Working Hard vs Working Smart & Investing Your Time + Money Into The Right Things

[DrDime]

That's good going Oman

@ares. Bitcoin has great potential in this area. You can already easily add change tip to YouTube videos and get paid in bitcoin immediately

[DrDime]

*Kman got auto texted to Omam :-)

[Vern]

On 21/06/2014 at 17:58, ChrisSilver said:

Kman, have you ever read a book called 'Rich Dad Poor Dad' if you haven't I highly suggest you do.

I read this book years ago and I found it helpful.

At the time I was often working from 6am to 10pm and  some weekend work to earn as much as possible so I could afford to start importing cars from Japan.

I get the whole think smart thing. In my mind one way is to find out what is HOT and get in and get out before those items or ideas cool off.

It sounds easy but finding a hot item with decent profits is often not easy. 

Perhaps I should read more  

[Paul]

As with everything in life what we are fed by society, media, teachers, parents & TV is a crock of horse poop

'Normal' is

• Go to school, study & get good grades, turn up on time, listen to authority (teachers & parents), don't question anything, don't have an opinion on anything, dont be the black sheep of the herd, be a nodding automaton 
• Go to uni, get shed load of debt & graduate,
• Get a good job for a big company, jump on the hamster wheel of life & debt servitude paying back your student tuition fees, student credit cards and student loans
• Be reliant on 'someone else' for your income/job or state benefits for your house/income
• Be time indebted to your job/family/kids/wife/debt servicing so you don't have free time to learn new skills, gain more education etc. 
• Get married (have the sword of Damocles hanging over your nuts and be on the hook all your married life the chance of loosing half your life efforts when a woman can issue a 'i'm not happy' no fault divorce.  42% end in divorce, would you buy use a parachute if it had a 42% chance of failing ? 
• Have kids which will cost your £250,000+ in your lifetime to service and bring up. 
• Save as much as possible in the ISAs/savings at awful % interest rates/stock market and chance your future on some city of london spiv to gamble/chance
• Max your pension contributions 
• Use credit/loans/catalogue/HP as normal & the right thing to do
• Buy depreciating assets like clothes/cars/tv/smartphones
• Buy as much debt in a house as property values only ever go up 
• Clip coupons to save money. . . then, someday, when you are, oh, 65 years old, you will be rich, happy and enjoy your retirement.

..........WRONG, WRONG, WRONG on so many levels.  

Do the opposite to all of the above and you will live a long, fruitful, stress-less, fulfilled life, you'll always have cash in the bank, time on your hands, be in good mental and physical health.  Low stress.  You can enjoy your retirement on a shoe string budget as your have chose not to consume the crap society tell you what you should do.

You will have the sufficient skills to still hustle an income through your retirement together with what you've saved as you will be in good health and zero debt 

 

 

[KDave]

 

1 hour ago, Paul said:

 

• Get married (have the sword of Damocles hanging over your nuts and be on the hook all your married life the chance of loosing half your life efforts when a woman can issue a 'i'm not happy' no fault divorce.  42% end in divorce, would you buy use a parachute if it had a 42% chance of failing ? 
• Have kids which will cost your £250,000+ in your lifetime to service and bring up. 

 

 

Epic post Paul funny and so true at the same time. Wish I had seen that 6 years ago before I got married and had two kids! 

Now, where did I put my golden parachute. 

[Paul]

12 minutes ago, KDave said:

Epic post Paul funny and so true at the same time. Wish I had seen that 6 years ago before I got married and had two kids! 

Now, where did I put my golden parachute. 

When it comes to marriage, I'm quite happy with Pay As You Go, I don't want a contract.

If it floats, flies or fornicates it is much much cheaper to just hire it by the hour.

Why would a good looking, stable, child free, good shape, good earning man want to saddle themselves with the same girl for life is just plain crazy, especially as their looks/figure begin to go through their 30s as she begins to turn from elegant to elephant

Men age like a fine red wine, women age like a bucket of rotten fish heads left in the sun 

[Scuzzle]

16 hours ago, Vern said:

I read this book years ago and I found it helpful.

At the time I was often working from 6am to 10pm and  some weekend work to earn as much as possible so I could afford to start importing cars from Japan.

I get the whole think smart thing. In my mind one way is to find out what is HOT and get in and get out before those items or ideas cool off.

It sounds easy but finding a hot item with decent profits is often not easy. 

