Gold Sovereign's

[Pushingtin]

Real sovereigns = 22ct

 

Jeweller's copy = 19 ct /21ct / 22ct (depends on the coin)

 

The point is, you still getting a 21 or 22 ct gold coin - hence the reason it passes the fisch test - HOWEVER it is not a real sovereign.

 

So my point is the sovereign test on the fisch is not accurate. In my case my 21ct jewellers copy passed the test as a sovereign. In gold terms, not so much a problem as gold is gold but the point is what if I had paid top dollar with big premium for a rare date sovereign, having it pass the fisch test, hence thinking its real - when its actually a 21ct jewellers copy thats only worth the gold content!

[Danny-boy]

In which case, that Fisch stinks.

Pun intended.

[Richardski]

Gold up today after the USA figures.

 

If it holds above $1300 on Monday I think there could be more upside for a week or two. If not then it may come down to $1280 but frankly I dont think there is much downside.

 

Silver too will be important this coming week. If it holds above £12 or $20 then we may have reached the bottom and we could see it rise a little.

 

I'm still a little bearish for May - August but hey anything can happen before then.

 

One thing is for certain, if its at these levels by end of August, then I am selling all of my shares and putting it into gold and silver. I cant help feeling that 2015/16 will be landmark years for the precious metals.

[Pete]

Richardski - I really hope your "feeling" for next year turns out to fruition as a bit of upward movement is long overdue.

Not sure I would be going "all-in" on PMs though but everyone has their own risk profile.

 

I cannot predict the market anymore as I use teabags and not leaf tea these days.

[Richardski]

Richardski - I really hope your "feeling" for next year turns out to fruition as a bit of upward movement is long overdue.

Not sure I would be going "all-in" on PMs though but everyone has their own risk profile.

 

I cannot predict the market anymore as I use teabags and not leaf tea these days.

Lol I'm mainly a coffee drinker unfortunately - that's why i'm awake at night watching markets and charts.

 

I have slowly been divesting myself of shares from the beginning of the year. I cannot see current market levels as being legitimate based on earnings. (Though I may hold on to one or two recession proof stocks that have survived the test of time). 

 

I'm currently in the camp that believes the stock market bubble has been created as a result of quantitative easing. So whilst I think markets may still rise a little further, I'm selling on strength to get out for the time being.

 

I'm still OK with other asset classes so I wont be 'risking all' for precious metals, but if, as some commentators predict, that we have a "Bond Bubble, Property Bubble and Stock Market Bubble occurring all at the same time (which is indeed rare) then precious metals and cash will be my main holdings after The Summer of this year. Though I do think that property in the UK will continue to rise until the General Election in 2015.

 

When I was a Financial Adviser, I would always suggest diversification and no more than 10% in Precious Metals (usually 5%).  However, I do subscribe to the theory that markets have been manipulated, and I can foresee China buying Gold in huge quantities for many years to come (and possibly even increasing its rate of purchases) as it attempts to balance currency debt with precious metals (though this would be impossible to achieve totally, or they would own approximately 50% of the gold in existence).

 

My own forecast for gold this year is up to $1450/$1500 by December,  rising to $2000 by the end of next year and $2500 - $3,000 in 2016. After that I believe we could see $5000 gold by 2020  - will I be right? Who knows until we reach that time? But I'm basing my figures on at least one of the bubbles bursting before then, market manipulation becoming more transparent, and India lifting its excess tax on Gold purchases and allowing more institutions to import Gold.

 

As for Silver, I personally believe it can dip a little further or hold current prices but represents good value at these levels. I will purchase, for the long term - a) in case of monetary collapse and in case of future economic growth and greater demand for silver - either way its quite a good bet. I really don't see it rising to $100 unless gold hits $4000 but I can see it up and around $50 within 3 years if not sooner. Silver really is my 10  year play where I can see it above $100 and rising. 

 

Of course any financial meltdowns, wars or catastrophes will bring these timescales forward.

 

I've now tied my Sails to the Mast for Posterity.  

[Pete]

 

When I was a Financial Adviser, I would always suggest diversification and no more than 10% in Precious Metals (usually 5%).  ).

 

My own forecast for gold this year is up to $1450/$1500 by December,  rising to $2000 by the end of next year and $2500 - $3,000 in 2016. After that I believe we could see $5000 gold by 2020  - will I be right? Who knows until we reach that time? D

A useful guy to have on the forum !!

Just received these beauties today

[ChrisSilver]

Please don't stray too much off topic guys. This thread is supposed to be about gold sovereigns. Feel free to start a new thread topic if you see threads going in another direction.

And those gold nuggets are definitely not sovereigns, but they are nice. I am going to have to get a gold roo soon.

[Pete]

Please don't stray too much off topic guys. This thread is supposed to be about gold sovereigns. Feel free to start a new thread topic if you see threads going in another direction.

And those gold nuggets are definitely not sovereigns, but they are nice. I am going to have to get a gold roo soon.

Glad you mentioned getting off the headline topic.

I have noticed this happening elsewhere without intervention.

I had written a comment earlier but decided not to post it in case it upset the status quo.

