE OF POPULATION  in the middle to long term and raise rents leaving lower income households with less money to spend on food utilities clothes etc.  

I am a swing voter not a Labour voter.  It did not come easy righting this post but I feel i had no choice the Conservatives ring fencing the Death Home Tax to social car have been very spiteful and have back stabbed millions of home owners in this country.                            

Just take some professional advice and plan ahead.  Transfer of assets to trust or children, before you get towards old age, can be a very effective way of guarding your estate against the perils of care-costs and the associated nastiness.

It's not a brilliant manifesto, at first glance; they've snuck some highly unpopular policies in there because everybody knows that this election will be based on Brexit positions.

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Con manifesto slightly disappointing but social care needs reform so credit for them taking it on. Labour's manifesto in contrast was beyond ridiculous and like something from a student union focus group. 

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I've just heard that social care won't be provided for those with dementia under the Conservatives.

As someone with very elderly next-of-kin with early stage dementia this fills me with absolute dread for the future, as if this illness wasn't horrific enough for all involved already.

I think I'll avoid the rest of the election because it's just all too depressing...

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The only way you can vote in this election is conservatives as the liberals and labour will utterly destroy the country with it brexit plans.

 unfortunately we will still have to ensure three years of conservatives  after brexit negotiations have concluded .

unless we just bin negotiating now ae there doesn't appear to be any common ground between us and the eu  anyway and then we can vote nicely at the election 

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The problem is Labours manifesto, while sounding good, is entirely unfunded and the libdems are going all out on a second EU referendum (which is basically treason at this point isn't it? :P).

There isn't a choice. The Tories know this and they are using this opening to go after the hard targets while they can - pensioners, home owners, pushing through fracking, ect. 

I think the tories will win this one comfortably sadly. I am surprised the NHS isn't up for privatisation with the lead they have. 

On the fracking thing, does anyone know of any solid companies that would benefit? A few different fracking companies who are positioned to take advantage will do, I will need positions before June ideally. If they are going to poison the water table why not get paid while it happens I always say. ;)

Edited by KDave

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Labour promises to reverse the harshest of the benefit cuts, affecting the truly needy. I like that. But I fear their robin hood tax to pay for it will just chase even more businesses away to tax havens, leaving their proposed budget out of balance. Maybe they can pull a Trump, by heavily levying any imports from fleeing businesses and incentivising the ones who stay, with beneficial regulations and schemes like government supported apprenticeships.

The Conservative 'strength through unity' rhetoric is doing my head in now. Some days I think I like Theresa May. Other days Boris makes me facepalm hard. I'm not sure I'm convinced that they have the best platform from which to negotiate Brexit. Things are getting heated now, with hostile comments being made on both sides and threats to leave EU bills unpaid and what-not.

I don't think the Lib-dems have a hope, running on a 2nd referendum platform. My region voted Remain, but I don't think we can ask everyone again.

Ideally, further devolution would somehow allow regions to make their own deals with the EU. Not sure if that has any precedent. Farmers over here were much better off in the EU, I know that much.

 

Personally, voting Labour benefits my situation, with disabled elderly relatives. But voting Conservative may benefit the country as a whole, long term. I'm torn, for the first time.

Edited by Jay2

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I worry where labour will  get it's funding from for its pledges it's spent the same money  from stopping tax evasion about six times over 

Edited by 4Nines7Hills

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Just watching Question Time now; it's utterly depressing.

The Tories are relatively reliable on bringing a stable economy, but their attitude to the sick and needy is horrific.  Taxing people with dementia and shifting the burden onto their families is beneath contempt.

Labour forgot to realise that nationalising the railways, water and energy industries might actually cost money.  They would borrow wrecklessly and worsen the economic outlook.  Their position on immigration will only worsen the demands on the NHS, as well.

The Lib Dems want to overturn democracy, and tax businesses on their turnover and not profit... no more needs be said.

 

What an abolute shower of sh*te.  It's a bloody disgrace - we're the most advanced democracy in the world and we don't even have a centre-ground party to represent middle England.

 

I thought I was 100% Conservative, until today.  Now I don't even know if I can bring myself to vote for them.  But I can't vote Labour, Lib Dem or anyone else... utter bloody rubbish.

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Interesting to read other people's general disillusionment. I have voted SNP all my days however getting hacked off with calls for another referendum and doubt will vote for again. That said, the more the tories deny this right, the more likely it is to actually happen and become a reality. I think if left to make the call for real, Sturgeon would realise there is not a the appetite currently for this up here, we really need to see how Brexit pans out first. 

Looking at main parties they are shite. Interesting to note that although the greens total package is totally aspirational, they do have tsound monetary policy and would withdraw the privilege the private banks have had in creating debt and then deciding who they will favour and encomber said with. A policy which aligns with most people's views here I would think? 

