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silver coin fogging


craig12

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got some coins that seem to have a slight fogging / dull finish on the surface of the coin near the edge,  will it clean up to the coins mint finish or is this permanent  and caused by  handling/ or being in capsule

probably more noticeable on the philharmonics

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If coins are kept at cold temperature and then introduced to a warm environment then you can sometimes see slight condensation on the capsule. This is because silver is cold and the room is warm. Like how your car windows steam up when it's hot inside the car and cold outside. Is this what you are talking about?

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I believe this is what you're talking about, I have no idea why this has happened I had them stored with Britannias and eagles and these were the only coins to have this.

They arrived in a plastic sleeves and I put them in capsules, I did go away over the winter and left the heating off in the house, maybe this caused condensation and resulted in the milking...

 

One thing I've learnt is when I want to add some weight to my stack from now on it'll be Britannias.

 

 

post-135-0-97726200-1404063609_thumb.jpg

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Blimey Garth, that's pretty bad.

Only thing I can think of is the sleeves contained PVC which has reacted with the silver.

 

Yeah maybe Dan, my britannias and eagles arrived in tubes and stayed in tubes so maybe it was the sleeves, at least it's only happened to my 5 phillys.    

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Garthy, that is a form of milk spots.

 

I put most of my silver in coinarmour bags to actively reduce milk spots and tarnishing as much as possible. But unfortunately I have some coins that are kept in a lighthouse case and a coin from there has a similar milking to what your cons have.

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Garthy, that is a form of milk spots.

 

I put most of my silver in coinarmour bags to actively reduce milk spots and tarnishing as much as possible. But unfortunately I have some coins that are kept in a lighthouse case and a coin from there has a similar milking to what your cons have.

 

What coins do you have with this milking Chris? 

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What coins do you have with this milking Chris?

etytuhez.jpg

Canadian falcon. Was stored in a coin flip in a lighthouse case. Transferred it to an airtite afterwards.

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My old bottle never fails to sort these problems out..... ;)

uk_goddardslongtermsilverpolish.jpg

I'd only ever use this to polish silverware. Coins should not be cleaned at all with polish. If needs must submerging in baking soda and warm water, but only if it's for yourself, I would never clean a coin and then sell it (at least without clearly stating it had been cleaned)

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I'd only ever use this to polish silverware. Coins should not be cleaned at all with polish. If needs must submerging in baking soda and warm water, but only if it's for yourself, I would never clean a coin and then sell it (at least without clearly stating it had been cleaned)

Can I ask why?. Is there a written rule that silver coins are so different from anything else made from silver that they react differently when polish is used? Or is it the oft repeated mantra of coin collectors "Don't clean ya coins, you'll ruin 'em" :D Although no one can actually tell anyone when this "fact" came into being. Other silver items with a much larger premium than coins, are worth much more cleaned than uncleaned, and yet coin collectors seem to be at odds with the rest of the silver world, again I ask, why? Fair enough, I can understand coins that were actually used for the purpose they were originally created for, as coinage, should be left well alone, but I'm sorry, although these current bullion coins are described as "legal tender", they are not. No matter how much you wrap it up in fancy wording. You're not going to pop to the shops with your £2 Britannia to buy a loaf and a pint of milk. These coins are nothing more than ornaments made from a precious metal, no different to say a silver tray or silver figurine. To believe that these items we all love to buy are anything more than that, I think is deluding. 

 

Personally, I think it's all a load of bull on par with the wine "conosewers" who say you can only drink this wine with this food, and white wine needs to be chilled and red wine needs to "breathe" at room temperature.

 

Me.... well I like chilled red wine with a sausage and brown sauce sarnie.... so there  :P

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If I was offered a cleaned American silver eagle and a BU (because I don't personally believe a coin which has been cleaned - bullion or not - can be classed as BU) American silver eagle for the same price I would always choose the latter if I knew what had been done.

I would never knowingly buy a cleaned coin, I wouldn't be very happy if I found out the dealer knowingly passed one on without telling me.

More of a trust issue than an issue than anything.

Maybe I'm more barebones, meh.

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Can I ask why?. Is there a written rule that silver coins are so different from anything else made from silver that they react differently when polish is used? Or is it the oft repeated mantra of coin collectors "Don't clean ya coins, you'll ruin 'em" :D Although no one can actually tell anyone when this "fact" came into being. Other silver items with a much larger premium than coins, are worth much more cleaned than uncleaned, and yet coin collectors seem to be at odds with the rest of the silver world, again I ask, why? Fair enough, I can understand coins that were actually used for the purpose they were originally created for, as coinage, should be left well alone, but I'm sorry, although these current bullion coins are described as "legal tender", they are not. No matter how much you wrap it up in fancy wording. You're not going to pop to the shops with your £2 Britannia to buy a loaf and a pint of milk. These coins are nothing more than ornaments made from a precious metal, no different to say a silver tray or silver figurine. To believe that these items we all love to buy are anything more than that, I think is deluding.