Perhaps I should read more  

Have you seen what the author Robert Kiyosaki is saying nowadays though, basically buy seeds and water and prepare for the worst.

[vand]

I can't believe that people still preach Rich Dad/Poor Dad when Kiyosaki has been exposed as nothing more than a fraud and a scam artist.

 

I would highly recommend the book "The Richest Man In Babylon" which is considered a classic text on how to accumulate wealth slowly. It is from the 1930s and of course the lessons are timeless.  As a bonus for those on this forum, as it is a parable set in ancient times, it talks in terms of gold accumulation rather than fiat denominated assets.

 

it's actually free here:

 

 

[Paul]

5 minutes ago, vand said:

I can't believe that people still preach Rich Dad/Poor Dad when Kiyosaki has been exposed as nothing more than a fraud and a scam artist.

 

“Two-Dad Robert” bellicosely explains the real definition of assets and that sophisticated
investors are deep into real estate.

Robert is a success story. He created and built a brand worth millions.

But the curious question is this: Which came first?

The best-selling book or his real estate portfolio

Is there a Paradox of Practice underneath?

Did Robert have this status icon “pre-book” by averaging his real estate teachings?

Or did the Lamborghini arrive after selling millions of books?

Robert has undoubtedly amassed a great deal of wealth selling books, games, and seminars.

Is it possible you’re being sold one wealth equation while the architect of the game uses another?
Write me a confessional that tells me how to get rich selling books.
Write me a book that tells me how to become a national radio personality 
Write me a book that tells me how to make millions in real estate in two years.

Give me a damn disclaimer that confesses you don’t practice what you preach!
Many “gurus” use the Fastlane wealth equation and manufacture a smoke screen cover-up.
They’re rich by a Fastlane equation, yet sell you a different road

If you believe their apparitions of success, they get richer on the primary road and steer you onto the secondary road, void of the disclaimer:

“What I teach is not what made me rich.”

[vand]

12 minutes ago, Paul said:

 

Robert is a success story. He created and built a brand worth millions.

 

Exactly.. he is a "brand". Much like Victoria Beckham's fashion label is a brand. If you wear her clothes, don't expect to gain the same status in life that she has. I fact, the value of her brand is that it keeps you coming back and buying the latest annual "tweak" in the message.

I may be unfair as I admit I have never read any RDPD books. There's probably some sound advice in there. But how many times can you write and release the same material? The rules of wealth accumulation are the same and do not need revising every year, not do they need workshops and seminars. 

I find that the people who genuinely want to help people do not have books or newsletters to sell, or commissions to be generated. I don't agree with everything Warren Buffett preaches, but you can't say that in a world where the average holding time for a common stock is less than a few minutes (thanks to HFT), his message has been completely consistent and doesn't need any annual revision... the secret is that there is no secret. In fact, I'm sure that if you asked him how he got rich, he would just say "go read The Intelligent Investor" rather than try to sell anything.

[Paul]

Adopt these five principles perfectly and you will be successful in whatever field your in.

Read them a few years back in 2011 after buying the Millionaire Fast Lane kindle eBook, adopted the principles to my current main income stream and have now a very comfortable income stream and working hours.  

#1: The Commandment of Control.
As an entrepreneur, you want to control your business whereas no one entity can put you into bankruptcy. For example, will a Google algorithm change kill your business? Will that MLM company go out of business and destroy all you worked for? Will Facebook change its Terms of Service for application calls and all of sudden you're out of business? Did that great affiliate program you've been hocking suddenly stop paying? Or change it's terms and now your ****-out-of-luck? The Commandment of Control eliminates 3rd party risks that can take down your business in one swift stroke. You can either paint your own big picture, or be a swab of paint in someone elses.

#2: The Commandment of Entry
Entrepreneurs are problem solvers. If anyone can mimic your business overnight by following a simple 1-2-3 step process, you're not solving any problems. In fact, the more difficult it is to start your business, the better the opportunity you have. The difficulty IS the opportunity. Fortunes are not made in a business you created overnight -- fortunes are made by solving problems and delivering value to the market in a strongly defended position.

#3: The Commandment of Need
Provide value. Solve a problem. Satisfy a want. Inspire someone. Make em laugh or cry. Make em healthy and vibrant. Bottomline? The market doesn't give a **** about your motives. It doesn't give a **** about your passions, your loves, or your desires to drive a Ferrari. Throw the GURU BS out the window if you want to succeed because the only thing the market wants to know is this: "What the can you do for me?". Entrepreneurs are committed to providing value, fulfilling needs, and satisfying wants because they know it attracts money.

