New to Stacking and this is my plan:

[ChrisF]

Hi All,

If you can’t be bothered to read my waffle skip down to THE PLAN at the bottom and thanks for reading.  Apologies if this in the wrong forum buy it seemed the most appropriate.

As the title says I am completely new to stacking making by first Purchase yesterday of the Queen’s Beasts 2016 (I wanted to get in from the start, though it was expensive (£45 from the royal mint, I’ve since found cheaper.  Lesson one learned!) and the Angel coin from the Pobjoy Mint as they are stopping making coins for the Isle of Man I thought it may be a good investment.

Speaking on investment I see myself as 50% collector 50% Stacker which I will explain later.  I am in this for the long haul given the prices here in the UK with VAT and Postage (which totally sucks).  I’m aware of silvertogo in Germany so will be using them but checking other sites for cheaper deals. 

I just quickly wanted to detail my strategy given my limited funds and the fact I live in the UK.  So initially I was going to purchase a few coins every month which seemed like a good idea until I noticed the price of delivery which would eat into any potential profits down the line.  This leads me to the conclusion that I should just buy in bulk for the year from my savings and pay it back over the year thereby saving on shipping costs and getting the lower VAT silver from Germany.  If I buy piecemeal I may get a cheaper deal but pay delivery vs buying in bulk with massive savings on delivery.  So second thing, what to buy?

Well I decided given the terrible price over spot we pay here my best bet was semi-numi coins because of the fact they have spot value and collector value.  I was going to buy a bunch of Britannia’s (due to CGT) and just leave them for 20 odd years and see what the spot was then but thought that if I buy a few types of coin I may be able to flip some 3 or 4 years down the line and buy Britannia’s with the profits, given I won’t be buying rolls of 25s any time soon I don’t really need to worry about CGT).  So this is what I’m going to do:

THE PLAN.

*I have about £400/500 a year to spend on silver, give or take.

*50% collector 50% Stacker, buy 2 of everything and sell one later (years/decades) for a slight profit.

*Ultimately saving for when I retire in 25 years or so.

*One off bulk buy for the year (save on shipping due to my low volume purchase)

Coins I’m planning on buying:

2x Kookaburra 2017

2x Kangaroo 2017

2x Britannia 2017

2x Lunar Rooster 2017

2x Chinese Panda 2016

2x Chinese Panda 2017

2x Somalia Elephant 2016

2x Somalia Elephant 2017

2x Queens Beasts 2016

2x Queens Beasts 2017

2x Dragon and Phoenix (Perth Mint)

Total cost as of today would be £500

 

So I plan on rinse repeating the above every year selling 1 of each when I can make a little profit over the years and reinvesting that to buy coins.  If spot goes through the roof I’ve not lost out, if it stays low or goes lower I’ll just keep hold of them. 

So what do you guys think, will this strategy pay off in the long run?   Thanks to anyone who manager to read until the end and I’d appreciate your thoughts.

[ifing]

4 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

....

So initially I was going to purchase a few coins every month which seemed like a good idea until I noticed the price of delivery which would eat into any potential profits down the line.  This leads me to the conclusion that I should just buy in bulk for the year from my savings and pay it back over the year thereby saving on shipping costs and getting the lower VAT silver from Germany.  If I buy piecemeal I may get a cheaper deal but pay delivery vs buying in bulk with massive savings on delivery.  So second thing, what to buy?

....

Just to give another idea in your head. Don't know if you have thought about it. If you have a greater amount of money to spend on a bulk buy. Then you can buy a waste amount of a certain coin, and resell them here. Because if you read the thru the forum you will see, you are not alone when it comes to wanting to buy the cheapest silver. As you stated shipping from Germany is high, shipping in UK not so?? (I'm Swedish so can't say for sure.) So if you see in the sell adds, what coins that sells easiest. So you don't end up with a coin that is hard to sell. So the price you paid for the coin, divide what the shipping costed for you per coin, and add small percentage profit to it. See what you end up with. Check that to the sell adds, how likely it is for a successful sell. Then doing that every third month.

This is just an idea.

[ChrisF]

Thanks for the reply, shipping in the UK is not quite as bad but the VAT @ 20% makes deals in the UK hard to find next to the lower VAT rate of Germany.  I will have a look through what sells though.  Good idea.

