Panda Lunar Monkey Series - Antique 99 mintage

[Guest]

I managed to negotiate a preorder at a great price for forum members. Because it was a very short time preorder only premium members got to see my post and then the pre-order expired.

The first videos are now starting to appear of the panda lunar monkey antique version. It looks amazing and the price is now already much higher than my initial pre-order.

Here is a video made by Sam A on YouTube

http://youtu.be/Gqhq_gaUQZo

I ordered two and they will arrive in a couple of weeks.

[Guest]

Some more pics..

 

[Danny-boy]

Surely that's just a flip coin, the panda looks very odd and the monkeys, well they just look silly.

Maybe the attraction is in the mintage figure?

[Guest]

I am not sure yet as I think this series and the lunar and panda combination works well. It's different and the 2015 sold out and the 2016 is near sell out. With 499 regular and 99 antique it doesn't take much worldwide interest to sell out and that will probably mean a slight mintage increase next year.

My take is that with 8,000,000 silver pandas and 200,000 lunars minted in China in 2016 low mintage medals are going to be highly sought after and ones that have great artwork or a great concept will succeed.

Gods of Wealth

The metric baby panda series

The Lohan deer rider

These are all desirable and collectible issues.

As for flips that's why I got 2 of each. I want at least one of each and I am sure there will be a good chance to sell a graded version of each sometime in the next 2 years.

[Guest]

Here is a short video about the gods of wealth medal in brass.

http://youtu.be/3WI-l2HEHrA

There were 100 sets minted and if you can ever find one its worth picking up.

[morezone]

It is a low mintage medal so the price will be high and will rise quickly as supply runs down.  I do have the standard one but I don't like how these guys have been pumping this series.  If a product is as good, popular and well received, there is no need for such self promotion.  I also have issues on how some of the coins received by buyers have been resealed which leads to the speculation of pre-screening for slabbing.

If this series takes off, expect higher initial premiums and higher mintages.  I've seen it several times with other coins where the price is manipulated since supply channels is very limited.

[Guest]

I think it's sometimes a fine line between pumping and selling. Pumping is more where large quantities are available and one is using sales and marketing tactics to raise the profile specifically in order to make a super profit when the dumping happens then prices deflate and the buyer is left with something worthless (tv sales of bullion Eagles)

These are high quality limited medals and cost lots to produce. I don't see any pumping and the key players in USA and Singapore are buying as much for their own collections as much as buying to resell on their own web site. They have an interest in the success of Panda Lunars but I don't see any pumping really just information.

As you say these will all be profit makers for early buyers at the very least.

[morezone]

If you check back to the Lunar Goat, you will see huge amounts of posts and pictures and promotion of the medals. However, it was never disclosed at the time that they were actually involved and had a personal interest in its success.

Pumping or selling? I don't know.

It is a high quality product and I will continue to buy them for now until it becomes unaffordable.

[sovereignsteve]

3 hours ago, Numistacker said:

 and ones that have great artwork or a great concept will succeed

The current monkey medal fails on both counts IMO but will probably succeed due to low mintage. I think most people will collect them for rarity value rather than actually liking them

[Guest]

 and ones that have great artwork or a great concept will succeed

The current monkey medal fails on both counts IMO but will probably succeed due to low mintage. I think most people will collect them for rarity value rather than actually liking them

I like them )) not as much as I like the baby Panda but I do like them.

[Guest]

If you check back to the Lunar Goat, you will see huge amounts of posts and pictures and promotion of the medals. However, it was never disclosed at the time that they were actually involved and had a personal interest in its success.

Pumping or selling? I don't know.

It is a high quality product and I will continue to buy them for now until it becomes unaffordable.

I didn't read any of the posts on the goat but I do appreciate that it's a fine line and very difficult to get inertia as the big boys have a finely honed marketing machine. The real pumpers in my opinion are the government mints and large dealers like Apmex.

They manipulate markets and make false promises and create real artificial markets as they are one organization setting prices themselves.

In this situation prices are high because all the costs are amortized in a low production run covering design, engraving, testing, wastage, metals, minting, case, printing and marketing. With under 500 mintage (under 100 antiqued) there are a lot of costs and really the end product is not too insanely priced considering.

[morezone]

9 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

In this situation prices are high because all the costs are amortized in a low production run covering design, engraving, testing, wastage, metals, minting, case, printing and marketing. With under 500 mintage (under 100 antiqued) there are a lot of costs and really the end product is not too insanely priced considering.

The current price is about right.  Antique's initial offering was around US$320 and the standard was $190.  We'll see in a few years whether these prices will hold or whether they'll go up as well as the mintages.  I'm going to predict that the supply will be held back and initial prices will be higher and increase hugely as stocks reduce and that a large proportion will be held back for slabbing.  When this happens it'll be unaffordable for me much like the Classical Garden Series since most stock is now sent for grading by the handful of dealers.  I spoke to a dealer about this a while back and they told me that stocks are deliberately held back to create greater rarity and then they are trickle fed into the market at inflated prices.

[Guest]

I think that the best time to buy with these things is at launch. I like the Classical Garden series too but I prefer to buy reasonably and then grade.

I would not be surprised to see the antique monkeys sell for 600$ in the next year maybe more.

[Agpanda]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shenyang-Mint-2016-Lunar-monkey-panda-2oz-Silver-China-coin-Antique-Medal-/322041575064?hash=item4afb2c7698:g:BsoAAOSwh-1W5BLa

[motorbikez]

The best reason to buy these medals is if you like them, don't buy them to try & flip they are being pumped IMHO on SS by the sellers.

I have seen personally coins minted by enthusiasts or should I say commissioned by enthusiasts to sell on, initially they do well & then become near worthless or spot if made of silver.