#4: The Commandment of Time
Making money is great, but what good is it if you don't have time to spend it? Or enjoy your freedom? The Commandment of Time specifies that your business must be able to detach itself from your time. This is accomplished by creative inventions that exist separate from your time. In other words, your time is divorced from the act of sale and distribution. It could be a book, a piece of software, a website, or a product custom built and branded imported from Mexico.

#5: The Commandment of Scale
In order to generate massive wealth, you must sell massive product, and have that product detached from your time. in a quaint coffee shop you cant sell 25,000 cups of coffee a month. If you cannot sell 10,000 in one day and are limited in production and/or distribution, you will be limited in the amount of money you can earn. Examine your ceiling-- if you can touch it, you've got a scale problem. Start thinking bigger. To make millions, is to impact millions.

[vand]

56 minutes ago, Paul said:

Adopt these five principles perfectly and you will be successful in whatever field your in.

Read them a few years back in 2011 after buying the Millionaire Fast Lane kindle eBook, adopted the principles to my current main income stream and have now a very comfortable income stream and working hours.  

#1: The Commandment of Control.
As an entrepreneur, you want to control your business whereas no one entity can put you into bankruptcy. For example, will a Google algorithm change kill your business? Will that MLM company go out of business and destroy all you worked for? Will Facebook change its Terms of Service for application calls and all of sudden you're out of business? Did that great affiliate program you've been hocking suddenly stop paying? Or change it's terms and now your ****-out-of-luck? The Commandment of Control eliminates 3rd party risks that can take down your business in one swift stroke. You can either paint your own big picture, or be a swab of paint in someone elses.

#2: The Commandment of Entry
Entrepreneurs are problem solvers. If anyone can mimic your business overnight by following a simple 1-2-3 step process, you're not solving any problems. In fact, the more difficult it is to start your business, the better the opportunity you have. The difficulty IS the opportunity. Fortunes are not made in a business you created overnight -- fortunes are made by solving problems and delivering value to the market in a strongly defended position.

#3: The Commandment of Need
Provide value. Solve a problem. Satisfy a want. Inspire someone. Make em laugh or cry. Make em healthy and vibrant. Bottomline? The market doesn't give a **** about your motives. It doesn't give a **** about your passions, your loves, or your desires to drive a Ferrari. Throw the GURU BS out the window if you want to succeed because the only thing the market wants to know is this: "What the can you do for me?". Entrepreneurs are committed to providing value, fulfilling needs, and satisfying wants because they know it attracts money.

#4: The Commandment of Time
Making money is great, but what good is it if you don't have time to spend it? Or enjoy your freedom? The Commandment of Time specifies that your business must be able to detach itself from your time. This is accomplished by creative inventions that exist separate from your time. In other words, your time is divorced from the act of sale and distribution. It could be a book, a piece of software, a website, or a product custom built and branded imported from Mexico.

#5: The Commandment of Scale
In order to generate massive wealth, you must sell massive product, and have that product detached from your time. in a quaint coffee shop you cant sell 25,000 cups of coffee a month. If you cannot sell 10,000 in one day and are limited in production and/or distribution, you will be limited in the amount of money you can earn. Examine your ceiling-- if you can touch it, you've got a scale problem. Start thinking bigger. To make millions, is to impact millions.

But not everyone is an entrepreneur. In fact, most people are not entrepreneurs. They are happy to provide an honest day's work and get paid for what their labour is worth, but taking on business risk is not something that they are cut out for. They would rather work for someone else. Maybe they won't provide an great idea and make a million quid off of it, but they are happy to provide value for value, and that is a completely understandable position. The idea of savings, and accumulating wealth and providing security to your children and family in the future should not be one that is only open to those willing to take on business risk.

[vand]

I would also add on a personal level that the greatest thing you can do to building long term wealth is to understand that you must consistently live within your means (spend less than you earn, save & invest the difference) and to have other interests that are completely outside the realm of finance and business and cost you nothing (or very little) to pursue but which give you back some tremendous sense of self-esteem.  After all, the idea of wealth is relative to each of us, and if you are used to living on £1m a year then your idea of wealth is different to someone on £20k/year.

