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Non-fiat Lunar Panda Questions


Orchestral

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A few weeks ago Andrew suggested that he send me photos of the medals that I had already ordered and thought were on the way.. he finally got back to me today with the photos of the coins that I ordered late November, out of the 4 proofs he's shown me (I ordered 2) all 4 have problems, 2 have the same dents as the monkey I sent back, and the 3 antiques he says he has left, 1 of which I ordered, aren't problem free either. Some of the proof problems look like they're on the capsule but he says that if I accept them he'll not accept a return/refund! <_ he says has a ngc pf70 with the same dents as monkey that i sent back implication being problem is>me, not the coins!

Wow, what piss poor service! I'm going to ask him to refund the money, just under £700 that he's had of mine for over a month, I'm also going to write up my experience to warn others. He went beyond 'lacking bedside manner' in the way he dealt with me Numi, a first time customer who wanted a replacement for a problem coin.

I'd like to thank everyone who offered their advice.



Was there a reason that half this post is missing?

I would never attempt to say who's fault it is and I am as discriminating as the next guy having sent back 50% of my purchases in the last month )) . All I will say is that he probably thinks dealing with you is a pain in the .... and he has others on his pain list not just you ... on the other hand most people have a good experience myself included.

I have had many more bad experiences with Royal Mint and Apmex than with Andy. I have graded all coins received from Andy so far and got 69 or 70 for all of them.



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Do you mean a technical problem or are you implying I've missed out some details?



The first couple of paragraphs appeared in my email but on Tapatalk at least it started with Wow and text before did not appear.


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Fair enough. I don't know why he'd think I'm a pain in the backside, I've been nothing but polite, given him the benefit of the doubt several times and (what is for me) a lot of money. All I did was return a coin that you yourself and most others would return. You said there isn't a quality control issue with Shengyang Lunars yet Andrew has given me example after example of problem coins, one physically and around 10 coins photographed, 7 problematic Roosters in Andrew's last two email alone! So it seems to me that there is QC problems, or that Andrew is trying to persuade me to purchase inferior coins.

I hear you with regards to more problems with other people but the Royal Mail & Apmex don't; Try to convince people to accept inferior coins by showing loads of photos of bad coins, don't hang on to peoples money for over a month whilst they take photos of said coins, nor do they provide false tracking numbers et cetra

I'm a pretty easy going guy, when I ordered a 1/4 Queen's beast from a guy on this forum and it was about a week late I didn't even contact him because I trusted him ;)

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I understand what you are saying and I don't disagree with you. I am sure Andy will return your money and I do not speak for him in any way. All I am saying is smaller companies generally find it easier not to have customers that complain. I wouldn't behave with customers in this way but then again I have 30+ years of experience of business and I know the uk/European culture well. Andy's coins are available from many other channels so you do not have to deal with him and you can also buy graded examples.

Where only say 99 or something has been minted every coin counts and he gets them after the mint has qa'd the coins.

To some extent I take what I am given as I know that sending pm out of and returning to china is problematic. So far nothing has been bad enough to return merchandise. I just received panda temple and was more than happy.

My roosters are waiting in London so we will see how good they are in a few days.


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To some extent you take what your given? In one of your videos you said you don't like the word 'bullion' nor do you accept bad coins that are explained away as 'just bullion' due to their premiums, these coins are mostly premium! I've followed your example in this matter, or so I thought. I do understand what you're saying regarding every coin counts and low mintage coins but no one wants coins with imperfections if they can help it. Andy has sent me photos of 7 of his 8 remaining non graded Roosters, all of which have varying degrees of problems (he says, I can hardly make out in the photos). Maybe it is just pot luck that he only has bad coins left but I certainly wouldn't suggest anyone purchase Roosters from him with those odds.

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To some extent you take what your given? In one of your videos you said you don't like the word 'bullion' nor do you accept bad coins that are explained away as 'just bullion' due to their premiums, these coins are mostly premium! I've followed your example in this matter, or so I thought. I do understand what you're saying regarding every coin counts and low mintage coins but no one wants coins with imperfections if they can help it. Andy has sent me photos of 7 of his 8 remaining non graded Roosters, all of which have varying degrees of problems (he says, I can hardly make out in the photos). Maybe it is just pot luck that he only has bad coins left but I certainly wouldn't suggest anyone purchase Roosters from him with those odds.




Let me make it very clear I reject any modern coin that's ungradeable (damaged) and I think we should demand quality from high premium expensive coins.

However if the coin is as minted and not physically damaged and if NGC would give a 69 or 70 grading and not a low grading or a details grading I am left wondering if that is the point when right gives way to pernickety?




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I'm far from an expert here, but just from observation PCGS and NGC seem to only grade the fields and not pay attention to the edges/rim... Even some of the Queens beasts and other proofs that received 70 had rim issues...

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According to the NGC grading standards (essentially Sheldon scale), they only downgrade coins/medals on post production damage.

https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/grading-scale/

If a defect is, in their eyes, formed during the minting process, it will not prevent a 70 grade being given.

It must be difficult to produce a large, thick border that is perfectly formed in the same way a proof sovereign might be. I have several 2oz kooks that have similar rim issues as these medals.

The OP states that several of these medals have identical defects therefore they must formed in the production process and thus will be disregarded by NGC.

Profile picture with thanks to Carl Vernon

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This makes sense. To be fair, a coin with some damage on the edge such as a hairline or like the graded coin Numi showed I would likely accept. I only returned the monkey who's panda had edge problems and a hole in an unfortunate place, no coin deserves that! :D

Thanks for the clarification.

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