Advice how to allocate £3000/4000 for teenage son

[Paul]

Alternatively, I see most people in society these days will instead do this  

"If you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. If you give him a fishing rod, he'll break it up for firewood. Or swap it for a fish."

I would personally try to get your child to be a gold bug. You can make a nice start stack with £3000-£4000

Do the maths on a soverign a month for your working life.

For the sake of easy maths, 1 gold soverign a month = £200

Gold investment of choice here is full or half gold sovereign (7.32g/3.66g fine gold).  
Current prices you are looking at around £200 / £100

Source a local dealer, where you can buy regular and often each month over the counter with cash. 

No bank statement Bullion Company entries, just a £200/£100 'normal' ATM cash withdrawal the day after pay day.  

Hide your gold away, dont keep it in the house you share with your girlfriend or wife.

Tell nobody of your gold stacks whereabouts.

No paper trail - No problems

Buy just one full sovereign a month for your entire working life from 18 to 65

(x12) sovereigns per year,  multiple this by x47 working years = gets x564 stored sovereigns,

x7.32g = 4,128.48g / 4.128kg of gold or @ based on today's sovereign price of £200 = £112,800 stacked and saved / nest-egged without really trying

Assets that no money grabbing trollop can hoover up half of in divorce in cash and prizes ! WINNING !

Plant the seed of saving and paying yourself first, feel and hold hold

Far better than gifting your son cash educate him with knowledge 

The ancient aztecs used to refer to gold as the sweat of the sun, see it as your reward for the sweat broken in indentured time doing a job and that is your just reward

I was personally never gifted a penny from my parents in way of help or foot on the ladder, it wasn't there to give anyway

I didnt expect anything from them either but has not failed me in any way, ive worked hard, amassed a decent chunk of change, now in late 30s I can work as and when i choose, most of my time is my own - gold & silver is just a tiny part of that.

Educate your son - REAL learning starts the minute you LEAVE school, and you should never stop learning

 

[TheGoldSovereign]

@grace2much If it was me i would go for 1oz tubes of britannias. The 2016 seem to be really well made coins compared to some of the previous years, they are divisible and therefore easier to sell in the future. They can also be picked up for 13quid.... (not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but buy VAT free from europe whilst we're still in :D)

I've based my 2pence on your "investment" purpose, buying closest to spot therefore is the most important here, couple that with government issued coins is in my opinion the best thing to do. Maples = not right now due to spotting, Eagles = meh, if you like :). Brits = I'm guessing you live in britain, so you'll have capital gains advantages buying them.

 

edit: As for all the post from people shooting you down, its your decision, your child, do what you want. As for gold/silver, my opinion is that silver has the most upside potential currently, though as with any portfolio, diversification is your best bet   

[grace2much]

25 minutes ago, Scuzzle said:

Ultimately if you are selling on the spot price then it's just a case of silver is silver, all the government minted coins give a guarantee of purity, weight and quality, if one is £12 an ounce and another is £14 then if spot ever hits £30 an ounce all you are achieving by buying the more expensive one is costing yourself £2 an ounce in potential profit.  However the "experts" do say to specialise in whatever the native coin of your own country is so it would be Britannias however if something like a Maple or an Australian Kangaroo was a £1 or two cheaper then I would have no hesitation in having these instead.

It's entirely different when it comes to the semi numismatic stuff but just taking bullion then it's just what you can get at the best price IMO.

As said it comes down to your exit strategy, I have no problem selling some of my stack on Ebay but I don't want to be listing hundreds of individual auctions so I would reserve this for the semi numismatic stuff only, if spot were to go to a nice high price I would happily just take my entire box of cheap bullion to get weighed in just for spot price even though I paid slightly more initially for the privillige of getting my ounce of silver stamped into a coin shape.

 

All makes complete common sense so thats me sorted on the the spot selling price/bang for buck. And this gels with my exit strategy at the right spot price i will just off load it.  Just need to consider the cgt implications long term if the stack grows then as you mentioned the Britannica has a possible advantage depending on how much i would look to sell per tax year.  

So if I can get a better oz to £ ratio with a larger 10oz or 1kilo coin then I assume it makes better financial sense to go with it rather than lots of 1oz coins.  I suppose the only disadvantage the larger coins have is you can't sell in smaller increments.

[Scuzzle]

The larger coins do suffer from lack of divisibility but so far I've made more selling 1 kilo and 10 oz coins on Ebay  than if I sold a tube of Britannias so I'm happy to stick with accumulating these.  The kilo coins make more sense to me than buying a kilo bar, for a start they are cheaper, nicer to look at and fit into collectors needs more than a modern bullion bar.

