Fake silver bullion coins

[GrahamHantsHog]

Today I recieved a one ounce 2015 australian Kookaburra privy and a 2016 wedgetail eagle, got them home and did the magnet,weight and measurement tests and all failed, I got an immediate refund from the ebay seller and told ai could keep the fake coins as a gesture of goodwill lol, he obviously knew they were fake ! 

A reminder to all to test your coins a,

[Paul]

Name and shame the eBay seller 

[Bullionbilly]

13 minutes ago, Paul said:

Name and shame the eBay seller 

+1 definately.

[Paul]

Also to add the fact he has offered you to keep them FOC as a 'gesture of goodwill' to appease you really means

• PLEASE DONT LEAVE ME NEGATIVE FEEDBACK
• PLEASE DONT ALERT OTHERS
• PLEASE DONT REPORT ME TO EBAY

Instead do all of the above, for what its worth.  

[BackyardBullion]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

Also to add the fact he has offered you to keep them FOC as a 'gesture of goodwill' to appease you really means

• PLEASE DONT LEAVE ME NEGATIVE FEEDBACK
• PLEASE DONT ALERT OTHERS
• PLEASE DONT REPORT ME TO EBAY

Instead do all of the above, for what its worth.  

Highly recommend you report and leave negative feedback.

Glad you got your money back!

[sovereignsteve]

I'm a firm believer in the original concept of the Ebay feedback system. prospective buyers and sellers need to know the trading history of it's members. This means all relevant issues should be documented for all to see. As the majority of the active members of this forum are likely to either frequent Ebay or potentially do so, it is justifiable IMO to name and shame any ebay transgressors.on this forum.

Of course, Chris may disagree but it is his prerogative to set the boundaries for discussion here.

[danmc82]

I had a similar issue but with the 1780 maria Theresa Thaler Silver coins. I bought 11 from different ebay sellers and two were fake.

Not sure if the sellers knew, If you only have one theres nothing to compare it two.

Got a refund after sending back to them.

 

[vand]

I can't stress that Ebay is JUST NOT WORTH IT.

If you get a dud from EBay, I would almost suggest that you deserve it. Take it as a learning experience and do NOT source your buying from there again. It's simply full of fakes.

[danmc82]

2 hours ago, vand said:

I can't stress that Ebay is JUST NOT WORTH IT.

If you get a dud from EBay, I would almost suggest that you deserve it. Take it as a learning experience and do NOT source your buying from there again. It's simply full of fakes.

But the thing with ebay is you can get a swap/refund easy if you do find out its fake. And theres plenty of coins/bars you can get off ebay which just arnt available on bullion/coin websites.

[BackyardBullion]

2 hours ago, vand said:

I can't stress that Ebay is JUST NOT WORTH IT.

If you get a dud from EBay, I would almost suggest that you deserve it. Take it as a learning experience and do NOT source your buying from there again. It's simply full of fakes.

There are some absolute bargains to be had on eBay - I have picked up genuine 999 silver bars at below spot price because of mislabelled auction names or buy it now alerts coming to me when people list silver at a certain price. This year I have picked up a 10oz perth mint bar at spot -5%, a 500g hand poured scrap ingot at spot +1% and a 5oz Tombstone bar at spot +15% (you wouldn't get anything like this price anywhere else!).

Deals are possible and as a buyer who knows your stuff you are very well protected against fakes and can easily get your money back. 

[GrahamHantsHog]

I have filed the fake coins and attched a photo to show you people the colour of the filings ! 

I have made the neccessary complaint to ebay and left appropriate feedback, its easy to want to feel like getting your own back or name and shame etc but you have to prove intent, there is a chance the seller was genuine and was caught like me, slim I know but all the same, I got my money back because I know how to test silver coins now, I did specific gravity tests, magnet,weight and dimension taking with verniers, and the coins were below the required specs.

when i buy off ebay i half expect the coins to be fake but i have had some good deals so its a chance i take, both times i have bought fakes i have got my money back so no great risk.

[vand]

19 hours ago, BackyardBullion said:

There are some absolute bargains to be had on eBay - I have picked up genuine 999 silver bars at below spot price because of mislabelled auction names or buy it now alerts coming to me when people list silver at a certain price. This year I have picked up a 10oz perth mint bar at spot -5%, a 500g hand poured scrap ingot at spot +1% and a 5oz Tombstone bar at spot +15% (you wouldn't get anything like this price anywhere else!).

Deals are possible and as a buyer who knows your stuff you are very well protected against fakes and can easily get your money back. 

 

To an extent, you are right, but it is a minefield and too easy to get wrong.

IMO at least 50% of silver on fleabay is either:

- Outright fake

- deliberately misleading eg "German" silver

- Not what is shown in the picture

 

If you buy anything with a picture of a panda or an bird on it, then it is 99.99% likely to be fake imo. 

and then 95% of the remaining genuine stuff normally goes for above dealer prices anyway, so what's the point? Perhaps you are right that you can occassionally get a good deal, but the risks and the time involved in monitoring auctions, and then testing the silver and making complaints and sending the duff stuff back, plus the feeling you get when you do get a fake (trust me, no one feels delighted, even if they can get their money back)... its just a complete waste of time. Life is too short.

[sovereignsteve]

7 hours ago, vand said:

 

To an extent, you are right, but it is a minefield and too easy to get wrong.

IMO at least 50% of silver on fleabay is either:

- Outright fake

- deliberately misleading eg "German" silver

- Not what is shown in the picture

 

If you buy anything with a picture of a panda or an bird on it, then it is 99.99% likely to be fake imo. 