Personally, I think it's all a load of bull on par with the wine "conosewers" who say you can only drink this wine with this food, and white wine needs to be chilled and red wine needs to "breathe" at room temperature.

Me.... well I like chilled red wine with a sausage and brown sauce sarnie.... so there :P

It is my opinion based on how polishing works, by removing a layer. Every time you polish you are damaging the item slightly and removing a thin layer of silver, whilst I would do this for silverware and cutlery I would not do it to a coin as it damages the surface of the coin with abrasions.

The reason I would polish silver cutlery is because it's main purpose is a practical one followed by a secondary purpose of looking aseptically pleasing by looking nice and shiny, I want my silverware to be nice and shiny. You may want to polish your coins too, which is absolutely fine if you don't sell them without declaring they have been cleaned.

What if someone wanted to grade a coin they bought from you, thinking that it was a perfect coin because it looked nice and clean and shiny.

Not declaring that a coin has been polished or cleaned is dishonest and may induces a buyer into purchasing. This is misrepresentation wether fraudulently or negligently.

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It is my opinion based on how polishing works, by removing a layer. Every time you polish you are damaging the item slightly and removing a thin layer of silver, whilst I would do this for silverware and cutlery I would not do it to a coin as it damages the surface of the coin with abrasions.

The reason I would polish silver cutlery is because it's main purpose is a practical one followed by a secondary purpose of looking aseptically pleasing by looking nice and shiny, I want my silverware to be nice and shiny. You may want to polish your coins too, which is absolutely fine if you don't sell them without declaring they have been cleaned.

What if someone wanted to grade a coin they bought from you, thinking that it was a perfect coin because it looked nice and clean and shiny.

Not declaring that a coin has been polished or cleaned is dishonest and may induces a buyer into purchasing. This is misrepresentation wether fraudulently or negligently.

See my post on the other thread, but you are simply wrong when you claim its is fraudulant. We are not talking about polishing a coin thousands of times a removing a micro layer of silver. we are talking about a polish once in a blue moon. This "micro layer" you are referring to only occurs when you are using the bicarb soak cleaning method, using todays modern polishes neither scratches nor does it remove any negligable amounts of silver. In fact the coins are damaged more by taken them in or out of a capsule or allowing them to rattle about in the capsule. 

 

As for someone wanting to get a coin graded, well I have stated my opinion elsewhere on what I think of graded coins. If people want to spend hundreds of pounds extra on a coin just because some unknown person has said "yeah this coin is ok" and stuck it in a bit of plastic then that is fair enough. Each to their own.

 

But we are talking of Bullion coins, Coins created to store wealth in PM's in convenient sizes. Nothing more nothing less. If people want to pay premiums because they think one bullion coin is special just because lots of other people also think it is special, then I say let them go ahead. I'm not going to get involved with that part of silver stacking.

 

Yes I agree you should not alter asthetically a nuismatic coin, but bullion coins are just a lump of 1oz silver in pretty designs. If people want to make them more than that then again, fair enough. But I have no intention of losing money on a coin, because of a sheep mentality. Sorry, but that is my opinion. 

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Hi HT.

 

Not sure if your new to stacking / collecting silver coins, bars or rounds, But lots of the long term folk i know have a serious love of the stuff and what your suggesting would be a big NO!

 

I wouldn't buy or sell cleaned silver in any shape or form!

 

Cleaning will change the surface of any silver item full stop if not why would you use it?

 

To change the surface of an item is to change the item and would need to be disclosed in a description to reflect this change.

 

The other issues you raise here are going off topic but your basic principles seem to be "silver is silver" but many other people here realise the silver has a value, design has a value and quality has a value too!

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Cleaning will change the surface of any silver item full stop if not why would you use it?

 

 

 

Personally, I don't really care if my bullion coins have had their surface changed, especially if i needed a electron microscope to see any changes. I'm interested in the silver content and the ability to sell them on when I need to,

 

If Canada Mint was able to produce bullion coins without milk spots then maybe cleaning them wouldn't be needed. And I've noticed on lots of forums and you tube videos, that "lots of the long term folk" have no problems getting rid of milk spots with jewellers cloths, 

 

If collectors/stackers, both new and old were able to house their collections in the proper manner then maybe then they too will have no issue with coins toning or developing fogging/milkspots. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out there is an inherent flaw with the majority of capsules that people use to house their coins. There is always a very small air gap surrounding the coin in a lot of capsules. And unless you are capsulating your coins in a hermetically sealed room with no moisture in the air, then I'm afraid there is always the risk of trapping moisture in the capsule in the coin.

 

This is why I prefer the old school method, tried and trusted by coin collectors with coins worth way more than our pretty rounds of silver.

 

!B9h2EjgCGk~$(KGrHqV,!i8EzN)NUWFpBM6E3ep 

Amazingly none of my coins have ever toned or fogged or milk spotted once they are sealed in their card. And it's a lot cheaper as well  :) 

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