Hmmm..

[Paul]

if it is deemed not genuine to sell on as a legit sovereign - just send it for melt to HGM/chard/BBP/Lois Birmingham etc.

Call ahead of time sending/visiting, explaining circumstances of what has happened, whatever XFR assessment they go will still determine the gold fine content that will still be worth and go with that as your payment

Gold is still gold, when its in gloopy mess in the crucible at 2000+ degrees 

Take the small shortfall in £ and lesson learned

Invest in future instead on a tattoo warning 'I must never buy gold on eBay again'

[Roy]

You're right Paul.

I don't usually buy from eBay....but I think Arshi was on holiday at the time!

As I said, I'll carry the loss. I've enjoyed the lesson.

Roy

Ha!

I had both 1912 halves on the desk in front of me. I went to put them away and I must have mixed up the capsules. There was no way the coin was going to fit. I tried the other capsule and voila!

Not only had the cheeky beggar sent me an oversized coin, he'd sent it in an oversized capsule too! 

[Coincollector]

Hi, yes the thickness of mine is 0.99mm and weight exactly correct at 3.99 grams the detail is spot on, but width 0.3mm to wide. Also did not fit into a half sovereign lighthouse capsule. A Bullion company still offered to buy it as 22ct which is good enough for me. Was your coin in question a 1912 Sydney mint? 

[Roy]

Hi Coincollector,

Yes, a 1912 Sydney mint. Mine appears to be thicker than yours though (Steven!), and perhaps a little heavier.

The accuracy of my measurements could be questioned but they were consistent with the cash-4-gold johnnies.

I'm not competent enough to comment on quality but, compared to my other halves, I'd suggest it is a damn fine example. 

 

[Stu]

I purchased a half sov from a very popular dealer about a year ago. Think it is around the same mintage year. I have a 20 coin case which is fitted with lighthouse caps. The same thing, this half fits in the cap but only just and at an angle. I thought there was no danger of getting a fake from the dealer and put it down to a dodgy capsule. Has got me wondering now. Again not too worried if it's pretty much the same for bullion. My Stash is away at the moment so it will be some time before I can check it out.

Appears this may be more common than you would think.

[Coincollector]

Could it be that some half sovereigns minted in Sydney from these years were made slightly wider? 

[Roy]

Hi Stu, thanks.

I'd suggest that your coin may also be 19.6mm ...sounds like it failed the lighthouse test too?

This is why this forum is so valuable. I'm not worried either, but I wonder what is the common denominator...dealer, mint, year?

Alas, like the coin, the plot doth thicken.

[Roy]

Coin collector, I'm inclined to agree, but I cannot find any evidence.

But remember, you can't have it all. If it weighs 4g but measures 19.6mm, it can't be right.

It might be 4g of 22k gold, but it ain't a half sovereign.

 

[Stu]

The royal mint prides(ed) itself on producing the tightest specification in a coin that is the sovereign and half sovereign. I would doubt there was a problem with the tolerances but could be well wrong. Incidentally i am sure all my sovs are from the UK, no other mint marks amazingly given a have purchased a few lucky dips in my time. 

[Roy]

Must be the capsule then 

[Coincollector]

I agree with you Stu that royal mint have tolerances but they don't always stick to them. A sovereign by the royal mint standards should be 1.52mm in thickness but the royal mint made the 2013 sovereigns 1.65mm, and will fail the fisch test and probable fail on a sovereign scale. Also many proof sovereigns have a thickness far greater than 1.52mm some upto 1.7mm. As the border is raised on these coins, if measured from the centre of the coin the thickness would be less than 1.52mm, around the 1.4mm mark.

[HawkHybrid]

could it be the mixture used? 22ct gold only defines ~91%

gold. the other ~9% could be silver, copper etc. maybe

someone decided to use a cheaper less dense metal?

 

HH

[Coincollector]

2013 sovereign thickness is 1.69mm not 1.65mm as I previously mentioned.

 

http://blog.royalmint.com/new-bullion-options-from-the-royal-mint-the-home-of-uk-coins/

[goldbones]

7 hours ago, Coincollector said:

2013 sovereign thickness is 1.69mm not 1.65mm as I previously mentioned.

