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Pampfan

Got MilK!

33 posts in this topic

Well, 

I thought I would start a new thread about the sour taste I got in my mouth this morning when I pulled out an old box of graded coins from 3 years ago and saw that milk had been spilled.  Spilled on a graded 1 oz Silver Austrian Philharmonic. I know that milk spotting is rampant throughout silver coinage but it just pisses me off that the big mints just can't fix the problem already.  Especially when a coin has been graded a MS70 by ANACS (I know a tier 2 company but encapsulated anyway)  This is probably the main reason I stick to gold products, bars and graded coins.  

Anyway, Here are the pics - IMG_5186.JPGIMG_5184.JPGIMG_5183.JPG 

 

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Unfortunately not first and not last case. We can only watch as our collections loose value because mints don't care what will become of their product after it's sold. They would fix it promptly if that happen's immediately after minting and they have problem to sell flawed product.

spots01.jpg

spots02.jpg

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.. This is the reason I dont grade Silver... The slabs are in my opinion not as air tight as some manufacturers original capsules, the graders open the capsules, exposing the contaminants to air, causing reactions to start, pop them in a slab that isnt airtight and hey presto Milk spots. Of course no contaminants would also prevent this.

All of course in my opinion!

Cheers

George likes this

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Its a shame when this happens - some mints are better than others and it can be very frustrating!

I have a solution to unslabbed coins - but you wouldnt want to get them graded afterwards - but its a good method to making general bullion a bit more eyecatching and perhaps easier to sell in the future for more than spot!

 

Pampfan, Piggybank and NezBomB007 like this

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After reading about this I decided to have a look at my silver coins and one my Britannia 2016 has milk spots but the rest seem fine, I have 10 maples from 2013 that are all fine but a coin nearly a year old already has them, after reading on here seems such a hit and a miss to get theses and makes me not want to buy silver coins that's prone to this for now on.

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1 hour ago, Ojay45 said:

After reading about this I decided to have a look at my silver coins and one my Britannia 2016 has milk spots but the rest seem fine, I have 10 maples from 2013 that are all fine but a coin nearly a year old already has them, after reading on here seems such a hit and a miss to get theses and makes me not want to buy silver coins that's prone to this for now on.

Are you sure they are genuine!? :P

Edited by MikeOxlong
fehk2001 likes this

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I am not convinced that milk spots develop because they are exposed to air so worrying about sealed caps etc is a waste of time.
When a coin is minted and the planchet has been subjected to a chemical agent that has not been perfectly rinsed away then it resides on the surface.
Minute drops or splashes embedded on the surface will appear instantly as milk spots or over time regardless of how the coin is stored.
Your coin is born with or without "silver pox" and as far as grading is concerned I thought they looked for the depth & centration of the press and scratch/dig rather than if it shows the odd cosmetic spot. I too would be thoroughly pissed if I had paid a small fortune for an MS-70 and it turned sour.

Kman and garthy like this

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On 12/17/2016 at 10:49, Pete said:

I am not convinced that milk spots develop because they are exposed to air so worrying about sealed caps etc is a waste of time.
When a coin is minted and the planchet has been subjected to a chemical agent that has not been perfectly rinsed away then it resides on the surface.
Minute drops or splashes embedded on the surface will appear instantly as milk spots or over time regardless of how the coin is stored.
Your coin is born with or without "silver pox" and as far as grading is concerned I thought they looked for the depth & centration of the press and scratch/dig rather than if it shows the odd cosmetic spot. I too would be thoroughly pissed if I had paid a small fortune for an MS-70 and it turned sour.

Agreed - I have stored many coins in various holders - including NGC and PCGS holders and spots did develop regardless of the storage method - Additionally I have seen many valuable graded ms70 american eagle coins being sold on ebay which developed spots in the holder.  The issue lies in the chemical cleaning and baking process of the blanks.

That leads me to a great saying in the US - Buy the coin and not the grade on the holder.

I hate that some of my coins are lactose intolerant. :)

  

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The only way to get past this problem is for people to stop buying .999 silver coins and insisting on mints going back to good old sterling or Britannia silver. Never had any milk problems with them and they were far tougher too, so they could strike nice shiny backgrounds without having to resort to these awful stippled backgrounds.

