PCGS vs NGC

[ThoseBackPages]

NGC or PCGS? Which and Why?

since i am just starting my coin journey, i am trying to decide on which company to settle on (NGC or PCGS) or both?

i am speaking about modern silver /gold coins (spare me your "that is drek" comments  not so much as for "value" purposes, but for aesthetics and costs in general when buying on eBay and such. 

Thank you so much for your time,
Eric

[Jester]

As a noob myself, I've decided to stay primarily with NGC if I'm submitting them or working with @Numistacker when he does a forum group submission to NGC.  They have a reasonable entry level membership fee and I do like the variety they offer in their presentations.  If I'm buying a coin already slabbed, I'd have no qualms about buy PCGS or NGC or ANACS for that matter.  If I'm working on a series though, I'd prefer to keep it with the same company just for aesthetics.  I hope that helps and good luck as you begin your journey! 

[ShaolinStacker]

Honestly its just preference. Some series are worth more graded by NGC other by PCGS. Most of the graders in the industry have worked for both companies at some point, and both offer crossover grading for most coins from each other. I prefer NGC slabs, and pretty much everything about NGC. For old American Gold coins. There is no question PCGS is considered the top in the industry. As most of the real rarities and large hoards of the past have been put in PCGS slabs for auctions.

[ShaolinStacker]

3 minutes ago, Jester said:

As a noob myself, I've decided to stay primarily with NGC if I'm submitting them or working with @Numistacker when he does a forum group submission to NGC.  They have a reasonable entry level membership fee and I do like the variety they offer in their presentations.  If I'm buying a coin already slabbed, I'd have no qualms about buy PCGS or NGC or ANACS for that matter.  If I'm working on a series though, I'd prefer to keep it with the same company just for aesthetics.  I hope that helps and good luck as you begin your journey! 

@Jester don't buy ANACS slabs(if there is any sort of high premium). I have sent multiple coins for regrade @ NGC from ANACs. All MS70 came back MS68

[Scuzzle]

Am I alone in thinking this or are both NGC and PGCS starting to take the p!ss with all the different labels they offer now, I have a few series I am trying to complete but getting the labels to match up is proving a challenge.  And the more they diversify the different labels the more I lose respect for them as it just makes them look more profit orientated.

[Silverstackeruk]

I thought the label was upto the customer to decide?

[ShaolinStacker]

That's why it's best to scout your own coins and get the label of your choice. Large companies get to make exclusive labels not available to the general public. 

[Guest]

I used to think NGC went easy on grading when I started but I now think NGC are very accurate.

I think graded coins rightly carry a large premium especially older coins. It's starting to be the case that more raw coins that are non graded are problem coins.

[Guest]

Labels are up to the customer but labels such as first strike and even early release are just a con so the submitter will spend extra dollars. There is no way in telling if a coin is a 1st strike or not, it's purely down to who submits them first and there will be only so many allowed, most of these generally are taken up by the big corporate bulldogs and even they don't get MS70s as we've just seen.
Some people like NGC others like PCGS, it's a matter of choice but i'd never slab silver bullion. I doubt many here would have slabbed at all had [mention=378]Numistacker[/mention] not been offering people to use his help.
Older coins aren't problem coins [mention=378]Numistacker[/mention] it's the people who buy them and are mis-informed or don't know how to determine if it's cleaned/scratched and the likes, not many will take a loupe out and check it plus some people buy problem coins knowingly [emoji6] Yourself included

It is very clear I am not alone in making errors. There are more problem coins than non problem coins around and most dealers ungraded coins have a fair few problems. It seems more about the inability over auction sites like eBay to expose problem coins, our desire for a bargain when we buy coins etc

We want to get something cheap and add value to it and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Having graded hundreds of coins for our esteemed members I have seen...

