Bullion, and collecting... buying raw

[ThoseBackPages]

How long after a release are you comfortable buying raw coins from one of the "popular" online dealers?

Using the Lion Beast for example, what are the odds that now what they have in stock is not full of spots/scuffs/toning etc?

im not talking so much as "well, i expect a perfect coin", but something acceptable

[Pampfan]

In the USA, from what I have seen is that if the coin is within a year - they should all be new stock.  After that you will need to go by the description of the company selling the coins - If they say they are in Brilliant Uncirculated condition - they should be ok - But if they say they are circulated - then they will have problems.

 

 

[HelpingHands]

I don't really think about that as I don't get modern bullion with the intention of grading.

However, if you buy from one of the large dealers who send their coins for grading I imagine that the chaff to wheat ratio would increase as time went on.

[ThoseBackPages]

51 minutes ago, Pampfan said:

In the USA, from what I have seen is that if the coin is within a year - they should all be new stock.  After that you will need to go by the description of the company selling the coins - If they say they are in Brilliant Uncirculated condition - they should be ok - But if they say they are circulated - then they will have problems.

 

Excellent, thank you!

 

[ThoseBackPages]

51 minutes ago, HelpingHands said:

I don't really think about that as I don't get modern bullion with the intention of grading.

However, if you buy from one of the large dealers who send their coins for grading I imagine that the chaff to wheat ratio would increase as time went on.

Sure, i get the "no intent of grading" part, but you're "ok" with spotting toning (not mentioned in the listing) when it arrives that way? 

[HelpingHands]

No I'd rather the coins arrived perfect but I'm happy with ugly as long as it's cheap.

Maybe buying the coin early is more of a gamble as they could milk in my possession. 

[ThoseBackPages]

3 minutes ago, HelpingHands said:

No I'd rather the coins arrived perfect but I'm happy with ugly as long as it's cheap.

Maybe buying the coin early is more of a gamble as they could milk in my possession. 

Yes, defects leading to saving on price is ALWAYS good LOL

and that is a great point about buying early.   Always food for thought.  Love learning! 

[HelpingHands]

Back dating can be expensive though.  I think most people buy multiples on release and hope for the best.

Certain coins have a good record of quality such as Perth Mint coins and Chinese Pandas.

[ThoseBackPages]

4 minutes ago, HelpingHands said:

Back dating can be expensive though.  I think most people buy multiples on release and hope for the best.

Certain coins have a good record of quality such as Perth Mint coins and Chinese Pandas.

i am CERTAINLY learning this, and quickly! 

in my other hobbies, the most important thing is FOCUS FOCUS FOCUS! 

ive been trying to apply that to these here coins, and man is it TOUGH! 

Should i collect Pandas? -- well, there are a lot, stretching back to 1982, and they sure do make a LOT of them.  also, how "shaky" is the Chinese Mint to future "collectors"?

Should i collect Kookaburras? -- to be honest, before getting into coins, i don't think i ever knew what a Kook was. will this be a deterrent for future "collectors"?

Should i collect Koalas? -- These are intriguing to me, as they are relatively new (2007), have a "low" mintage (which is not TOO low to draw in future newbies).

Should i collect ASEs?  Na, they are the same year after year.  i know there are variations, but eh.

Should i collect Kangaroos? This is one that i thought of originally (who DOESNT associate them with The Land Down Unda?), but then learned they are like ASEs

Should i collect Lunars?  They look great, change annually, but they are PRICEY going backwards.  

See what im talking about? LOL

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Last week i won an assortment of 2017 PCGS 69 stuff.   they are do in the mail tomorrow.  i am hoping that seeing them in person may help me choose one (or two! lol)

[Jester]

Here's just another idea...all the series you mentioned are modern coins, all bullion I believe. I think I've decided to focus on pre-1933 American coins while still picking up a few of the new releases along the way. For me, this takes a lot of the guess work out of what you're spending your hard-earned money on.

Just for example, the new Perth Mint Silver Swan. A beautiful coin to be sure. Will it yield high premiums in the future? Is it the FotM (flavor of the month)? It's anyone's guess. Contrast that against pre-1933 silver dollars (Morgan and Peace are what I'm focusing on). These coins have already stood the test of time, already shown to be sought after by collectors over the decades and have yielded good returns (btw, you could plug in many coins into this example doesn't have to be American silver dollars).

You definitely still have to do your homework so you know what you're buying but there's less speculation. You still get to hunt, you still get to collect. And...you can actually do homework! I bought a Whitman Red Book devoted just to Peace Dollars.

With new modern releases, it's as @HelpingHands said, "most people buy multiples on release and hope for the best."  You could, if so inclined, take that same $150-$200 you were going to spend on five or six new releases and buy one nice graded Morgan or Peace dollar (again, just for example).

Food for thought. Good luck in whatever path you choose to pursue!

[ThoseBackPages]

On 4/17/2017 at 00:01, Jester said:

Here's just another idea...all the series you mentioned are modern coins, all bullion I believe. I think I've decided to focus on pre-1933 American coins while still picking up a few of the new releases along the way. For me, this takes a lot of the guess work out of what you're spending your hard-earned money on.

