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To grade or not to grade, that is the question!


DavePanda

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I have read some comments re grading,I am not sure if this has been discussed at much length as its own topic, however as Paul says it is quiet around here, so I thought I would get the ball rolling..

 

As per title, I would be very interested to hear peoples opinions....Some random discussion points to start this off:

 

Is it worth getting modern bullion Silver coins graded, I am thinking Kooks, Brits, Lunars etc?

What do people think re the 2 main grading companies? Is one more desirable than the other? Reports recently suggest that PCGS has the better capsule.

Has anyone ever had Silver coins returned that were milkspot free with milkspots after grading? This has been reported on other forums.

What about the fancy new labels on some coins, "First strike" etc?

Anyone ever used the conservation service that is associated with NGC? (However I believe they may have recently split their relationship)

Should coin grading revert back to primarily Gold coins, is it all just a con, based on someones subjective opinions?

Does anyone believe that the bigger dealers may get the chance to look through their coins, cherry pick, get those graded, then sell the rest to an unsuspecting public (I am thinking US dealers here?)

etc etc.....

 

A few questions that I personally would love peoples opinion on (I would be especially very grateful for Numistackers opinion)

With some of the very low mintage Pandas recently issued, I am thinking the Baby Pandas/Nanjing 2 lovely Pandas and others, is it possible that we get to the stage that the more coins that are graded then numerically, the ungraded ones, then become the rarer ones,consequently becoming the more desired/valued? 

With the risk of spotting that has been discussed on other forums after removing from original capsules, is it worth NOT grading, are the risks too high? Or are they balanced with the possibility of getting a high grade?

Once again regarding Chinese coins, Chinese collectors would I believe, prefer their coins in original condition, US prefer graded, I think European is a bit of a mix, with these rare Pandas already mentioned, would it be better to not Grade on the theory that better future returns would come from the Chinese market?

 

Thanks for your thoughts

 

Dave

 

 

 

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If your going to think you will re-coup the grading fee's and extra postage too-ing an fro-ing and graded is what you like then go ahead, if your going for the quick flip original is best.

Also how you store your PM's can decide how, like in a tray they look rather nice so ungraded is cool, but if you have one of those NGC slab box's you will be sorley temtpted to fill it.

I personaly would not grade anything, it seems like more expense to me, but i would buy one if it was a good price and looked nice.

Also it depends where you live too, USA grade all day long and twice on Sunday's .U.K. Nah, whats the point.  You have to think will i get my money back after all the add on's and E-bay/PayPal fee's, plus original price and P&P.

 

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  I looked at the pricing trends of these over time and decided there is money to be made holding some of these as a bit of stack diversity. I weighed up the pros and cons of grading modern bullion and I decided I would be better off just buying MS70 or PF70 coins already graded by someone else rather than sending loads of my own away and ending up with dozens of MS68s or 69's, the fees involved and what I could recoup just made it seem like the best way to go about it.  I bide my time and try to pick up at the right price  small mintage 50,000 to 100,000 stuff like the Tokelau lunars, African Lions, Congo gorillas etc as well as Kooks and Pandas which always do well.  The Fiji Iguana is on my list as one to look out for in the future.

Only time will tell if I've made the correct decision but I saw an article somewhere on the web saying if you had bought MS70 First Strike slabbed US Silver Eagles at one a year every time one came out instead of just a standard bullion coin you would have seen thousands of dollars more profit by now so I'm hoping a long term hold approach on less common coins will work in the same respect given a reasonably long term hold.

 

Edit - Of course spotting and tarnishing is a concern as I am well aware this can happen inside the capsule.

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10 minutes ago, Scuzzle said:

  I looked at the pricing trends of these over time and decided there is money to be made holding some of these as a bit of stack diversity. I weighed up the pros and cons of grading modern bullion and I decided I would be better off just buying MS70 or PF70 coins already graded by someone else rather than sending loads of my own away and ending up with dozens of MS68s or 69's, the fees involved and what I could recoup just made it seem like the best way to go about it.  I bide my time and try to pick up at the right price  small mintage 50,000 to 100,000 stuff like the Tokelau lunars, African Lions, Congo gorillas etc as well as Kooks and Pandas which always do well.  The Fiji Iguana is on my list as one to look out for in the future.

Only time will tell if I've made the correct decision but I saw an article somewhere on the web saying if you had bought MS70 First Strike slabbed US Silver Eagles at one a year every time one came out instead of just a standard bullion coin you would have seen thousands of dollars more profit by now so I'm hoping a long term hold approach on less common coins will work in the same respect given a reasonably long term hold.

 

Edit - Of course spotting and tarnishing is a concern as I am well aware this can happen inside the capsule.

Wow, now that is most interesting, many ideas that I had not considered and the article reference is one I shall seek out.

Good luck with the strategy, seems well thought out, thanks for sharing

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My view is to look at the population reports and also MCM adverts. Anything that Mcm carry is better bought from Mcm at 70 or possibly not bought at all. I am not at all pro grading just anything at all and in my view 90% of moderns are better bought at 70 or not bought at all.