 

I haven't found that in my experience, not even close.

[GoldBenj]

To be honest if you stick with sellers with a good reputation and honest feedback then you can't go wrong, it may be a bit more expensive than the "Bargains" however surely paying a little more for peace of mind is worth it.

[vand]

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

I haven't found that in my experience, not even close.

Fair enough. I have found that 100% in my experience.

[vand]

34 minutes ago, GoldBenj said:

To be honest if you stick with sellers with a good reputation and honest feedback then you can't go wrong, it may be a bit more expensive than the "Bargains" however surely paying a little more for peace of mind is worth it.

But if you can't beat dealer prices.. then what's the point! Most stuff on fleabay is sold above dealer price anyway!

[GoldBenj]

Oh i don't disagree at all, just stating that if using ebay you should stick to trusted sellers

[Pete]

You were lucky to get refunded whilst being able to keep your fake coins for further research.
The beauty of this forum is people like you taking the time and making the effort to share your experience.
There are definitely many more fakes in circulation and some I am sure pass through the system undetected.
Unless you check very carefully at the point of receipt I doubt many of us would be able to trace their purchases a year from now and if you did uncover a fake a year later there is nothing you could do to convince the seller that this was the coin he / she sold you.

If you get the time and would care to share your test method, step by step, as instruction, I am sure many stackers would welcome the chance to learn how you conducted your tests, in what order, and what was it that made you suspect fakes in the first place. This could also make a great Youtube video especially the end where you hack a slice out of each coin - that's real confidence !

[SilverSniper]

On 12/20/2016 at 13:44, vand said:

I can't stress that Ebay is JUST NOT WORTH IT.

If you get a dud from EBay, I would almost suggest that you deserve it. Take it as a learning experience and do NOT source your buying from there again. It's simply full of fakes.

 

There are also many reputable dealers who have eBay shops.  Please don't tar everyone with the same brush 

[SilverSniper]

14 hours ago, vand said:

 

To an extent, you are right, but it is a minefield and too easy to get wrong.

IMO at least 50% of silver on fleabay is either:

- Outright fake

- deliberately misleading eg "German" silver

- Not what is shown in the picture

 

If you buy anything with a picture of a panda or an bird on it, then it is 99.99% likely to be fake imo. 

and then 95% of the remaining genuine stuff normally goes for above dealer prices anyway, so what's the point? Perhaps you are right that you can occassionally get a good deal, but the risks and the time involved in monitoring auctions, and then testing the silver and making complaints and sending the duff stuff back, plus the feeling you get when you do get a fake (trust me, no one feels delighted, even if they can get their money back)... its just a complete waste of time. Life is too short.

 

Yes eBay dealer prices are higher, because eBay fees are higher.  

Many of my customers keep buying from my eBay shop, even though I have pointed out that my prices are far lower on my own website, and the buyer protection is the same on my own website as it is via eBay (plus PayPal);  yet they keep buying via eBay.  You can lead a horse to water, etc. 

[GrahamHantsHog]

Ebay have sent me a message saying they have removed my feedback as it breaks their policies on deformation ? This is what I wrote

"the coin was not silver as described, seller refunded quickly" someone please tell me how this is not right and defamatory ? Seems that Ebay like to protect those who do wrong to others, of course the seller may have bought in good faith like myself, but what is the point in the Ebay feedback system if it removes honest feedback that is intended to help future buyers, I will not be buying from any more ebay sellers.

My test methods were as follows in order, I am assuming some readers are not aware of these methods,

Magnet, if the magnet slides off the coin with little or no resistance or sticks to the coin, the coin is not silver, silver coins have a resistance that makes the magnet slde slower down the coin,

weight, if the coin is underweight it is fake, a silver bullion coin should be 31.1 grams minimum, these were both around 30 grams

dimensions, using ditigal vernier gauge, the diameter and thickness did not match manufacturers specification

specific gravity, both coins were well below the figure of 10.49 for silver, they were in the 8-9 region which I believe is the figure for brass, the filings certainly look `brassy` !

needless to say both coins failed all tests, they were extremely accurate copies visually

 

 

 

[Bullionbilly]

Does this ebay seller sell lots of coins ? Or have lots listed ? Id say if they do they knew all along that they were fakes.

Surely everybody who buys silver checks it out ? I do even when bought from dealers just for practice and curiousity really. 

[sovereignsteve]

the ebay feedback system has long since ceased to be fit for purpose. One more reason why like-minded people on this forum should share experiences which includes naming sellers of fakes. All it needs is a simple statement of facts. People do post obviously dubious listings already.

Most experienced buyers here will be able to spot the dubious listings but those less experienced in ebay buying may benefit.

[Pete]

Any seller on eBay who sells a fake coin should be monitored by an eBay representative.
If this seller has multiple listings of the same coin or other coins that are also fakes then the seller should be struck-off including cancellation of their PayPal account.
Where the seller is clearly trying to conduct a business selling fakes ( not worth it I assume for a few coins only ) surely the seller should be prosecuted as if selling other merchandise that is counterfeit or faked. Where is the BBC RIP-OFF Britain team when you need them ? - name & shame the culprits then off to the village stocks for a pelting with rotten fruit & veg and maybe something the dog left in the park !!

 

[kiskelo]

Received the below from ebay last week. I got a refund straight away and reported the seller to ebay fraud department.

Weight = 30.06g

SG = 8.4

Failed magnet test.

The lettering is raised when it should be recessed. The seller showed a stock photo of a real coin.