[Paul]

Small quantity & your delivery costs are gonna majorly eat into any gains and youll be paying top price on every order you make

Just stack gold sovereigns, full or halfs.  You got a few good shops in Newcastle that can supply you easily and at very fair price

Newcastle Jewellery Company Pilgrim Street, Corbitts Mosely Street and Intercoin Clayton Street .  ALL are reliable trust worthy and give fair prices and buy back rates 90%-98%

I went hell for leather into silver years back and still nursing the wounds now, now in hindsight I wish I had started with gold and stuck with gold through out.

If your heart is set on silver and wont change just get you coins from Corbitts, they get new stuff in all the time

[ChrisF]

Hi Paul,

 

I was kind of holding off gold as it is supposed to be over valued and the spread between it and silver is quite wide in that it looks like silver will rise long term.  I also wont get much gold for my cash which limits my options if I want to sell anything. I had a look at the shops you mention on the net.  They look like the kind of places where you go to buy Florins and the like which is a bit daunting for someone new like me.  

[Micky9776]

34 minutes ago, Paul said:

Small quantity & your delivery costs are gonna majorly eat into any gains and youll be paying top price on every order you make

Just stack gold sovereigns, full or halfs.  You got a few good shops in Newcastle that can supply you easily and at very fair price

Newcastle Jewellery Company Pilgrim Street, Corbitts Mosely Street and Intercoin Clayton Street .  ALL are reliable trust worthy and give fair prices and buy back rates 90%-98%

I went hell for leather into silver years back and still nursing the wounds now, now in hindsight I wish I had started with gold and stuck with gold through out.

If your heart is set on silver and wont change just get you coins from Corbitts, they get new stuff in all the time

I also live in the north east and haven't tried these shops yet, will have to have a look next time I go to Newcastle, do they stock and sell different silver and gold coins or is it just what people sell to them?

[Paul]

it is hit and miss each visit - you never know whats in 

Newcastle Jewellery Company use a HGM type of model, get it out ASAP so price is always keen. Anything around too long goes to melt as they specalise in scrap as you'll have seen in local press

Corbitts is primarily a philatelic dealer stamps and stuff. but carry coins, notes ans also bullion - always have something on offer. always worth a visit. picked up some nice stuff at fair prices

Intercoin will generally always poorest choice which is a shame as the chap on owns it is dead canny.  Again you can hit lucky. As he is pawnbroker as well, you can occasionally get stuff that hasn't been collected

[Micky9776]

25 minutes ago, Paul said:

it is hit and miss each visit - you never know whats in 

Newcastle Jewellery Company use a HGM type of model, get it out ASAP so price is always keen. Anything around too long goes to melt as they specalise in scrap as you'll have seen in local press

Corbitts is primarily a philatelic dealer stamps and stuff. but carry coins, notes ans also bullion - always have something on offer. always worth a visit. picked up some nice stuff at fair prices

Intercoin will generally always poorest choice which is a shame as the chap on owns it is dead canny.  Again you can hit lucky. As he is pawnbroker as well, you can occasionally get stuff that hasn't been collected

Thanks for that Paul! I will be paying a visit next time I'm there

[Mcgrimes]

2 hours ago, Paul said:

Small quantity & your delivery costs are gonna majorly eat into any gains and youll be paying top price on every order you make

Just stack gold sovereigns, full or halfs.  You got a few good shops in Newcastle that can supply you easily and at very fair price

Newcastle Jewellery Company Pilgrim Street, Corbitts Mosely Street and Intercoin Clayton Street .  ALL are reliable trust worthy and give fair prices and buy back rates 90%-98%

I went hell for leather into silver years back and still nursing the wounds now, now in hindsight I wish I had started with gold and stuck with gold through out.

If your heart is set on silver and wont change just get you coins from Corbitts, they get new stuff in all the time

I agree, and due to the small premium on second hand gold, you might be able to justify making small but more frequent orders.

Silver looks good, but it is far more expensive (margin wise)

[sixgun]

I see you have put up a list of silver coins you intend to collect.

You have a relatively limited budget but you are investing way more than 99% of people so you are streets ahead.

As you won't be able to buy masses of coins you need to pick coins which will give you the maximum bang for your buck. 

Be an opportunist. If something comes up and it is good value and has good prospects go for it. 