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I agree.  Although I don't have any nice 925 silver I can honestly say that the 2016 Brits I bought a year ago are pretty much all milked along with the queens beast I have.  Disappointing because I went to quite some effort to store them in a good stable environment to prevent tarnish etc and now I find milk spots instead.  Just got my Brits out of storage and found milk spots on them.  The Ozzy mint stuff I have still has no spots which is nice.  All of my coins are stored in airtite boxes inside anti tarnish bags so I don't see how I could have gone to more care other than using argon in the airtite boxes!!  (did consider it hehehe)   Sounds like the 999 stuff is more prone to milking than the old sterling or Britannia stuff but doesn't explain why the Perth mint stuff I have is still in perfect condition compared to the UK stuff.  This is after a year of storage and having a look today.

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Sov Steve,  Bizarrely, the few non gov mint rounds I have are all still perfect.  I have a few proof rounds and they are still perfect.  No milk on them.  One could think that perhaps they are not really 999 silver but I don't think so.  Have tested one with an SG test and it come out perfect so I think its more than that.  My only milky coins are from the UK. 

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1 minute ago, silversky said:

Sov Steve,  Bizarrely, the few non gov mint rounds I have are all still perfect.  I have a few proof rounds and they are still perfect.  No milk on them.  One could think that perhaps they are not really 999 silver but I don't think so.  Have tested one with an SG test and it come out perfect so I think its more than that.  My only milky coins are from the UK. 

It does come down to the production process in some way. As you say, Uk and most definitely RCM are the worst culprits. Perth are the best but not entirely free. I remember reading that they were actively researching the problem as they were affected to some degree. Whether they'll release their findings or just apply remedies to their products remains to be seen.

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What seems amazing to me is that some of the non gov mint rounds that are out there in the states don't seem to suffer this.  Most of the rounds I have bought are proof rounds and they are still immaculate.  It beggars belief that a small firm minting specialist rounds for fun can have a better quality control than a government backed mint.  Maybe it's to do with demand and throughput? less attention to detail because of quantity? who knows, but I can certainly say that I have at least three rounds and proofs from different independent mints in the USA and they are all still immaculate.  Even some cheesy fun rounds I bought are still proof like!!!  Crazy.  I wonder where the independents are getting their planchets from and how they are treating them.  I know the perth mint advertises supply of planchets so maybe that is where they are getting them from??  After all, the Perth mint doesn't seem to have a big problem with this as far as I can see.  Maybe the little mints have a more thorough washing process before baking?  It's all a bit weird to have independent mints products exceeding government products in terms of milk.

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On 12/17/2016 at 15:49, Pete said:

I am not convinced that milk spots develop because they are exposed to air so worrying about sealed caps etc is a waste of time.
When a coin is minted and the planchet has been subjected to a chemical agent that has not been perfectly rinsed away then it resides on the surface.
Minute drops or splashes embedded on the surface will appear instantly as milk spots or over time regardless of how the coin is stored.
Your coin is born with or without "silver pox" and as far as grading is concerned I thought they looked for the depth & centration of the press and scratch/dig rather than if it shows the odd cosmetic spot. I too would be thoroughly pissed if I had paid a small fortune for an MS-70 and it turned sour.

If this is true, how long after a coin is minted should you expect to see milk spots? if it is destined to milk spot

Is there a time period your'e more likely to be safe after? months/years?

I have a 2014 proof Britannia that is perfect atm, is that any less likely now to develop milk spots since its been about 2 years? 

 

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I have only been Stacking/Collecting for just over a year, and have not had any issues yet. I have coins, rounds, and bars from most of the major world mints. I have seen how the coins are minted, and I wonder, if you purchase a full tube that has been struck from a contaminated planchet, and they are placed in the tube in the order they come out of the press, then you would have to assume that most of the tube will turn sour, at approx the same time?

I say I have been lucky. I store all my silver with copious amounts of Silica-Gel, and 3M Anti tarnish strips, all of which I replace on a regular basis. I  also use airtight peli cases (Designed for cameras) before placing them in the safe.

My personal opinion is this. I compare the chances of getting "Milk" at about the same as the chance of getting a bad "Kick" at Snooker. The more you play, the greater the chance.....