Surface Scratches
Removed from Jewelry
Filled
Scratched
Environmental
Polished
Cleaned
Spot repaired

Many of these coins were bought in good faith from those in the uk numismatic trade, auctions, eBay etc by knowledgeable experience collectors.

The uk coin trade is against slabbing for one reason only and that is that it reduces the opportunity for fraud.

[Guest]

Ermmmmmm no, sorry but i believe you are completely wrong there, not everyone out there likes slabs, and believe it or not there has been many great collections before slabbing companies came along. A lot people actually like to hold a bit of history in their hands, to feel who had possibly held onto that coin previously, slabbing only started in 1989, collections have been going around since the 1800s and before, sorry but your comment is ridiculous to say the least

We will have to agree to differ on this. But to call my comment ridiculous is just simply offensive and rude.

[Guest]

And calling the UK coin trade fraudsters because they don't slab isn't? Come on numi, pot calling the kettle there

Let me get this straight as well as being rude and offensive to me, you also think it is now OK to call me a fraudster?

My comments about the UK coin trade was general, but does come from discussions with members of the UK coin trade who believe that they are above such practices and who understand grading has a useful place.

[Ravinella]

Golden rule of slabbing.................Buy the coin not the slab..................eg.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-British-Elizabeth-II-St-George-Gold-Full-Sovereign-Coin-PCGS-MS69/181724081847?_trksid=p2045573.c100507.m3226&_trkparms=aid%3D555014%26algo%3DPL.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151016114640%26meid%3D04534cef02854eb894599e744367c538%26pid%3D100507%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Golden rule of slabbing.................Buy the coin not the slab..................eg.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-British-Elizabeth-II-St-George-Gold-Full-Sovereign-Coin-PCGS-MS69/181724081847?_trksid=p2045573.c100507.m3226&_trkparms=aid%3D555014%26algo%3DPL.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151016114640%26meid%3D04534cef02854eb894599e744367c538%26pid%3D100507%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26
 
 
 
 

That one proves a very different rule. But from reputable sellers. I am sure you know that's a joke listing ...

[ThoseBackPages]

oh my fellas,  i did not intend this to cause a ruckus! 

i was just trying to get different opinions on which slab you guys prefer

as a life long collector (Cards and Comics) i am well versed in "raw" vs "graded".   i personally am more pleased with collecting graded items.  ALL companies make mistakes, it's human nature. 

i have one coin shop near me, and they have plenty of raw coins.  

again, i know that bullion is considered fodder by most folks in collecting communities, i get it.  but i will collect as i like

if i can buy a MS69 for just a few bucks more then it's raw equivalent, i am happy to do so.  Not only does the slab provide safe travels as the coin is sent to me, i also do not have to buy a proper holder for it, which also cuts down on costs. 

 

[ThoseBackPages]

12 hours ago, Jester said:

As a noob myself, I've decided to stay primarily with NGC if I'm submitting them or working with @Numistacker when he does a forum group submission to NGC.  They have a reasonable entry level membership fee and I do like the variety they offer in their presentations.  If I'm buying a coin already slabbed, I'd have no qualms about buy PCGS or NGC or ANACS for that matter.  If I'm working on a series though, I'd prefer to keep it with the same company just for aesthetics.  I hope that helps and good luck as you begin your journey! 

i TOTALLY understand about having the same "flow" going.  it SEEMS that there are more NGC listings on eBay then PCGS (talking about modern stuff)

[Jester]

I enjoy buying slabbed and graded coins.  I'd rather have them in my collection personally.  Take the Queen's Beasts series for example.  I think most, I know not all, would agree...AMAZING series for the RM.  I also think most would agree the quality of these coins is "hit and miss" (and that may be a generous statement).  I really love this series and so I want to own the best examples of each of the coins I decide to buy.  Slabbing/grading makes that as close to reality as you can get.