As mentioned buying the odd silver coin will create postage costs that will destroy your profit potential and buying only 2 coins you will not get the discount you might enjoy with a multiple purchase. 

i would focus on coins that have a numismatic angle. So forget about the kangaroo - this will never be a collector coin, you will never get more than the value of the silver. 

On paper the Somali Elephants look good but early years had very small mintages, more recently the mintages have gone up. i got some a couple of years ago and recently found 40% of them had milk spot or some tarnishing. i had managed to get them when on special offer from silver-to-go, when the price of silver was down and the pound was stronger against the Euro. i will not be getting them again. 

The Kookaburra is a nice looking coin from a good Mint, forming a varied series. I recently ran through the whole series and it is affordable. I wonder why it does not appreciate more. i really like the coin. Perhaps things will change.

My main advice is to not to be rigid in what you buy. Be an opportunist.

The advice about buying gold over silver - the gold to silver ratio is high. It might fall to a long term historic level but it might not. You can get half-sovereigns for a good price which you can sell for near that price. Silver seems attractive b/c of the low prices and the idea you can get a lot of coins but even when VAT is zero or very low the premium you will pay for silver is much higher than gold. Seriously think about half sovereigns. You could build up an interesting collection over time. 

[4Nines7Hills]

@ChrisF

welcome to the site I have a similar strategy but a slightly larger ( but not by much ) budget.

silver has a higher premium and vat than Gold So the gold silver ratio needs amending for btits stacking physical.

your strategy is sound but if Mrs May insists on her hard brexit as she is currently claiming,vat free silver may not be available for long, which is why I am switching more to sovereigns as silver maybe unecconomical then

some say month price average, I do not due to high shipping costs. December terms to be cheaper, so I buy in bulk then

my advice  stick to the found where the design changes for your collecting side and have numismatic value so kooks, Pandas, koala and perth lunars 2 or more of each. Don't bother with the rest of the coins well maybe elephant but some say they milk spot.

keep one flip the rest in a few years. 

Also buy at least one sov a year( this years is a slightly different design to the norm) as its low premium and diversifies your stack from just silver.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChrisF]

Thanks for the advice Sixgun.  As I indicated, there is a collectors side to me as well as a Stacker side.  Truth be told gold scares me a bit its so damn expensive to put all my cash in one coin.  I understand what you are saying about silver, but as I indicated I can wait years and not sell.  Because I cant buy in bulk its not about flipping for me.  If a coin is worth not much more than spot now it may be in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years and if Its not Im sure spot will rise during that time.  I think that there is more potential in silver because its so cheap and very much in demand all the time.  I though I'd take a punt on the Kangaroos as the Maples and ASE are the most minted coins.  I would like to look at gold at some point if I can make a profit off silver or a have a large pile of silver in a few years time.  

[ChrisF]

Thanks for the reply 4Nines.  I think judging by previous comments, any profits i make I will use to save up for some gold.  I was wondering what Brexit may mean for silver collecting in the UK. Interesting times ahead.

[4Nines7Hills]

imo silver and gold should both be vat free, May help reduce all this personal debt the world is in as you can buy stuff and save at the same time - unfortunately that isn't the case

[sixgun]

28 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 Truth be told gold scares me a bit its so damn expensive to put all my cash in one coin. 

I though I'd take a punt on the Kangaroos as the Maples and ASE are the most minted coins. 

 

 

 

i know, gold is so expensive. The advantage of silver if you do have a small budget is you aren't selling as big a percentage when you sell a silver coin but do your sums.

You can make more with silver if you chose the right coins. StackSmart Silver does a youtube channel comparing some of the popular coins. He is a member here but don't know his username. Maybe you would be better getting a 2oz coin or 4 1/2oz coins - look at how the coins appreciate over the longer term and investigate the mintage numbers.

My advice is

Don't buy Maples - they develop milk spot+++++++++++++++ Don't buy any Canadian Mint stuff - they spot. I would not get Kangaroos for the reason i mentioned and although the ASE is a pretty sound coin there are many millions of those.

17 minutes ago, 4Nines7Hills said:

imo silver and gold should both be vat free, May help reduce all this personal debt the world is in as you can buy stuff and save at the same time - unfortunately that isn't the case

 

 

 

YES - they should be VAT free -BUT remember they are the people's real money and the 'powers that be' want us to go digital. 