 

http://blog.royalmint.com/new-bullion-options-from-the-royal-mint-the-home-of-uk-coins/

I use a micrometer and check the center of the coin and not the edge, all sovereigns have a center thickness of around 1.44mm (George the V come in a tad higher though)the 2013 coins come in thinner in the center around 1.43 if you measure them where the date is they are 1.36mm while an older coin comes in at 1.41. Thats why i don't care about the edge it tells me nothing but the center of the coin is where 98% of the coin actually is.

[sovereignsteve]

Yes the GV portrait was in higher relief.

[sovereignsteve]

I think it's time this dealer or dealers were named. I see no problem with this; they should stand by what they sell, their reputation is in their hands. One function of a forum such as this is the pooling of genuine experiences and information about PM purchases and dealers. It's a bit like what the ebay feedback system was designed to be and once was.

[BaldyBob]

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

I think it's time this dealer or dealers were named

I agree, but think we should wait for Roy to approach them and see how the situation is handled.

[Roy]

7 hours ago, goldbones said:

I use a micrometer and check the center of the coin and not the edge

Yes goldbones, another essential tool I need to fetch from the box.

As to the other issue...well. it's a dilemma. If I contact the seller, in my world, he'll be a decent chap and offer me a full refund...all the time bemoaning his incompetent staff, failing eyesight and arthritic thumb. But he'll want the coin back. I don't want to return it.

Let's let this pass, it's between me and him anyway. I don't want to tarnish a guy's (100%) reputation without the chance of any defence and unless I contact him he'll never know.

I consider it a genuine mistake. I don't think there's any dishonesty involved, he's only guilty of not being very good at his job.

 

[sovereignsteve]

8 hours ago, Roy said:

Yes goldbones, another essential tool I need to fetch from the box.

As to the other issue...well. it's a dilemma. If I contact the seller, in my world, he'll be a decent chap and offer me a full refund...all the time bemoaning his incompetent staff, failing eyesight and arthritic thumb. But he'll want the coin back. I don't want to return it.

Let's let this pass, it's between me and him anyway. I don't want to tarnish a guy's (100%) reputation without the chance of any defence and unless I contact him he'll never know.

I consider it a genuine mistake. I don't think there's any dishonesty involved, he's only guilty of not being very good at his job.

 

It's obviously your choice and as you say, between you and him. However, your own words sum up his likely motives in my eyes:

"Not only had the cheeky beggar sent me an oversized coin, he'd sent it in an oversized capsule too!"

That doesn't suggest the actions of someone who made a genuine mistake.

[silverin]

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

It's obviously your choice and as you say, between you and him. However, your own words sum up his likely motives in my eyes:

"Not only had the cheeky beggar sent me an oversized coin, he'd sent it in an oversized capsule too!"

That doesn't suggest the actions of someone who made a genuine mistake.

I would leave a negative, no question.

[Coincollector]

Another one

https://gold-forum.kitco.com/showthread.php?94756-1912-Sydney-1-2-Sovereign-fake

 

[ApisMellifera]

On ‎15‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 15:16, morezone said:

I remember seeing some plastic ones a while back but can't seem to find them any more.  I did have them on my watch list at one point as they would have come in handy for times when you stumble upon a coin unexpectedly.

This one?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1oz-Silver-Eagle-Maple-Leaf-Gold-half-Soveren-Silver-Britannia-Coin-Testing-kit/231836850286?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140328180637%26meid%3Da2ad02e7691e473bb7a7141923881b79%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D322004431415

 

EDIT: Oops old post...  saw that you already found it!  doh

[Coincollector]

Hi guys, 1915 Sydney half sovereign. Bought it from the public, I new the measurements were out when I purchased it but wanted to buy it mainly to see people's thoughts. As discussed earlier there have been other Sydney half sovereigns from 1912-1916 coming in a bit to large in size. The weight of this one is spot on at 3.99 grams. 

19.64 diameter

1.18 width.

the border is very high and the centre of the coin is far below the border coming in at around 0.8mm.

will be good to know your thoughts?

p.s. Marks at the top of second photo are just dirt.

 

 

[Roy]

Snap!  For the sake of consistency, same vernier caliper.