"EC664 A Green Government will therefore develop and implement a programme of banking reform based on the following principles:

a) All national currency (both in cash and electronic form) will be created, free of any associated debt, by a National Monetary Authority (NMA) that is accountable to Parliament;

B) The 1844 Bank Charter Act will be updated to prohibit banks from creating national currency in the form of electronic credit. To finance their lending, investment or proprietary trading activities, banks will have to borrow or raise the necessary national currency from savers and investors;

c) The NMA will be mandated by law to manage the stock of national currency so that it is sufficient to support full employment, while avoiding general inflation in prices, and taking into account the development of local currencies (Ref. paragraph EC678);

d) Any new money created by the NMA will be credited to the account of the Government as additional revenue, to be spent into circulation in the economy in accordance with the budget approved by Parliament;

e) The members of the NMA will be appointed – for fixed terms - by a Select Committee of Parliament;

f) The independence and integrity of the NMA will be assured by law requiring NMA members and staff to be free of any conflict of interest; mandating full transparency of NMA decisions; and prohibiting lobbying or undue influence of NMA members or staff by government, financial institutions, corporations or any other private interest."

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16 hours ago, Pipers said:

I was leaning towards voting Conservative in the General election until today.

 I will go as far to say it is the GREAT TORY BETRAYAL. I am talking about the new proposed Tax on home owners .

  The TORY DEATH (DIEING) TAX.  This is everything that the Conservatives use to be against, a person or a couple work hard all there lives paying all the Taxes and NI that the Government ask for, then they have the rug pulled from under their feet. So the one asset the majority of people in this country have (not the members of this forum) is taxed at a enormous percentage  taking in mind the average price of a home in the UK.

So why are the Conservatives Taxing the working class and lower middle class ( richer than this you can afford instruments to get around the Tax).  They say it is for Social care cost and it is true the money will go towards the costs of social care, though i believe the real reason is more spiteful than that.  IMO the real reason for for Death Tax on home owners is to stop the next generation of surfs/PLEBS from buying properties forcing them into high cost renting releasing properties onto the market for their friends to purchase houses/apartments a favorable prices then rent them out back to the next generation who would of been the buyers of the properties returning the Landlords an excellent return on their investment and this will in turn suggest the economy is improving, though in real terms the lives and well being of millions of people will be effected  negatively financially and emotionally. I believe anyone who believes the Conservatives have a mind to build more homes than a bear minimum and certainly anyone who thinks the Conservatives have a mind to lower Rents moving forward will be very disappointed.

 IMO The Conseratives have plans to LOWER HOME OWNERSHIP BY PERCENTAGE OF POPULATION  in the middle to long term and raise rents leaving lower income households with less money to spend on food utilities clothes etc.  

I am a swing voter not a Labour voter.  It did not come easy righting this post but I feel i had no choice the Conservatives ring fencing the Death Home Tax to social car have been very spiteful and have back stabbed millions of home owners in this country.                            

You are a paranoid soul aren't you? What's wrong with people having to contribute to their old age care with wealth accumulated over their lives? The full cost of care for everyone is unaffordable in this day and age by any modern society. We are all living too long and it will get worse (or better if you look at it from the opposite perspective).

As to the Tories being the friends of buy-to-let homes owners, who's done the most to make this business unattractive in the last few years?

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13 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

You are a paranoid soul aren't you? What's wrong with people having to contribute to their old age care with wealth accumulated over their lives? The full cost of care for everyone is unaffordable in this day and age by any modern society. We are all living too long and it will get worse (or better if you look at it from the opposite perspective).

As to the Tories being the friends of buy-to-let homes owners, who's done the most to make this business unattractive in the last few years?

Paranoid? NO!! 

I am of the opinion you have fallen for spin that has been rolled out over the last few months.  Let me state this quite clearly.  Here i go :-  In 1979 Margret Thatcher got in power and the best thing she did was to enable the poor, working class and lower middle class to buy a house!  The Conservatives were the Party that promised that a modest home asset would not to counted as part of any future treasury grab (taxation). This Promise reassured most of the said classes to go out and buy there small homes, work hard, save in the knowledge that they could leave the home to their children.  

That said now we come to social care First we need to ask what is Social care?

Social Care is nearly all care that is done at home except a very few things.  Dementia, the disabled,Stroke, heart attack, Cancer care, all come under social care and will do so we will see a family homeless when either a mother or father dies of a stroke or Cancer or heart problems etc because unlike the TV most people death is not so fast but drawn out!    