[ChrisF]

Thanks Sixgun, I'll check that channel out now.

[4Nines7Hills]

I like stacksmarts youtube channel, he buys several of each semi numismatic coin he liked and sells after three or four years for twice the original price to fund future purchases.

I found that channel before this forum mainly as its easier to watch than read

[ChrisF]

He sounds like a genius, thats what I plan on doing but at a lower volume to start with =D

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, sixgun said:

StackSmart Silver does a youtube channel comparing some of the popular coins. He is a member here but don't know his username

his username on here is, funnily enough, @StackSmart

1 hour ago, 4Nines7Hills said:

he buys several of each semi numismatic coin he liked and sells after three or four years for twice the original price to fund future purchases.

yes this is model I have always recommended. Maybe x2 the price is pushing it a bit, but has worked for some coins.

[Kman]

Probably every one of us here collects/stacks slightly differently so it's hard to give advice too much, I will say the following though:

Precious metals on their own I would look at as savings rather than an investment, because there are much better investments out there

Learn as much as you can before you buy anything

Don't just concentrate on how much you can buy things for, need a plan for selling them too, short term (just in case) and long term as the selling is going to be the triumph or disaster of the PM adventure

I think there has to be some level of enjoyment with it, you have to like what you're buying

----------

After saying all that, personally I don't stack silver, gold is just much more convenient, easier to store, post etc

If I were you id just buy sovereigns and keep my ear to the ground here for the odd bargain and to learn about coins that may well be a good quick flip'n'profit opportunity

[SilverTanner]

I am with Kman, I don't stack silver any more due to the premium requiring big changes in the spot price or the gamble of picking the correct coins.  I now only stack bullion sovereigns as they are easy to buy and sell. To trade the silver price I use ETFs in an ISA.

I am buying even more numismatic coins, recently picked up a 1878 sixpence in MS64 cheap so shouldn't lose on that - this area requires more reading though!

ST

[sovereignsteve]

6 hours ago, Kman said:

Precious metals on their own I would look at as savings rather than an investment, because there are much better investments out there

As a long term investment, I would tend to agree, as they are not going to perform very well and then stay there, but tend to just keep their value, on average, over time. However, on  a shorter term basis, they are a valid and sometimes profitable investment vehicle.

[Guest]

I would advise learning and absorbing knowledge and experience. Personally I prefer gold over silver with certain careful exceptions.

One of the ways that I learned was to take a look at what other stackers are selling. What does not work out? I believe a lot of what is sold here on this forum represents either a loss or a marginal gain.

The key profit driver is actually exchange rates and timing. Buy very special things or semi numismatic.

Bullion buying in this country is equal to exchange rate gambling.

Watch out for early pre-order opportunities as they are a good way not to lose money.



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[Oldun]

Silver is for barter. Gold is for storage of wealth. Silver reflects inflation.....i.e. Goes up when there is inflation, goes down in deflation. 

500 quid ? I would buy a sovereign and a half and if there is any change left, a handful of silver to see how you feel about it all.

[Paul]

16 hours ago, ChrisF said:

I had a look at the shops you mention on the net.  They look like the kind of places where you go to buy Florins and the like which is a bit daunting for someone new like me.  

None of the businesses I mentioned based in bricks and mortar locations in Newcastle have a reasonable web presence but this can be a very good thing if you know what you are looking for.

From what you seem to write you seem to be wanting to stack on precious metals on a very low budget.  

Far better to get you own financial house in order and just stack cash

Pay down or pay off any debts you have

Build an emergency fund of six months wages or expenses should life throw you some bad luck.  

By stacking cash at least you then have zero risk of loosing any money other than to invisible annual inflation

You should only be dabbling into investing in precious metals with money you have maxed out in other risk free financial vehicles. 

Also what is seldom ever mentioned on forums or articles is investing your cash into your own ongoing personal 'education', get better skills for your trade/job, better qualifications that will lead to big wages,  spending a few hundred quid on learning about health, diet, cooking correctly, chef skills, batch cooking, veg growing, baking own bread, tools for your house to do jobs to do yourself, learning car basic repairs & maintenance.

In this case a few weeks just reading up on precious metals with learn you far more than just jumping in with both feet only to regret it down the line