That can be something as simple as gardening, or walking and enjoying the countryside. I have personally done a lot of running and endurance sports in the last few years which have been incredibly life-enhancing. For all the money that I make every month, my own personal life highlights have been when I have crossed the line in some particularly challenging endurance races - feelings that I will remember for all my life. I have also found that the life lessons it teaches are incredibly valuable - eg, people often overestimate what they can do in a day or a month, but underestimate what they can do with consistent application over 1-2 years... never mind 10-20 year. I daresay that I have surprised a few of my friends with what I have managed to accomplish, but it didn't about come about in a single day. It comes from educating oneself, doing what you know needs to be done, and doing it consistently. 

[Paul]

On going education through life 

Invest in as much of yourself as you can, you are your own biggest asset by far

You will never get a better return on life than when you truly invest in yourself.

Stay healthy on all three planes: mind, body, spirit.

You only get one mind and one body. And it’s got to last a lifetime. 
Now, it’s very easy to let them ride for many years. 
But if you don’t take care of that mind and that body, they’ll be a wreck forty years later, just like the car would be unmaintained

Be mindful about improving yourself, ongoing & forever
Never stop learning.
Most people think that real learning ends when school is over but they are selling themselves way short, it just starts. 

Lose getting told what you have to learn in school in your teens and follow what interest you or your passions 
Life should be about continuous learning, and there are many ways for you to do this:
* Attend conferences, seminars, and meet-ups, silver based precious metals forums
* Take a free online courses.
* Talk to people and ask them questions (listen more than you talk).
* Research new something you are interested in.
* YouTube is perfect for learning not just watching cats doing funny things
* Try to read a book every few days/week
* Learns the basics of a new new language or revisit those you learnt at school

 

[KDave]

@vand Thanks for posting the link to that book it is excellent.

[ApisMellifera]

Interesting reads from everyone and great topic!  

Just want to follow up on the Robert Kiyosaki books. I delved into Robert's Kiyosaki's books and tracked what he was doing for a fair bit. I personally think that his Rich Dad / Poor dad book is an updated story of 'personal finance' and see it as a modern day version of G.S Clason - Richest Man of Babylon.

Robert is also huge stacker and got me into gold/silver,

Michael Maloney's book 'Guide to Investing in Gold and Silver' earlier releases was supported and endorsed by Robert, which got me looking into gold and silver. So you could perhaps see both gents from the same school but I think that both books have tonnes of tips and advice.

Like many of us here on the forum, Robert is also constantly researching, a student of markets and his main mission is to increase people's financial literacy/understanding. He also warns people about the many malinvestments and you could call him one of the modern day 'doom and gloomers' but what he really wants to teach is how to be prepared for it.

From what I understand is that Robert 'lost' some of the rights of Rich Dad brand franchise with a (dodgy) partner, which has been running overly priced "Rich Dad' courses under a company called Tigrent Learning. I think he mentioned that on one of his radio shows. Is that his works? ..or could be the mastermind behind it all !?  Perhaps?

... That remains to be seen but I think he has done his studies and due diligence (still to this day). He is now passing on his knowledge in the same methods described in the Richest Man of Babylon.

I also think there is method to his madness, one of Robert motto is that repetition is one of best learning tools, so I guess it is a hallmark of his 'brand'.

However I am still keeping a watch full eye on the guy because he is buddies with D.Trump! lol. Altho he does mention that he doesn't like some of Trumps wordings. Both these gents totally understands workings the modern day of herd mentality yet Kiyosaki main focus is still education and wants to educate/uplift people out of poverty, if they want to.

Ok. that's my quarter oz for today...

[KDave]

Exactly Apis I have read those books and my take away was the same. It is him trying to teach you a mindset, which is arguably the most important thing. Repetition is the key to the mind, which is why so many religions and cults use it lol. 

I don't care about the motivations behind him passing on the information - 99% of the time they are doing it to make them money, not to make you money. When you keep that in mind with everything you read then every persons opinion becomes valuable and you are far less likely to fall into the trap of thinking they have the answer to it all, which usually ends with being the sheep that gets skinned. Take peoples advice, then act on your own. 

[Pipers]

Just caught up with this interesting topic, IMO making money wealth (which basically what the thread is about) can be split into various categories from basic labour to skilled to product owners to Land owners to copyright owners (this includes digital).  

Read all the books you want most are inspirational reads, most certainly will make the author money and not the reader any.  Just spend a few minutes thinking about it why would anybody writing a book that makes other people rich and the author poorer? No, more likely it goes :- Hey I have a swell idea how to make money, its not that hard work and I'm going to share it with you!! I will give you a hard luck story of how I use to work hard for someone else (this is what most people do) I did not earn very much money and did not have much spare time ETC.  