 

The 1oz Ra coin mintage of 88 I think is an example, I have seen them make up to $250 AUD a couple of years ago last one I saw sold for less than $50 AUD no one is interested in them now.

Re the medals Numi is showing they are far better quality & may or may not develop a strong collector interest in the future, if you are a collector & like them that is the best reason to buy.

[Guest]

Good advice. Buy what you like and buy quality. I try to buy things that have some theme that is likely to be significant in some way. I also diversify and 60% of what I buy is 100+ years old as that proves a long term demand.

I find Chinese modern coinage fascinating and while I like and enjoy Pandas I also like variety and I think that it's important to balance things. I also buy what I think will be interesting to others on my YouTube channel too.

I think we do need to be careful about using the term pumping rather than selling. I do look into SS from time to time and I am pretty sure that most people know Barsenault and Andy Lee are connected to the issue in some way. They are also the force behind Chinesemedals.com. They do want to sell medals and they do grade with a view to selling though both have private collections and a big interest in coins collecting and stacking as well.

There is a tendency to introduce at a low price and then establish the market and see what the right level is. Levels can go up and down. Apmex and most dealers who create product like govmint and MCM do the same.

The only difference with the Royal Mint is prices are always high!! No possibility to buy at the bottom.

[HawkHybrid]

13 hours ago, Danny-boy said:

Surely that's just a flip coin, the panda looks very odd and the monkeys, well they just look silly.

Maybe the attraction is in the mintage figure?

 

I agree, I don't like the panda side as well.

I didn't know the panda naturally sits like that on the great wall?

I think it's more the case of a merger of two iconic figures, one

way or another. the perspective on the front wall looks wrong as

well. (looks like a mirrored reflection along the middle)

 

would you choose to impress a fellow collector with that without

disclosing it's mintage? 

quality will find a high price, a high price does not mean quality.

 

HH

[HelpingHands]

I quite like the Godzilla panda side.

[Kman]

I wasn't going to comment because there doesn't seem like any point in being negative, and also I don't know anything about these products but two words that put me right off..

medals & copper  

If it's not a PM and not a coin there's no way id be interested in paying any kind of premium for these things unless I really loved the designs. 

[Guest]

I wasn't going to comment because there doesn't seem like any point in being negative, and also I don't know anything about these products but two words that put me right off..

medals & copper  

If it's not a PM and not a coin there's no way id be interested in paying any kind of premium for these things unless I really loved the designs. 

These have two oz of silver not copper but it's not a pm play it's a collector thing

[Kman]

3 hours ago, Numistacker said:

These have two oz of silver not copper but it's not a pm play it's a collector thing

Oh I know, but you also posted some copper rounds

ps. I haven't been on youtube in ages, can't remember my login, but I looked through a lot of your youtube videos and I'm glad you have kept up making them because I thoroughly enjoyed watching, thanks. 

[ArthGoch]

14 hours ago, motorbikez said:

The best reason to buy these medals is if you like them, don't buy them to try & flip they are being pumped IMHO on SS by the sellers.

Exactly.

Besides the official state mint offerings, there is thriving independent industry in China producing some wonderful high quality medals. By the nature of the metal, brass IMHO is the best medium for these and enhances the details well beyond what silver is able to achieve

http://www.oyy888.com/ is a link to the Society of Chinese Medal Collectors and from what I can gather is both a marketing platform as well as quasi regulatory body in respect of designation of serial numbers for releases etc. as well as monitoring sales numbers. Page is available in Mandarin but google translate does a fair job 

Picked up this little feller last week. Also I have attached an applicable listing on taobao.com to Chinese medals and which gives an idea of what is available and the cost 

Will I see a profit on this medal and a number of other similar medals I have bought ? -probably not. But at the end of the day the quality and craftsmanship in these medals IMHO cannot be surpassed and I like them

https://acmcdtz.world.taobao.com/search.htm?spm=a312a.7700824.w1006-3601284087.14.6GIV3G&scid=643980629&scname=%BC%CD%C4%EE%CF%B5%C1%D0%B4%F3%CD%AD%D5%C2&checkedRange=true&queryType=cat

 

[Guest]

The best reason to buy these medals is if you like them, don't buy them to try & flip they are being pumped IMHO on SS by the sellers.

Exactly.

Besides the official state mint offerings, there is thriving independent industry in China producing some wonderful high quality medals. By the nature of the metal, brass IMHO is the best medium for these and enhances the details well beyond what silver is able to achieve

http://www.oyy888.com/ is a link to the Society of Chinese Medal Collectors and from what I can gather is both a marketing platform as well as quasi regulatory body in respect of designation of serial numbers for releases etc. as well as monitoring sales numbers. Page is available in Mandarin but google translate does a fair job 

Picked up this little feller last week. Also I have attached an applicable listing on taobao.com to Chinese medals and which gives an idea of what is available and the cost 

Will I see a profit on this medal and a number of other similar medals I have bought ? -probably not. But at the end of the day the quality and craftsmanship in these medals IMHO cannot be surpassed and I like them

https://acmcdtz.world.taobao.com/search.htm?spm=a312a.7700824.w1006-3601284087.14.6GIV3G&scid=643980629&scname=%BC%CD%C4%EE%CF%B5%C1%D0%B4%F3%CD%AD%D5%C2&checkedRange=true&queryType=cat

 

Great information thanks for that

[ArthGoch]

For those collecting/interested in the Classic Garden Series; the first coin for 2016 was released by the Shanghai Mint the end of last month 

The silver comes in three types, Antique/Matte, proof, and reverse proof.

Numbers would appear to be 399 for the matte and 500 each for the others. Brass is also available