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1 hour ago, TRICKYXXX said:

I have only been Stacking/Collecting for just over a year, and have not had any issues yet. I have coins, rounds, and bars from most of the major world mints. I have seen how the coins are minted, and I wonder, if you purchase a full tube that has been struck from a contaminated planchet, and they are placed in the tube in the order they come out of the press, then you would have to assume that most of the tube will turn sour, at approx the same time?

I say I have been lucky. I store all my silver with copious amounts of Silica-Gel, and 3M Anti tarnish strips, all of which I replace on a regular basis. I  also use airtight peli cases (Designed for cameras) before placing them in the safe.

My personal opinion is this. I compare the chances of getting "Milk" at about the same as the chance of getting a bad "Kick" at Snooker. The more you play, the greater the chance.....

 

It might be interesting if someone calculated some sort of probability curve that showed how likely your coin is to developing milkspots depending on how long it has already gone without doing do. Generally, I wouldn't be very confident that apparently good coins minted in within the last 12-24 months still couldn't develop milkspots.

Perth mint stuff seems to hold up pretty well (except the Kangaroos), so I find myself buying more and more of their stuff.

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19 hours ago, silversky said:

What seems amazing to me is that some of the non gov mint rounds that are out there in the states don't seem to suffer this. 

That's true I have SBSS rounds bought back in 2012/13 that are still in perfect condition, actually I've never heard of one having spots, i believe they were made by the mulligan mint, I mean if they can produce coins that don't spot surely the big government mints can. 

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Just received a roll of the new queens beast griffin silver coins - and to my dismay I see haziness on three of the coins already.  The rest have no apparent spots.  

I will put the coins back in the roll, (which by the way the royal mint really has cheaped out on, adding in a piece of tissue paper and some peanut packing material in order for the coins not to move around in transport.  Probably it is the same holder for their 25 coin roll silver brits, A real pain in the $&@ if you ask me.  I of course have solved this problem by adding in 4 more 2 oz coins to make the roll a 28 ounce roll, and the coins are now secure without any movement at all.) and report back in 6 months. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Pampfan said:

Just received a roll of the new queens beast griffin silver coins - and to my dismay I see haziness on three of the coins already.  The rest have no apparent spots.  

I will put the coins back in the roll, (which by the way the royal mint really has cheaped out on, adding in a piece of tissue paper and some peanut packing material in order for the coins not to move around in transport.  Probably it is the same holder for their 25 coin roll silver brits, A real pain in the $&@ if you ask me.  I of course have solved this problem by adding in 4 more 2 oz coins to make the roll a 28 ounce roll, and the coins are now secure without any movement at all.) and report back in 6 months. 

 

I am no expert BUT I suggest you remove the peanut polystyrene bean as I assume, long term, there could be a chemical in the plastic that could spoil a coin or two.
Ditto with the tissue paper as bleaching / whitening agents could come out of the paper.  Maybe a pessimist here, but I always remove this type of packing. I believe there are paper products or some plastics that are guaranteed to be inert over the years. Unless you are shaking the tubes the packing is unnecessary.

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I also removed the peanut foam packaging from my QB lion tube because who knows whether that has pvc in it that could cause issues with tarnish etc.  I replaced it with the inners from the special foam disks that are made to hold coins inside a capsule. Ok that didn't make much sense but what I mean is when you buy capsules that are designed for holding smaller coins that have a ring of a special coin safe foamy material that won't harm them there is an inner circle that you could throw away.  Well, I kept that inner stuff from the box of ten that I ordered and I used it as packing on the bottom and the top of my tube of QB's to keep them together without any rattling potentially damaging them.

Milk seems to be a modern problem and who knows what the answer is.  Bit depressing really after trying to take as much care as I can.  Tarnish is an age old problem and can be prevented by use of anti tarnish strips or bags.  Physical damage from rattling can be prevented by using the coin neutral inners as spacers to hold things together so there's no movement in the tube.

It's the best I can do without going crazy so that's what I've done and revisit next year and hope for the best.

 

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14 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

Look what i just found ! :/ 

back to the royal mint it goes 👋

 

Hard to tell from the pics, is the mark by the 1? 

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