Questions about tubes of Britannias/silver storage

[kimchi]

Hi folks!

Apologies if any of the answers to my questions are already out there - I have searched the forum and read an awful lot, and also watched tons of Youtube vids, but haven't found anything so far.

Before I found this site and found out about VAT free silver from trusted European dealers I used Bullion By Post, amongst others in the UK. My last order from them was some tubes of Brittanias. They arrived with one tube's lid off and at least one badly scratched coin. Quite a few others were really badly minted with raised spots on the Queen's face (perhaps not a surprise given all I've read on here about the RM, but I've had lots of Brits before and nothing like this).

I spoke to them the next day and was basically told 'tough luck, they're bullion coins so we'll buy them back at the same prices regardless'. I thought that was pretty poor, because although I chose 'best value, mixed years' I don't think it's up to them to decide that condition doesn't matter to me, and they were advertised as new, uncirculated. If I didn't mind scratched and blatantly imperfectly struck coins I could have just gone with the B grade, which many of these are imo, at a cheaper price.

Anyway! Going forward I have a few questions, and I'd be very grateful for any advice:

1) I'd still like to keep them as nice as possible. Bullion By Post padded the gap at the top of the tubes with bubble wrap, but I guess I don't want to keep them like that? If so, what do folk use to cushion their Brits (or other shinies) in the space in the tube?

2) I have gel dessicant packs and anti-tarnish strips but again I guess the coins should not be kept in direct contact with either of these?

3) I also have some Metalor silver bars from BBP. I've just kept them in the boxes and bubble wrap they were delivered in (more fool me?), but looking at one it's already in a terrible state in terms of discolouration and what looks like huge milk spots all over (which I didn't think you get with bars). I'll get some Ziplocks asap, but again how to store them with anti-tarnish strips and dessicant packs without them touching (I know bars don't matter anywhere nearly as much as coins but still...). Tissue paper?

Many thanks in advance for any and all advice

 

 

[sixgun]

Are the coin tubes not full if there is room for bubble wrap?

Some people pay more for bars with toning. i have heard of people who leave them out to encourage it.

[kimchi]

17 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Are the coin tubes not full if there is room for bubble wrap?

Some people pay more for bars with toning. i have heard of people who leave them out to encourage it.

I have tubes of 25 Brittanias from two different dealers. The round corners at the edges that go up almost all of the tube to keep the coins in place fall short of the lid by 6 or 7mm.

[Pampfan]

In the case of tubes with room - I just add more of the same coin in to fill it up.  For example - I have a American silver eagle roll of 20 - they are loose in the tube and rattle a lot when I move them. Add another silver eagle to the tube - all is nice and snug - no more rattling.

Had to do the same with the queens beast rolls.  Royal mint sent them out in a brittania roll holder=holds 26 coins, solution, I added three more beast coins- no more rattle or need for bubble wrap. 

Hope this helps

 

 

 

[kimchi]

On 05/05/2017 at 18:38, sixgun said:

Are the coin tubes not full if there is room for bubble wrap?

Some people pay more for bars with toning. i have heard of people who leave them out to encourage it.

Sorry @sixgun I missed your point about nice toning on bars, many thanks that's great info for me as a newcomer! Alas I've just checked 4/5 Metalor bars and while there is the start of some nice toning on one, they all suffer from absolutely horrible unsightly blotchy milking. I know it's simple bullion but it's my first time to see silver milking and I can't imagine it gets much worse than this. I don't know if keeping them in bubble wrap has made things worse or not (?) but I'm going to just put these back into storage and not think about it anymore as I'm quite disappointed.

Right time to check through the Brits and see if @Pampfan's very good suggestion works for me on those tubes. Again something I'm not really looking forward to, as the first two tubes I checked had one horrible scratch and lots (~20% perhaps) of very badly cast coins. I'm still annoyed by Bullion By Post's response to that when I phoned them the day after delivery. I'm sure they sent me their B-grade coins although I paid the premium for new (mixed years), and I've loads of other Brits from other places without a problem like this ever. We shall see!

[kimchi]

@Pampfan your tip about adding in extra coins worked out great! With the Britannia tubes (25 coins) if you add just one extra they are pretty much movement free.

Alas an even worse result than I thought looking at two tubes of coins just by glancing my eye over them

Both tubes are 2017 Brits, bought fairly recently from Bullion By Post (while I was still uninformed and didn't know about coins from Europe without VAT, so that's my mistake).

Tube one: 5 scratched, 1 terribly milk spotted already, the other 19 all badly struck with disappointing imperfections.

Tube two: 7 scratched, 2 milks (not as bad but on their way), the other 16 badly struck.

The scratched and the badly minted are not exclusive, this was just a cursory glance to identify the main problems with each coin.