[grace2much]

54 minutes ago, Paul said:

Alternatively, I see most people in society these days will instead do this  

"If you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. If you give him a fishing rod, he'll break it up for firewood. Or swap it for a fish."

I would personally try to get your child to be a gold bug. You can make a nice start stack with £3000-£4000

Do the maths on a soverign a month for your working life.

For the sake of easy maths, 1 gold soverign a month = £200

Gold investment of choice here is full or half gold sovereign (7.32g/3.66g fine gold).  
Current prices you are looking at around £200 / £100

Source a local dealer, where you can buy regular and often each month over the counter with cash. 

No bank statement Bullion Company entries, just a £200/£100 'normal' ATM cash withdrawal the day after pay day.  

Hide your gold away, dont keep it in the house you share with your girlfriend or wife.

Tell nobody of your gold stacks whereabouts.

No paper trail - No problems

Buy just one full sovereign a month for your entire working life from 18 to 65

(x12) sovereigns per year,  multiple this by x47 working years = gets x564 stored sovereigns,

x7.32g = 4,128.48g / 4.128kg of gold or @ based on today's sovereign price of £200 = £112,800 stacked and saved / nest-egged without really trying

Assets that no money grabbing trollop can hoover up half of in divorce in cash and prizes ! WINNING !

Plant the seed of saving and paying yourself first, feel and hold hold

Far better than gifting your son cash educate him with knowledge 

The ancient aztecs used to refer to gold as the sweat of the sun, see it as your reward for the sweat broken in indentured time doing a job and that is your just reward

I was personally never gifted a penny from my parents in way of help or foot on the ladder, it wasn't there to give anyway

I didnt expect anything from them either but has not failed me in any way, ive worked hard, amassed a decent chunk of change, now in late 30s I can work as and when i choose, most of my time is my own - gold & silver is just a tiny part of that.

Educate your son - REAL learning starts the minute you LEAVE school, and you should never stop learning

 

thanks paul for this.  I like your maths and i will ponder this idea a lot.  I to come from a hard working class family with 5 other siblings so at 15 with zero qualifications my working life began and no handouts or inheritances, like you it was not there to give. After decades of 80 hour weeks running my own business from the age of 21 the workaholic lifestyle took its toil on me physically and mentally.  So believe me we know what hard work is.  As I mentioned before this is my sons worked for and saved money, he earned it and as he read the posts  over my shoulder he's a bit miffed at some folks thinking he got this via a silverspoon (no pun intended) as a gift.  I never mentioned gift?

Nevertheless I appreciate your wisdom here and thanks

[Roy]

@grace2much Maybe the problem was with the title?

Your teenage son worked for and saved money, he earnt it, but you his father are asking how he should allocate it?

A bit confusing mate! He sounds quite capable of making his own decisions?

Or I read it wrong?

[grace2much]

51 minutes ago, sg86 said:

@grace2much If it was me i would go for 1oz tubes of britannias. The 2016 seem to be really well made coins compared to some of the previous years, they are divisible and therefore easier to sell in the future. They can also be picked up for 13quid.... (not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but buy VAT free from europe whilst we're still in :D)

I've based my 2pence on your "investment" purpose, buying closest to spot therefore is the most important here, couple that with government issued coins is in my opinion the best thing to do. Maples = not right now due to spotting, Eagles = meh, if you like :). Brits = I'm guessing you live in britain, so you'll have capital gains advantages buying them.

 

edit: As for all the post from people shooting you down, its your decision, your child, do what you want. As for gold/silver, my opinion is that silver has the most upside potential currently, though as with any portfolio, diversification is your best bet   

sg86 where in europe do you buy the britannnias for £13-ish.  I have looked at silvertogo and goldsilver.be

[HawkHybrid]

I also vote sovereigns.

you probably need a better idea of your exit strategy. if you plan

to hold until the price goes up and then sell in bulk to dealers,

it'll make little difference the size of the coins. cgt free may be a

factor though. selling smaller items via forums/ebay requires

more time. also consider what you will do with the 'saved'

money when you sell. will you sell it all in one go to get funds

for a house purchase? will you save it to spend bit by bit for

when you hope to retire?

 

HH

[grace2much]

27 minutes ago, Roy said:

@grace2much Maybe the problem was with the title?

Your teenage son worked for and saved money, he earnt it, but you his father are asking how he should allocate it?