.  Social care has now been removed from general National Insurance and Taxation for people who own there homes. The Tories have been very spiteful in the way they have put this forward, I will give you an example of the way they are trying to fund it, it would be the same as saying everyone who walks on the road because there is no pavement you pay £0.00 walk on a pavement you have to pay £50 and if you walk on the cracks you have to pay £100 and if you had Asphalt put outside your house 20 years ago you pay £1000 per year, as you can see its retrospective. while if chose to party and blow your money you will be looked after. Also if your home is set back from the road by more than 20 metres  and is large it is exempt.  Not so fair now is it.

Social Care should be part of general Taxation/NI and has been, the fact is all Governments since 1979 have not Taxed the country enough and have spent to much plunging the country into debt.  It is a joke for the Tories to now call themselves the Party of low Taxation when all they have done is spent and not funded for years. Osborne has doubled the debt in 6 years.

Instead our country should of had a wealth fund set aside, with a Tax that is ring fenced for the fund the fund can not be touch for 40 years it must be invested in low risk investments eg Gold Bonds Equities.   

 

          

Edited by Pipers

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In case anyone is new to all this and wants to see the main candidates' manifestos, here are their election pitches:

Labourhttps://www.c-span.org/video/?428566-1/british-labour-party-leader-jeremy-corbyn-unveils-election-manifesto

Conservativehttps://www.c-span.org/video/?428728-1/british-prime-minister-theresa-may-unveils-conservative-party-manifesto

Lib Demhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6RlsnLy5i0

I'd only seen bits of these edited into news cycles, with the usual bias. Thanks to C-SPAN the unedited speeches are available.

 

If anyone knows of a full Green election speech, please share. I can only find this resource:

Greenshttps://www.greenparty.org.uk/green-party-manifesto.html

 

 

 

Edited by Jay2

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The tax is not a land grab by the government because the government are not buying the land. In many cases they are forcing the sale of a house yes, but they do not benefit from the sale. 

This is simply an offloading of the liability of expensive social care from the books of the government onto the rest of society, which is distributed according to who is wealthy enough and unlucky enough to get an illness that requires the need for care.

The result is a continuation of the wealth transfer from the unlucky to the care home providers, rather than from the taxpayer to the care home providers. Nothing changes other than who bears the cost. Honestly given the way things are going the prediction that there will be no pension when I get there is looking very likely. I am planning for it. 

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5 hours ago, Pipers said:

Instead our country should of had a wealth fund set aside, with a Tax that is ring fenced for the fund the fund can not be touch for 40 years it must be invested in low risk investments eg Gold Bonds Equities.  

Well we haven't so get over it, we are where we are. Successive goverments of all colours have ignored this issue for years. We as an electorate are as culpable as the smarmy, selfish politicians. We get the leaders we deserve.

The simple fact is the country cannot afford universal, free social care, the demographics are against it. We are expecting our children and grandchildren to pay for enough without adding to it.

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That's all very well so when you next pay your car tax that doesn't pay for the roads just remember they will do the same with your house in a few years when the treasury gets there hands on it, then you cansay to yourself get over it!!!!  I reckon suicides will go up as people will not want to be a burden on their families!!!

The Conservative manifesto is there worst one I can ever remember it is basically a power grab for wealth and privileged.  The only people who will not see it are the true blue voters who vote Tory every time and the BBC watchers . 

I have had a letter through the post every day for the last week from the Conservative party and every one states Strong and stable Government, also states In the National interest. The first quote does not say anything as it suggests the current government is not, the second means something different than most people think, it means what business interest and Government want not what the the people want!  I got that from Adam Smith. 

All in all I know most on this forum are true blue, I do not attach myself to any of the lying b_stards MPs that is and i vote each time that suits me best, over the years I have come to realise that it is a waste of time trying to convince true reds or true blue to change, I just feel extremely sorry for those of you who walk into a booth and put a cross next to a name just because of a colour. I am one of the 1 few of the  100000s that really does have a say in most general elections who gets elected. 

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Another reason to have no paper trail assets! The rules can change Govt to Govt so a vote today doesn't mean the legislation will be there under a future Govt. Pension rules vary Govt to Govt. I'm and ex-IFA and PMs were totally bypassed in my high level Diploma course. I have pensions in the past from ex-employers but would never start my own. I'm even considering a transfer into the Royal Mints pension!!!

One of my YouTube videos mentions the Hungarian Govt taking everyone's private pensions and putting them into the state pot for everyone in the country whether they saved or not in the past. Don't trust or rely on any Govt. 

The Govt will also persue the Cashless society so bankers can charge us interest in the future and the Govt can track every transactio and tax it on the way out and on the way in.

PMs are a great way to pass on the wealth to the next generation and avoid them losing the family home. I'll be selling up when I get to a certain age and "rent" and I'll have no paper assets. 

Just don't forget to tell the kids where you buried it ;-) 

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