You get the picture, sorry to say if you read a book that has this in its a con you have been had it's a tried and tested hook!!!           

[vand]

It's absolutely about developing a mindset, but it's also about educating yourself and knowing your reasons in your own mind. Investment and finance are greatly about ego which is a problem when it comes to sharing ideas, because when you think that a particular investment is the best one for you, you are pitching all your knowledge and judgement against someone who holds a different view.  They're wrong and you're right (in your mind, at least). Different viewpoints are what makes a market.

I greatly believe that people who think "I don't make enough money to save or invest" will never make enough money to save & invest, for no matter how much they earn they will consume it all.  In my field of work (IT) I have friends who go contracting for 3-4 times what I make in my steady permanent position, and yet they are still in perpetual debt and at the end of each month it all seems to disappear and still they seem no better off than me. They do not take the advice of the Richest Man In Babylon - "Pay yourself at least a tenth of what you earn."

Research has shows that lottery winners and lucky benefactors very rarely preserve their newly gained wealth, much less build on it. Large family trust funds and inheritances are generally lost within a generation as the children never had to earn that money, so they never build up the mindset required to keep it. It probably works against them, knowing that they will run into a windfall on their 18th birthday, or whatever. I personally know someone who basically spent an entire million quid's worth of inheritence by his mid 20s. Lovely bloke, mind.

 

cheers,

[whittington2308]

On 6/23/2014 at 17:43, a_a said:

I have always tried to make my hobbies make money for me - I have got a couple of recent ebay coin bargains which will be going straight back on there once they arrive for a 100% flip - but never had the kind of hobby that I could turn into a full blown business.

 

On that, what i have found is looking at people who have hobby type jobs and make a living seem mostly unplanned.

I too have thought "i like this, how can i make money from it?" and every hobby has got entrepreneurs that seem to be raking it in and living the dream, and the difference appears to me is that where i had many hobbies i would float around in, (photography, running, computers, homebrew, PM's, photoshop, soap making??) i was never really buzzed about any (maybe running but more on that later), but all i considered as a business (i was a painter and decorator). wouldn't it be nice to take a few pictures of rock stars and go touring around or my own moonshine still like lawless! 

I also had a girlfriend who liked country stuff, liked hawks. We bought a hawk (wow maybe i could do hawking with her for a living!) until i was climbing a tree in the rain poking the thing with a stick for 3 hours so it would come back and i could go home. But all that didn't faze her she plodded on working in a supermarket. run back, fly the hawk.

she literally loved everything about it. She started mixing more in the circles of other hawkers, swapping advice building contacts meetings, events ect ect. she was really buzzing for all things hawk. by this time i was onto trying to become a concert pianist (soon gave up).

Fast forward a few years, she is rubbing shoulders with the shakes of dubai, running breeding programs while saving money for her own business and is some what subject matter expert on import export of the importation of birds and such like (the story is still developing, time will tell)

As for me, i ran a bit, ran a bit more... met with other runners ran even more.... went to the gym... got generally fit and joined the Royal Marines, (i'm currently getting a paragliding licence so maybe i will be champion paraglider, get sponsored by redbull... or not...)

 

Long way of saying, you cant predict the future but you can try steer it the best you can. 

And don't beat yourself up, enjoy hobbies as hobbies... you might get good at it and who knows where that could lead?

Sorry about any grammar, this is literally the longest thing i have wrote since secondary school .

[HelpingHands]

Was that tree here?

 

 

[whittington2308]

think it was this one 

[sovereignsteve]

I don't think it's a good idea to develop your hobby into a business. I've known a few people who have done exactly that and found the pressures of trying to make a living out of it destroyed any enjoyment they originally gained from their hobby.

[a_a]

That post was almost 2 years ago

I am about to start a business which is not a hobby but something I have enjoyed in the past. Pretty low cost start up, and can sell/keep the gear if it doesn't work out. I have other simple, low-cost business ideas if it fails, not a problem.

Whittington I get what you mean about trying to steer your destiny, I have stopped seeing happiness/success as a destination, imposing deadlines on myself etc, being worried about failure. I will try a few things and see what happens

 

[Pipers]

There is nothing wrong in trying and failing, just get back up and start again.  Remember to take advantage of all the government start up allowances if you qualify.