A bit confusing mate! He sounds quite capable of making his own decisions?

Or I read it wrong?

Roy what can I say.....nothing it seems, even though I have tried to be polite and courteous from my first post.

Your first post Roy captures your agenda....you said....." Sorry if this sounds like an attack, it's not, but I can't stand privileged kids! Grrrrr.... "     so its better if I stop interacting with you and i will leave you with the last word.

Best wishes......

[TheGoldSovereign]

1 hour ago, grace2much said:

sg86 where in europe do you buy the britannnias for £13-ish.  I have looked at silvertogo and goldsilver.be

Both of those sites have them for 13.x ?

[SilverPirate]

Spend a third on wine,

Second third on woman.

and waste the rest.

Or you could buy a shed load of Sovereigns.

Easy to store,easy to sell.

[Bigchilli]

54 minutes ago, sg86 said:

Both of those sites have them for 13.x ?

£14.57 on STG

Welcome to the site grace2much

 

[grace2much]

1 minute ago, Bigchilli said:

£14.57 on STG

Welcome to the site grace2much

 

thanks bigchilli its appreciated

[Cornishfarmer]

Im panda man, lot of people here like sovs but I don't see them as any better as money in the bank. They are easy to store and easy to sell but they are still worth spot + 1/2%.        Unless you go for the numi side.     Where as the pandas change every year and look back 10 years  and see when are worth spot + 10/20/30% .  Things may change now with the higher mintages

something else to think about

[grace2much]

3 minutes ago, Cornishfarmer said:

Im panda man, lot of people here like sovs but I don't see them as any better as money in the bank. They are easy to store and easy to sell but they are still worth spot + 1/2%.        Unless you go for the numi side.     Where as the pandas change every year and look back 10 years  and see when are worth spot + 10/20/30% .  Things may change now with the higher mintages

something else to think about

Thanks cornishfarmer, there are so many subtle shades to filter its an enjoyable puzzle. Perhaps you could answer me something i read about or heard during my youtube silver marathon.  I heard a few times about (just for the ounces generic) maples and kangaroos or maybe it was lunias (I think), being prone to milk spots or blemishes? Is that the right term? Am i right about this and if so i wonder what is the best generic 1oz choice if you where going to build these as the cheapest core coins.  Does the Britannias have a milk spot reputation or the Philharmonic.

Also how many is in a "roll"

Thanks again for your willingness to help...... 

[TheGoldSovereign]

1 hour ago, Bigchilli said:

£14.57 on STG

Welcome to the site grace2much

 

Reason to shop elsewhere then, goldsilver.be is 13.47 and europeanmint.com is 13.19 for a tube.

[grace2much]

2 minutes ago, sg86 said:

Reason to shop elsewhere then, goldsilver.be is 13.47 and europeanmint.com is 13.19 for a tube.

great price sg86 I wonder (I will email them if you don't know off the top of your head) if you can pay via a UK bank transfer like STG so no international transfer fees? But no matter thats a cracking price. I had not come across europeanmint.com on my new silver journey so far so I will have a browse now

[grace2much]

I was over at europeanmint.com and they have very keen prices. Have they a good reputation? Hope you don't mind this flood of questions? 

[sovereignsteve]

Your original post suggested to me you were hoping your son would get interested in silver for investment and perhaps from a numismatic angle also. I also think you're secretly getting into it too and developing an interest.

The first thing I would do is not buy anything, as CF suggests, but get as much information as possible on both bullion and numismatic coins and see which way you both fall.

Next, have a good look on ebay and see how much past years of semi-numismatic coins go for (coins with limited mintage numbers eg Perth Lunars, kookaburras, koalas, britannias etc) and compare these prices with the actual number of coins minted. Compare with prices for pure bullion coins eg maples, eagles, phils.

If you don't have a definite idea which way to go by then, I would suggest a modest order of the cheapest bullion and semi-numismatic coins you can get, look at them for a while and see where it takes you.

From a personal perspective; there's nothing more boring than buying a load of bullion and just storing it away for an indeterminate period waiting for the time to sell, either when you need the money or spot rises nicely. Far more interesting mixing it up a little by collecting series, buying semi-nums when cheap on issue and selling at a profit to recycle the money into more semi-nums, bullion or collectables. If selling like this doesn't interest you then fair enough, buy and hold.

