Nanjing Panda (missing year) is out now

[Guest]

The Nanjing Mint has produced a set of 2015 pandas to fill the gap when no pandas were minted at Nanjing in 2015. luckmoneyro is the contact for these. Mintages are

* Copper, mintage 99.

* Brass, mintage 199.

* Copper antiqued, mintage 30.

* Brass antiqued, mintage 30.

To be minted soon

* 65 g silver, mintage unknown (probably 199).

* 65 g silver antiqued (uncertain), mintage unknown (probably 30).

The design is Cheng Chao, the same person who designed many of the main series pandas.

The key set to the series due to the low mintage is Copper.

First coins are now on eBay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/222346772566

Copper $110

https://www.ebay.com/itm/322361203346

Brass

https://www.ebay.com/itm/222347552588

Antique Set $600

Silver should be around soon

Thanks to badon and CCF for pics

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Silverstackeruk]

Not to keen on this design..the 2016 looks much nicer but if your collecting the sets then it's a must have...

[badon]

I have to admit, most of the time when I see a new Nanjing mint design, it isn't very appealing to me in the photos. Then, after I have bought them and I see them in-hand, my opinion changes, and I end up really liking them. The Nanjing 2015 pandas are very attractive in my eyes. Their artistic style reminds me of the Lan Ting garden in the Classical Gardens series. I don't know who design the Lan Ting, but maybe it was Cheng Chao, or someone else with similar artistic influences?

[ArthGoch]

2 hours ago, Silverstackeruk said:

Not to keen on this design..the 2016 looks much nicer but if you're collecting the sets then it's a must have...

Is it just me, or does the head of the Panda on the right look like a raccoon?  

Along with the Swan and Duck of the traditional culture series,  it does appear to be a weak design and may be the rush to get this to market is being shown in the finished product.

The more I reflect on the 'Pandamania' for all things Panda, I do find myself believing that a lot of the better quality work  coming out of the PRC mints is going under the radar somewhat and in comparison to anything that is Panda or lunar in nature. The Classical Garden Series is a case in hand along with the Prehistoric Series and  Buddhist Mountain Series. Similarly a number of fiat 5 and 10 yuan commemoratives are very good ( The rock Carving for example) although in the case of fiat coins the mintage is well north of the 50k mark.  

Suppose only time will tell how these coins will be viewed in the future. 

 

[sovereignsteve]

Smacks of these things being churned out now.

[badon]

9 hours ago, ArthGoch said:

Is it just me, or does the head of the Panda on the right look like a raccoon?

 

It's not just you. trouble over at CCF has called it the "pig nose panda". Indeed, it does appear the snout is unusually long. I did not notice this!

 

Quote

[...] it does appear to be a weak design and may be the rush to get this to market is being shown in the finished product.

 

Actually, the competing Nanjing 2016 panda that depicts the Temple of Heaven pagoda on the reverse was also designed by Cheng Chao, and it beat the Nanjing 2015 pandas to the market. The reverse on that one appears to be a stock design that allowed the coin to be completed and ready for the market faster. That was a brilliant idea to put the pagoda on the reverse, because then it appears similar to the flagship fiat series, which should help to attract more interested collectors.

 

That said, I like the reverses on the original Nanjing panda series much more, especially the Great Wall on the 2015 and 2016 issues. If I remember correctly, another artist did those reverses, but I can't recall their name at the moment. 

 

 

Quote

The more I reflect on the 'Pandamania' for all things Panda, I do find myself believing that a lot of the better quality work  coming out of the PRC mints is going under the radar somewhat and in comparison to anything that is Panda or lunar in nature. The Classical Garden Series is a case in hand along with the Prehistoric Series and  Buddhist Mountain Series. Similarly a number of fiat 5 and 10 yuan commemoratives are very good ( The rock Carving for example) although in the case of fiat coins the mintage is well north of the 50k mark.  

 

I agree with you 100%. I never intended to collect the Classical Gardens series because I'm already collecting too many different things, but occasionally I acquire one in a trade or bundle deal or something like that, and the artistic quality of ALL of those is world class.

 

 

The Nanjing 2015 dragon and phoenix series is so ridiculously beautiful, Australia imitated them in their own design that is artistically inferior, and gets everything wrong in all the subtle details with cultural meanings. More info about the dragon and phoenix controversy:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/coins/comments/5bcyic/example_of_australias_perth_mint_2017_right/

https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/5bdkw7/example_of_australias_perth_mint_2017_right/

 

 

I bought the 2015 brass prehistoric animals mammoth 90 mm and 50 mm, and I am shocked at how gorgeous they are. I had no intention of collecting a complete set, but I'm an art lover and think it might be a situation like the Classical Gardens where I get 1 or 2, thinking that's the end of it, and then just keep acquiring them "accidentally" until I have a true collection of them.

 

Quote

Suppose only time will tell how these coins will be viewed in the future. 