Just for example, the new Perth Mint Silver Swan. A beautiful coin to be sure. Will it yield high premiums in the future? Is it the FotM (flavor of the month)? It's anyone's guess. Contrast that against pre-1933 silver dollars (Morgan and Peace are what I'm focusing on). These coins have already stood the test of time, already shown to be sought after by collectors over the decades and have yielded good returns (btw, you could plug in many coins into this example doesn't have to be American silver dollars).

You definitely still have to do your homework so you know what you're buying but there's less speculation. You still get to hunt, you still get to collect. And...you can actually do homework! I bought a Whitman Red Book devoted just to Peace Dollars.

With new modern releases, it's as @HelpingHands said, "most people buy multiples on release and hope for the best."  You could, if so inclined, take that same $150-$200 you were going to spend on five or six new releases and buy one nice graded Morgan or Peace dollar (again, just for example).

Food for thought. Good luck in whatever path you choose to pursue!

Yea man, im not going to lie, this is difficult.   ive spent a lot of time thinking about it.   i just cant seem to settle on anything.  

[ThoseBackPages]

i got in the queens beasts MS69s that i won.  they look nice, but didnt OMGWOW me, ya know?  i wonder if the 1oz (yes, i know the beasts are 2oz's) size is just "too small" for me.    i also got in the assortment of MS69 2017 stuff that i mentioned earlier.  

Then i got to looking at the 10oz Perth stuff.  Sure the price point is great, but they dont seem to see much "action".

i appreciate having this place to talk about these things.  

[ThoseBackPages]

i cannot get over the asking prices on all the series two 1oz Lunars.  even the roosters are over $30 

[Jester]

Here's a suggestion...if you've got a little coin to spend but you're not sure where to place your bet to give you the best return, check eBay for a 2014 5 oz Silver Libertad Proof.  There's a known German dealer who has a few for sale.  They have the "Make Offer" option which I did and got it at a lower price.  Only 800 of the 5 oz proofs were minted so that'll be one to pick up and hold on to.  The 2014 2 oz Silver Libertad Proof as well if you can find one (only 750 were minted that year).  They're beautiful coins so you can appreciate having them in your collection also knowing when/if you want to sell, you're going to make money.

[Pete]

On 17/04/2017 at 03:42, ThoseBackPages said:

 

Should i collect Kangaroos? This is one that i thought of originally (who DOESNT associate them with The Land Down Unda?), but then learned they are like ASE

Not quite correct !
The REAL Kangaroos are produced by the Royal Australian Mint ( RAM ) and every Kangaroo issued starting with 1993 has a totally different image.
I like this series and have been trying to build a complete run but getting 2007, 2008 and 2009 can be a challenge unless you have deep pockets.
They also issue the coin on a blister card.

Check out the 2016 coin and the 2017 carded coin pictured below -

 

             

 

 

[ThoseBackPages]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Not quite correct !
The REAL Kangaroos are produced by the Royal Australian Mint ( RAM ) and every Kangaroo issued starting with 1993 has a totally different image.
I like this series and have been trying to build a complete run but getting 2007, 2008 and 2009 can be a challenge unless you have deep pockets.
They also issue the coin on a blister card.

Check out the 2016 coin and the 2017 carded coin pictured below -

 

             

 

 

MY GOODNESS!!! those are BEAUTIFUL!   

[Pete]

1 minute ago, ThoseBackPages said:

MY GOODNESS!!! those are BEAUTIFUL!   

Agreed that's why I am always looking for bargains and adding to my collection.
The best place to see the series is here - https://www.heubach-edelmetalle.de/catalog/silbermuenzen-kangaroo

APMEX also shows a fair selection of images for these "Roos"

[ThoseBackPages]

Just now, Pete said:

Agreed that's why I am always looking for bargains and adding to my collection.
The best place to see the series is here - https://www.heubach-edelmetalle.de/catalog/silbermuenzen-kangaroo

APMEX also shows a fair selection of images for these "Roos"

and you're right, they ARE pricey for 1oz coins 

but wow the detail looks fantastic.   how are the annual mintages on these? do they let the presses run? 

[Pete]

Mintages from Wikipedia

Kangaroo 2016 — 20,000
Kangaroo 2015 — 20,000
Kangaroo 2014 — 20,000
Kangaroo 2013 — 20,000
Kangaroo 2012 — 20,000
Kangaroo 2011 — 20,000
Kangaroo 2010 — 20,000
Kangaroo 2009 — 20,000
Kangaroo 2008 — 6,802
Kangaroo 2007 — 8,598
Kangaroo 2006 — 25,535
Kangaroo 2005 — 26,146
Kangaroo 2004 — 55,057
Kangaroo 2003 — 35,230
Kangaroo 2002 — 32,376
Kangaroo 2001 — 45,562
Kangaroo 2000 — 42,638
Kangaroo 1999 — 49,398
Kangaroo 1998 — 49,398
Kangaroo 1997 — 72,850
Kangaroo 1996 — 49,398
Kangaroo 1995 — 72,850 + Coin Fair — 2,500
Kangaroo 1994 — 44,996 + Coin Fair — 2,500
Kangaroo 1993 — 72,853 + Coin Fair — 5,000^[2]

[ThoseBackPages]

WHOA!!! yea.... TINY!