IMO the most interesting aspect is collecting old coinage eg silver crowns, gold sovereigns. It introduces the concept of grade/condition/rarity/mintage/availability/collectability as well as history. There are plenty of collectors out there and I've no reason to suppose there numbers will diminish over time, so plenty of people to sell to. The interest here, as well as the pleasure of owning them, is to buy at the best price, cheaper than you can sell, so making an instant paper profit. Knowledge is amply rewarded.

At the end of the day, these coins have an intrinsic metal value so you have a backstop. It's even possible to buy rarer collectable coins for close to bullion price and so make an intant killing.

In conclusion: know as much as you can about the various options and do what you will njoy the most, unless you just want an investment to tuck away.

 

[jayboat]

I have been trying to get my 9 year old step daughter into saving lately through silver bullion. I'm telling her that if she can save enough coins by the time she is 17, she will be able to buy a car and she likes that idea.  9 is young but she knows they are worth money and takes good care of them, and i'm hoping to keep her interested enough before she starts to receive pocket money in the next year are so to use silver bullion a saving target.

The plan is:

• Get her in silver bullion by adding a new coin every 2-3 weeks 
• Encourage her to save a certain %  for silver bullion as soon as she receives money eg, pocket, birthday, xmas money ect
• Let her do her own orders and so she's getting what she likes
• Continue to educate her about saving until 17-18, by then she should be working part/full time
• Show her this when starts working full time to show how easy it is to save a million pound by retirement when you start young by compounding interest. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-1633423/Millionaire-calculator-How-long-make-1m-How-regular-savings-make-rich.html
• Help her set up bank accounts and standing orders for saving money to auto come out every week/month into her million pound retirement fund
• Shes on her own

I have a different million pound retirement plan for my step son but hes younger and his time will come. 

 

 

[ApisMellifera]

Morning,

Just want to add another video to your mega youtube list  BelangP is one of my fav youtuber. (You may have already come across him).

In this video he shares his experiences on teaching his son about savings and collecting coins etc.

I think this is a good way to teach how to save (and trade) through precious metals/coins.

 

[TheGoldSovereign]

7 hours ago, grace2much said:

I was over at europeanmint.com and they have very keen prices. Have they a good reputation? Hope you don't mind this flood of questions? 

I've been speaking with the owner and he seems like a decent enough guy, I've had a successful order delivered of pandas just last week. I paid with bitcoin

[vand]

with 3-4k you can buy a nice diversified stack which basically has something of everything. I'd be very surprised if it didn't have the desired effect of piquing your son's interest enough that he would get a taste of it and develop his own preferences. Ultimately there are no hard and fast rules, and gravitting torwards whatever coins he finds "coolest" is probably as good an arbitrator as anything.  

[HighlandTiger]

9 hours ago, Cornishfarmer said:

Im panda man, lot of people here like sovs but I don't see them as any better as money in the bank. They are easy to store and easy to sell but they are still worth spot + 1/2%.        Unless you go for the numi side.     Where as the pandas change every year and look back 10 years  and see when are worth spot + 10/20/30% .  Things may change now with the higher mintages

something else to think about

Just one thing I'd like to point out CF. Whilst you are correct in saying that Sovs are worth spot + a few percent. It is fairly easy to buy sovs also at spot + a few percent.  However, at one of the cheapest sellers in Europe STG,  the 2016 30g Panda is being sold at 63% OVER spot, and the 2015 is 138% over spot. 

Unfortunately, (and I may be in the minority here), I think the Panda bubble will eventually burst, (like all fads) and if you are holding Panda coins for 20+ years, I personally think you find that as an investment they may not be as great as you thought they were.

 

[Cornishfarmer]

32 minutes ago, HighlandTiger said:

Just one thing I'd like to point out CF. Whilst you are correct in saying that Sovs are worth spot + a few percent. It is fairly easy to buy sovs also at spot + a few percent.  However, at one of the cheapest sellers in Europe STG,  the 2016 30g Panda is being sold at 63% OVER spot, and the 2015 is 138% over spot. 

Unfortunately, (and I may be in the minority here), I think the Panda bubble will eventually burst, (like all fads) and if you are holding Panda coins for 20+ years, I personally think you find that as an investment they may not be as great as you thought they were.

 

I was talking about gold pandas that I didn't point out.   Was going through my stack this week. (Shocked me how much I've accumulated over 2 years)  got some nice 2012/13 quaters.   Bought at just over £200 now they are hard to find under £260.    I know the spot price has increased but that's not a bad rise.       BUT you have to find someone that is willing to pay whereas the sovs won't be such a big increase but you will have lots of buyers.

this is why should wait 6 weeks because you will change mind 20 times before you actually buy