 

Yes, but we can make educated guesses on what we think will gain traction in the future. Numistacker has done a great job of discerning the right moment to call attention to something that is about to take off on it's own "legs". So far, most of these have been pandas, but the Shenyang panda lunars and the Nanjing "cultural coins" have also become obvious successes, at least in the short term, since they only go back to 2012 when the Nanjing mint started releasing their God of Wealth 2 coin sets. But all of the coins mentioned here are very low mintages.

 

 

If we consider mintages as a measurement of success, then the clear winner by far are the Shanghai mint's bimetallic copper-nickel and brass lunars, first minted in 2015's year of the goat. If I remember correctly, the 2016 mintage was 16 million! The Shanghai mint made so much money on those with relatively tiny profit margins, they greatly decreased their interest in producing low mintage coins. Now, the only low mintage coins the Shanghai mint is producing from their own desires are coins that glorify the Shanghai mint, even if they ostensibly commemorate something else entirely. There 2016 Beijing expo coin barely mentioned the expo, with both sides of the coin almost completely covered with tributes to the Shanghai mint.

 

 

The China mints have always produced a lot of diversity in both their fiat and non-fiat coins. However, the trend is toward increasing fiat, and decreasing non-fiat. That's why savvy buyers are largely focusing on the non-fiat, even though it's substantially more expensive. The higher prices certainly take away some of the upside potential, but the numbers don't lie - the mint's make vastly more profit on high mintage fiat than they earn on low mintage coins only a few thousand people in the entire world will ever be able to own. As long as that trend continues, I feel comfortable buying low mintage coins with the knowledge that once they're gone on the primary market, they will become increasingly difficult to obtain on the secondary market with each passing year. That's a formula for higher prices, but it comes with one novel caveat:

 

Everyone except me should stop buying newly-issued low mintage coins  

 

The faster those coins stop being sufficiently profitable for the mint to continue production, the faster the market for them will mature. Until then, diversify, buy what you like, and enjoy low prices when you can find them.

[Silverstackeruk]

18 hours ago, ArthGoch said:

Is it just me, or does the head of the Panda on the right look like a raccoon?  

Along with the Swan and Duck of the traditional culture series,  it does appear to be a weak design and may be the rush to get this to market is being shown in the finished product.

The more I reflect on the 'Pandamania' for all things Panda, I do find myself believing that a lot of the better quality work  coming out of the PRC mints is going under the radar somewhat and in comparison to anything that is Panda or lunar in nature. The Classical Garden Series is a case in hand along with the Prehistoric Series and  Buddhist Mountain Series. Similarly a number of fiat 5 and 10 yuan commemoratives are very good ( The rock Carving for example) although in the case of fiat coins the mintage is well north of the 50k mark.  

Suppose only time will tell how these coins will be viewed in the future. 

 

The original designs where much nicer but didn't quite turn out to good...that's probably why they didn't release but after seeing the success of the 2016 then they pushed it out for release.

[Guest]

I think the Christmas rush has a lot to answer for and we are also seeing a highly competitive situation at dealers.

I buy what I like generally)) but the preponderance of [emoji209] pandas is very much like the safety of film sequels. These things take large amounts of capital and time to produce and nobody wants to have a duffer on their hands.

In the west we don't like to take risks and there are limitations to how fartowards traditional Chinese culture we are willing to go at this point.

It has been put to me by "trouble" on the CCF board fats many releases would not be bought at all by Chinese purchasers. I argued that many Chinese releases would be totally alien to the western mind.

The truth is that some westerners enjoy buying exotic Chinese merchandise and some Chinese are very happy to buy things available to the west and not available in China.

Witness the success of the MCM govmint moon panda project. Almost all of these were bought in the west and there were 5,000 of the 1oz coins being minted.

For the future I believe that quality will be the deciding factor as well as mintage. Some of the recent crop may have been rushed to market but the Panda Lunar is consistently excellent quality, the bimetallic 4th panda expo was inspired and the Nanjing Panda 16 was spot on.

Compare these things with some of the rubbish produced by Western mints including the USA. Look at the Perth mint dragon and Phoenix compared to the Chinese equivalent and it is clear just how lucky we are to have access to these beautiful limited mintage and availability items.



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[badon]

13 hours ago, Silverstackeruk said:

The original designs where much nicer but didn't quite turn out to good...that's probably why they didn't release but after seeing the success of the 2016 then they pushed it out for release.

I will have to reserve my final judgment until I get them in my hands. Most of the time coin designs look better in person than in photos. The original drawing artwork looks great on a screen because it is by nature 2 dimensional. So, naturally, a 3D coin will look better when we can put our actual eyes on them with stereo vision and depth perception.

[Guest]

One of the things that is nice to see is that the Nanjing Pandas are now listed in the Peter Anthony pricepedia. The Panda Lunars are also listed.