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11 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

My view is to look at the population reports and also MCM adverts. Anything that Mcm carry is better bought from Mcm at 70 or possibly not bought at all. I am not at all pro grading just anything at all and in my view 90% of moderns are better bought at 70 or not bought at all.

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That in a nutshell was my opinion before I started this discussion point, however the point about the ASEs certainly gives food for thought..

I would value your opinion if you dont mind giving it, re the questions on the Chinese coins.

Thanks

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My view is the low volume coins are no interest to MCM as they can't profit. I always grade these coins as this preserves them for the future and makes them more attractive to western buyers given distrust in the Chinese.

Anything with less than 400 coins in existence I would always grade and I would expect to see 50% graded. This may even be higher for mintages of 99 or less.

The best time to buy ms70 is just after the 500 bulk coins have come back from NGC to the dealers.

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I dont think I will ever send in an OMP for grading, at least not any older

Regarding Pandas, you can still get a 2010 - 2016 MS70 for decent money

It is not worth my time or money to grade newer than 2006, 2007

I have a full set ungraded (Thanks to Davepanda  :-) )

And are now filling up a set with NGC graded

I am going for MS69 1989 - 2006, and MS70 from 2007

When the set is full, I go back and buy older MS70

I think for pandas NGC is bigger, easier to find anyway

 

 

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8 hours ago, Numistacker said:

My view is the low volume coins are no interest to MCM as they can't profit. I always grade these coins as this preserves them for the future and makes them more attractive to western buyers given distrust in the Chinese.

Anything with less than 400 coins in existence I would always grade and I would expect to see 50% graded. This may even be higher for mintages of 99 or less.

The best time to buy ms70 is just after the 500 bulk coins have come back from NGC to the dealers.

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Mmmm, food for thought on the distrust issue, Very interesting on the grading idea

1 hour ago, Bosse68 said:

I dont think I will ever send in an OMP for grading, at least not any older

Regarding Pandas, you can still get a 2010 - 2016 MS70 for decent money

It is not worth my time or money to grade newer than 2006, 2007

I have a full set ungraded (Thanks to Davepanda  :-) )

And are now filling up a set with NGC graded

I am going for MS69 1989 - 2006, and MS70 from 2007

When the set is full, I go back and buy older MS70

I think for pandas NGC is bigger, easier to find anyway

 

 

You have a great collection now Bosse, it looks like it is going to get even better!  I have concentrated on getting the set with OMP, although a little plastic case could theoretically be copied, however the cases that are generally available are obvious fakes containing fake coins, I have seen one of the most highly regarded dealers in China reseal coins in a sheet of 10 2009s with original seals, this is although stated on the listing in my mind deceitful and disappointing.

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I went for a cheap Chinese faux leather holder for mine, I think they are about £14 inc. postage. Managed to fill one with NGC slabs and just ordered a second one to house the 10x PCGS slabs with the intention to fill that and I'm now that I've just bought an ANACS Kook from Bosse I'm considering buying another one to try to fill that with ANACS Kooks over time as they are far cheaper than the NGC or PCGS slabbed Kooks.

 

IMG20160810185658.jpg

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1 hour ago, SilverPirate said:

The slabs do look nice in one of those slab folders, any one got a picture in there files to put up?

This type of folder?

2016-08-10 18.29.22.jpg

2016-08-10 18.29.17.jpg

I received some Mylar coin flips today on the off chance that I get coins graded in the future.  Reading the instruction of the back of the flip is says that they can be heat sealed so I gave it a go.  I ordered a handmade Panda box over the weekend which I'm going to use to hold OMP gold pandas and this has given me the idea to seal the pouches up in these flips to add a layer of protection to them.  A definite a must for any pouches which are split/cracked/opened.

2016-08-10 18.50.55.jpg

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One of the upside with NGC graded coins id the register option

http://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/public_sets.aspx?CategoryID=47&sets=world

Here you can chose what you want to look at

http://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/public_sets.aspx?CategoryID=47&SetTypeID=4570&sets=world

Here are one of thr straight collections, only one each year

http://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/public_sets.aspx?CategoryID=47&SetTypeID=767&sets=world

And last graded panda 1989 to present with almost all variates, I have a few that are not approved yet

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One thing that I am not keen on is that the slabs themselves seem to be all manner of shades of white. Are they prone to fading, or is it just different colours over the years? I must say I think the black slabs look way nicer, and can look amazing against some of the ultra cameo coins.

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I didn't know those plastic cases were worth anything and threw the last one I got free with two graded sets of silver quarters out because I was trying to minimise the space they took up by just stacking them on a shelf in the cheaper safe.

I don't buy that many slabbed coins as I have heard they have been copied fairly decently and you have no way of testing the coin inside.

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I didn't know those plastic cases were worth anything and threw the last one I got free with two graded sets of silver quarters out because I was trying to minimise the space they took up by just stacking them on a shelf in the cheaper safe.

I don't buy that many slabbed coins as I have heard they have been copied fairly decently and you have no way of testing the coin inside.

The chance of getting one of those counterfeit slabs is very remote if you buy from good sources. Next time you are throwing out send them in my direction.

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