I don't really need to further ruin my Sunday by checking the other two tubes of 2017, do I? I know they're bullion, but I think this is poor when I paid a premium over grade B, which I think all these are. I'll be on the phone to have a moan, and to be fair apart from the idiot I last spoke to the day after these arrived Bullion By Post have been good to me and their advisers generally friendly and professional.

Again, I have tubes and individual coins of these from elsewhere with no worries so far but these 2017s from Bullion By Post are a horrendous result for me. No problem at all with the 2017 anniversarys from STG. No major problem to a simple eye test so far with any other years from anywhere else (though I expect milking will pop up on some of them - but a month or two after I receive a coin I do not expect).

Yours,

Grumpy kimchi

 

[silverdreamracer]

Yeah, I feel your pain.. I'm new to the game of Silver stacking. If I got your order, I would be fuming!

[Pampfan]

@kimchiGlad I was able to help you.  Just don't forget when you go to sell that you have an extra coin in the tube.  

[Pete]

I prefer to remove any form of packaging that is shipped inside the tube.
I have seen a piece of bubble wrap but more often a polystyrene packing bean.
Over time ( years ) I am concerned that any degradation of the packing material or leaching of chemicals, which does happen with many products, will discolour the top coin or the rims of those below. Because I stack the tubes and they will not be shaken I don't worry about movement.

The Royal mint has a real problem with quality since it moved to fine silver away from Britannia silver which was much more durable.
Most of the raised profile like Her Majesty's cheek tends to be scuffed.
In my observations this is NOT caused by rattling around tin the tube because I have bought plastic sheets with coins individually placed in a plastic cell and these are scuffed.
This suggests all the damage is happening at the Mint before the coins even see a tube.

I can understand the response of BbP but you do seem unlucky in getting so many poor coins.
Unfortunately that can happen with bullion and I had a new tube of Maples in really poor condition with the same attitude from the UK seller that I subsequently chose not to purchase from in future.

As for wrapping bars ( or coins ) you need to ensure you are using paper or plastic wrap that will not chemically attack or discolour your silver over time.
I do not know the names of appropriate wrapping but never assume what you are using is good until you check. I just took delivery of some 20+ year old American Eagles inside square coin flips that were brown and oily looking. The coins were black in places and I had no choice but to dip them in e-Z-est. To me it looks as if the coin flips were to blame.

Silica gel is used solely for moisture control and will not protect against chemicals, oils & grease from fingers or gases ( smoke & pollution ) that will discolour silver.

[kimchi]

@Pete Thank you so much for your very comprehensive and detailed reply, I'm incredibly grateful.

Yes, most are raised scuffs (I thought they were minitng errors perhaps) on the queen's cheek and other highest raised areas, though there are common scratches in lower areas that really surprised me. The other most obvious problem is a conspicuous spot about 1/3 of the way towards 9:30 on the radial design on the reverse. But the number of scratches to me seems crazy poor QA by someone.

My tubes of 2015 and 2016 from elsewhere are fine, was the shift away from fine silver you mention for these 2017? I have other capsuled 2017s and those all look fine (though I guess it'd take some cheek to send out such shoddy coins in capsules), and the anniversarys do as well. It just seems to be this batch for so far

 

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, kimchi said:

@Pete Thank you so much for your very comprehensive and detailed reply, I'm incredibly grateful.

Yes, most are raised scuffs (I thought they were minitng errors perhaps) on the queen's cheek and other highest raised areas, though there are common scratches in lower areas that really surprised me. The other most obvious problem is a conspicuous spot about 1/3 of the way towards 9:30 on the radial design on the reverse. But the number of scratches to me seems crazy poor QA by someone.

My tubes of 2015 and 2016 from elsewhere are fine, was the shift away from fine silver you mention for these 2017? I have other capsuled 2017s and those all look fine (though I guess it'd take some cheek to send out such shoddy coins in capsules), and the anniversarys do as well. It just seems to be this batch for so far

 

The Royal Mint decided ( poor decision !! ) to make its silver Brits in 999 silver rather than its traditional 958 silver starting in 2013.
The Brits were super coins up to 2012 and very well respected all over the world and were attracting nice premiums.
However for some crazy decision they moved away from their hard alloy to a soft fine silver and started shipping some of the worst minted crap coins ever seen in 2013.
After several months the quality shipped out improved but a very high percentage still showed scuffs, dings, reeded dings and fine scratches.
The more recent coins have even moved away from the brightly polished backgrounds because I assume they were getting so many complaints.
It is pretty frustrating buying uncirculated brand new coins and seeing so many defects that you do not get on many other coins from other mints and they too are fine silver !
Doesn't do our RM any favours as they can and do produce stunning coins but unfortunately not in the bullion area.

[kimchi]

Thank you so much again @Pete, you have been incredibly helpful and taught me a lot.

In this case I think I clearly need to contact the vendor again, speak to a different person, and see what they say. They have always been really good to me in the past so it's just this one duff batch so far. Fingers crossed!