I recommend a subscription to this for serious MCC collectors



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[Guest]

First pictures of the Nanjing panda 2015 in Silver proof and antique.







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[RareAGstrikes]

How can the copper ones be worth much long term? I would prefer the silver ones.

[morezone]

Doesn't look as "Raccoon" like in silver.  They probably all look better in hand than in pics.

[Guest]

Last Nanjing Pandas arrived. Will post in received too





Silver Antique mintage 30





Silver Proof mintage 199



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[sovereignsteve]

Is it just the piccies but there looks to be better detail on the pandas in the proof? the antique one looks smooth as if the detail has been polished out.

[stevelo1973]

mine arrived today lovely high relief on them too. ordered a 5oz 2017 proof panda too should arrive this week fingers crossed 

[badon]

On 1/4/2017 at 23:52, RareAGstrikes said:

How can the copper ones be worth much long term? I would prefer the silver ones.

It can be very difficult to predict which coins will be the first to move up, and which ones will be long term best gainers. Of all the infinite possible factors that can affect coin pricing, the one that always applies, and is also the one with the most reliability and predictability, is rarity. I bet on rarity and the keys first, before I start making other bets, if I can.

[calandlew1]

Absolutely Stunning medals / coins wish I could find these to buy with such low mintage figures 

[badon]

16 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Is it just the piccies but there looks to be better detail on the pandas in the proof? the antique one looks smooth as if the detail has been polished out.

You're not mistaken! The buffing job on the 2015's is a lot harsher than it was on the 2016's and 2014's. I have found evidence that convinces me the coins were produced much faster than normal, probably because of the unusual circumstances when it was minted, 1 year late in 2016, not 2015. Cheng Chao had to design a lot of pandas in 2016, and I think some corners were cut to get the 2015's released on time, after he finished his design. The panda side on the 2015 is one of my favorite panda designs, and the Great Wall side is absolutely spectacular, but I think by the time the design was ready, the pressure was on to ship the coins as soon as possible. So, the mint employees might have chosen a coarse buffing wheel to produce the highlights on the antiqued finish a bit faster.

I just realized something. Only my coins look like they had a too-coarse buffing wheel job. The coins in the photos everyone is sharing look much nicer than mine. I wonder if maybe mine were the first ones made, before a proper buffing wheel with fine grit had been selected? That would make me feel better about the strange buffing job on my coins. I'm going to have to make photos!

[badon]

5 minutes ago, calandlew1 said:

Absolutely Stunning non-fiat coins wish I could find these to buy with such low mintage figures 

Have you seen my BESFLACS list? There is a cheap auction for a brass NGC 69 with a mintage of 199 on ebay right now. That's your best bet for the lowest possible price. There are a few others too, but they're much more expensive in Buy-It-Now and Best Offer option listings.

[calandlew1]

I'll take a look and try to find it much appreciated 

I'll take a look and try to find it much appreciated 

[badon]

On 1/4/2017 at 23:52, RareAGstrikes said:

How can the copper ones be worth much long term? I would prefer the silver ones.

21 minutes ago, badon said:

It can be very difficult to predict which coins will be the first to move up, and which ones will be long term best gainers. Of all the infinite possible factors that can affect coin pricing, the one that always applies, and is also the one with the most reliability and predictability, is rarity. I bet on rarity and the keys first, before I start making other bets, if I can.

Just looking at my coins and everyone's photos, the silver ones are clearly the most beautiful ones in my opinion. Your question got me thinking, and I remember the first of the 2014's to sell out were the silver ones. For the baby pandas, it was silver ones that were the first to sell out too. The funny thing is the silver ones in both panda sets are NOT the rarest ones, but they are definitely being collected more eagerly. I have no idea whether that trend will hold 20 years from now, but once again, I'm betting on rarity first, so the brass and copper keys are in my collection.

 

I missed the boat on the 2014 silver ones, and I still don't have one, but maybe in the future I will be able to get one. When I realized the Nanjing 2014 pandas were the first pandas from the Nanjing mint, I bought several of them, because those were the only ones still available cheaply. I got lucky, because die rotation varieties were discovered, and none of the sellers were aware of it yet. I was able to buy 1 specimen of each variety. Later we were able to figure out which ones were the key die rotation varieties, but lucky for me, I had it in my collection already because I was attempting to build a complete set. If I didn't try to build a complete set, I would have placed my bets on the "wrong" coins, and maybe I would never be able to make a complete set.

 

 

[badon]

8 minutes ago, calandlew1 said:

I'll take a look and try to find it much appreciated

I found my BESFLACS list, it's here:

 

https://forum.coincompendium.com/index.php?topic=5030.0

 

I'm working on a better way to update the spam filters, so it's out of date right now, but the coin searches are all there, and they will take you directly to the Nanjing pandas. If I remember correctly, there is no spam in the Nanjing pandas yet, so it doesn't matter that the filters are outdated. It's already spam-free, for now.