Absolutely agree with you and hope everyone adheres to the subject relevance and not divert off the subject, however tempting that might be.

[Pete]

Sovereigns and half sovereigns are extremely popular and when gold dips many dealers find themselves short of supply due to heavy buying.

That often means a sneaky price increase under the radar.

 

A sovereign weighing say 8 grams contains 22/24 parts gold so 7.3 grams.

Take the London fix gold price each day and calculate the value of 7.3 g gold.

That is what your coin is worth by weight in gold.

When buying, a fair price is within 5% of this and a great price is 3% above fix.

Unless the coin is special or proof, shop around if paying over 5% unless you are fixated on a specific coin.

 

Don't forget there are double and quintuple sovereigns, the latter being 5 sovereigns worth i.e. 36.6 grams so well over a Troy ounce.

The £5 sovereign is a stunner and if you are lucky to have one of these in proof condition it is a show stopper.

 

When gold is trading low as it has been recently there are often bargains buying sovereign sets of 3 or 4 coins.

Taxfreegold lists all the sets so you can see mintages and the coins.

Useful if someone is offering a set without a description.

Sets are typically priced at or around spot plus 8-10% bought from the best dealers or substantially more ( 50%+ ) if you haven't done your research.

[Shamatti]

I'd love to find a big stash of silver coins at a car boot.

 

Ha ha - that 'only fools and horses' moment when you buy an old box and his has thousands of pounds of silver in it. One day, maybe! Till then keep dreaming. Must admit, I do love junk shops and fairs and boot sales etc. So much fun junk to trudge through.

[Danny-boy]

There will be a big find one day Sham.

[Pete]

Getting off-track for a sovereign post - as I have already been given a yellow card   

[Danny-boy]

Getting off-track for a sovereign post - as I have already been given a yellow card

Agreed.

[silversword]

Back on topic then - presumably sovereigns are still legal tender, why don't they have a face value?

[Ryan AC]

I think they do and it's 10 shillings/50p/half sovereign, £1/sovereign, £2/double sovereign, £5/quintuple sovereign if I remember right.

[silversword]

Nothing on this 2013 one unless I'm blind

 

   

 

Is it just taken as a given that 1 Sovereign = £1? Because the only distinction I see between the whole, half and larger coins is the size difference.

[Shamatti]

Back on topic then - presumably sovereigns are still legal tender, why don't they have a face value?

 

 

This is very true, and something I had not though about until now. They do have a 'face value' as people used to go out and spend them. They were/are legal tender. But you are right, it is not printed on the coin. Very odd. We need an expert in here to explain this to us! lol

Is it something to do with the break with th gold standard making it a primarily bullion coin?

 

Interesting!

[Danny-boy]

I think it used to be printed on the coin.

Apparently the bullion issue ones don't have a printed face value, but they are legal tender for the price of gold, whatever that be.

Just what I read.

[Pete]

On Aug 3 1816 new gold coinage of 10 shillings, 20 shillings, 40 shilling and five pounds were declared and became currency on July 1, 1817

This was the birth of the modern sovereign and half sovereigns.

It is interesting to note that the weight and fineness remains unchanged to present day.

 

At no time have sovereigns ever shown a face value unlike gold Britannias that are £100, £50, £25 and £10

[Shamatti]

I knew I had read this somewhere! Found it!

 

 

The sovereign was unique among coins in that it had no denomination, or currency value printed on the coin. Its value was tied to the pound Sterling, which was tied to the gold standard of £3/17s/10 1/2d for a standard ounce of gold. It contained one pound's (£1) worth of gold (20 shillings), or, 22 carat gold weighing 0.2354 troy oz, a fraction under 1/4 oz.

 

Source

 

So it was because the coin was tied to the gold standard. And they never therefore had the face value printed on them.

 

 

[Richardski]

Just to support Shamatti further, I have looked at the Royal Mint website and they quote the following:

 

"Following the defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo a great reform of the coinage was undertaken and gold was adopted as the ‘sole Standard Measure of Value’. At first it was intended to re-introduce the 21 shilling guinea but it was found that ‘a very general wish prevails among the Public in favour of a Coinage of Gold Pieces of the value of Twenty Shillings and Ten Shillings, in preference to Guineas, Half Guineas and Seven Shilling Pieces’. Hence a new gold 20 shilling coin was born and given the old name of Sovereign.

Almost half the weight and diameter of the original Sovereign, the new gold coin of 1817 more than matched its predecessor in the beauty of its design. The traditional heraldic reverse was abandoned in favour of a St George and the dragon of classic beauty by the Italian engraver Benedetto Pistrucci."

 

Interesting though that the 'first sovereign' was produced in 1489. 

[Danny-boy]

You learn something new every day.

Very interesting.

[silversword]

This is fascinating. Dammit, I'm getting the urge to buy some sovereigns now

[HelpingHands]

I think it used to be printed on the coin.

 

 

Maybe you've seen the design Gibraltar used on a pound coin and it stuck in your mind?

 

 

 

[Danny-boy]

Maybe you've seen the design Gibraltar used on a pound coin and it stuck in your mind?

gib £1.jpg

Possibly, or maybe I just dreamed it!!!

D