I also think it helps with resale value (at least here in the US).  Can you see the eBay titles now...first the raw coin "2017 1 oz Queen's Beasts Lion of England Proof in PERFECT, PRISTINE condition" or the slabbed/graded coin "2017 1 oz Queen's Beasts Lion of England Proof NGC PF70".  Which do you think most buyers will gravitate to first?  

Are the graders who work at NGC and PCGS all-knowing, coin grading gods?  No but they sure have infinitely more experience grading a coin than I (and probably a good number of forum members as well). Ultimately, to each their own.  It's good as a community that we have collectors/stackers that prefer one or the other or both.

[SilverTanner]

Years ago I would never have bought a slabbed coin however as my collection grew it became very apparent that the different dealers and different auction houses all the way across the UK, whether big or small, all had different opinions on what each grade was - no surprise there as grading is 'an opinion' it is just that TPG tends to be a combined opinion of several people rather than maybe just one. However if the coin was found to be 'not as described', such as plugged, cleaned, heavy scratches, lacquered, odd toning/spots, or clearly the wrong grade etc etc then I have never had a problem returning it.

'Surface hairlines', unless really obvious, seems to be the one thing older raw coins never seem to be considered for, yet for TPG this seems to be an issue - given most older coins have been in circulation at some point I would expect many more with this designation as a result of being wiped, in pockets, purses etc but this may just reflect that the number graded for these types has traditionally been very low and mainly restricted to the best-of-the-best.

I have found that the lower grades are very consistent however the higher grades EF to UNC varied dramatically between places and were not even consistent from just one source with this variation reflected in the large AU55 to MS65 range used. Where some dealers specialise in certain things e.g. pennies, sovereigns, they tended to be much more accurate and consistent but less so with denominations they were less familiar with. In the case of TPG these are mainly US based and as such also have less experience with world coins, although this is rapidly growing, and it is therefore not surprising that they vary more than for US coinage (some variation there too!). My personal experience is the variation across Europe is even greater as the locally accepted definition of EF in one country means something completely different in another - after all these years I think I now have a reasonable grasp of the German, French, Italian and Spanish systems

Most of the coins I have sent with Numi for grading (many thanks Numi as you prompted me to do it!) I have had for between 10 and 20 years and deliberately covered a range of dealers and auctions and were all classed as UNC, unless an obvious F/VF, yet have so far come back with grades from AU58 to MS63 which was no suprise at all which is why I started buying slabbed coins several years ago and a bit like the gamble of MS69/MS70 for the new coins there doesn't seem to be much in it for AU58/MS61 and then MS62/63 together whereas MS64 does stand out a little and MS65 or better really stands out as a quality coin.

As I see it the coin market has now been made easy, and global, with the web and it is not always possible to see each coin before purchase and NGC/PCGS slabs just give the buyer, and the auction house if selling that way, more confidence on what the approximate condition and hence value of a coin is. When I come to sell my collection, in hopefully 15-20 years, this will most likely be through the major UK, US and Europe auction houses where I expect top grades will still carry a hefty premium - I fortunately have some of the top graded coins for some types. Slabbed coins are becoming more acceptable in the UK with Baldwins-St James Auctions noticeabley having many graded coins in each sale over the last few years and with them also creeping into the other auctions, the vast majority of my purchases over the last few years have been from overseas as the coins I am interested in just don't seem to be available much in the UK anymore and the only time I will buy a high grade older raw coin now is if I have seen it or its rarity means that the label on the slab doesn't really matter!

ST

 

[PolarPanda]

Is there a European shop who offers slabbed coins like the Queen Beasts? My search now ended every single time in the US. That's not a problem, but the shipping costs are not rarely huge. Ebay also sents me to the US... 

[PolarPanda]

1 hour ago, shortstack68 said:

No, because most see these as just bullion, which they are, they won't go out of their way to slab coins

I already thought something like that. Thx! 

[ShaolinStacker]

7 hours ago, PolarPanda said:

I already thought something like that. Thx! 

I have a Few MS69 Dragons in the with the same label as above if interested