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Fractional gold....coins or bars??


Bigchilli

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Plan was too build stack as close to spot as possible then sell in one go when spot is at up 

Really don't want to be selling individually here or on eBay etc

Definitely going to get more sovs not overly keen on them but low premiums and extremely liquid they seem to be the smartest choice

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For bars if youre worried on security (in assay card) get sunshine mint 10g, it has a security hologram built into the metal which can only be seen with a decoder lense (turn it one way to see valid and turn it the other to see a logo)

 

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If you're going to be stacking and selling in one go to a dealer, then sovereigns are your best bet (or 1oz Brits).  Wouldn't make any sense to pay additional premiums and if your stack is large enough at the time, CGT would play a part and sovereigns/Brits would be exempt.

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25 minutes ago, Bigchilli said:

Plan was too build stack as close to spot as possible then sell in one go when spot is at up

Really don't want to be selling individually here or on eBay etc

Definitely going to get more sovs not overly keen on them but low premiums and extremely liquid they seem to be the smartest choice

Sovereigns definitely best bet. As well as advantages with CGT etc, if you buy bullion close to spot, you still have the possibility of receiving collectable grade and rarer coins which you can sell for a premium.

Profile picture with thanks to Carl Vernon

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Sovs are the best way to go if you are a Brit in the brit and looking for bullion at decent prices that can be liquidated easily.

 

Has George just goosed sovs and brits ? Or are they going to change the rules later on down the road. Either way, if you owe CGT, you'd better make sure and cough it up quick going forward.

Osbourne says in his speech just now he will have the most advanced digital tax system up and running by the end of this parliament. That means you'd better pay up your CGT quick or they will know quick.

Osborne turns to tax avoidance measures. The government will build one of the most digitally advanced tax systems in the world.

Everyone will have digital tax accounts by the end of this parliament, he says.

And that means capital gains tax will have to be paid quickly.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/nov/25/spending-review-george-osborne-autumn-statement-

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Everyone will have digital tax accounts by the end of this parliament

If it is anything like the numerous IT projects rolled out by the Government over the last 20 years I think we can sleep relatively easy.

 

Currently stacking 1/4 oz (22ct) and Sovs.

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Even if this lot don't get it done, i think the next lot will. It's coming.

 

Anyway, sorry for going off track.

 

Sovs and Brit best bet for liquidity and CGT free. If not in the CGT zone, then above comments re bars are good too.

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Capital Gains Tax or CGT is a tax on the gain or profit you make when you sell anything, give away or otherwise dispose of something and probably wont even apply the vast majority here

It applies to assets that you own, such as bullion, shares or property.

There's a tax-free allowance and some additional reliefs that may reduce your Capital Gains Tax bill. Most bullion investors will never have to pay this tax due to the size and value of their investment however, it is important that investors know where they stand.

 

Capital Gains Tax is only payable if an investor realises over £11,000 of profit in one financial year. Be mindful that the £11,000 limit is not the total value of selling your bullion, but purely the profit made from your original outlay.

A good few here are stacking for retirement to supplement state pension, state pension this year is £151 per week / £654 per mont / £7852 per annum, roughly 70% of what the current CGT threshold is.  If this holds true in years to come, state pension + company/private pension + CGT limit sold each tax year it should be of little or no worry to vast majority

Below that of capital For example, if an investor brought some gold in 2013 for £30,000 and sold it in 2014 for £41,000, no Capital Gains Tax would be due as only the £11,000 profit made is taken into consideration. However, this single transaction would constitute the investors full tax free allowance for the year and any other profit made would be taxable at a rate between 18-28%.

Please note the tax free limit of £11,000 is only set for the financial year of 2013-2014 and is reviewed every year.

Many investors choose to invest in smaller unit gold coins or smaller bars in order to pay no CGT, or as little CGT as possible when selling. This can be avoided or minimised by part selling bullion over more than one financial year.

For example, if an investor brought £60,000 of gold coins in 2012 which later in 2014 were worth £80,000, instead of realising the full £20,000 profit right away, the investor could sell half the coins in 2014 for a £11,000 tax free profit and sell the remaining gold coins in another financial year.

However, please be aware and take into consideration the gold price is constantly changing so the remaining gold coins could be worth less (or more) within another financial year. This is a problem that is unlikely to be an issue when realising the value of silver due to the substantially lower unit prices associated with silver bars and coins.

Despite British gold coins attracting a slightly higher premium than krugerrands, it is advised most UK investors buy gold sovereigns and half sovereigns for smaller units, and gold Britannia coins for larger 1 oz units. Both British gold coins are Capital Gains Tax exempt and offer the ultimate flexibility for investors.

With wealthy gold investors in mind, anyone planning on spending a substantial amount of money on gold should look no further than sovereigns and the gold Britannia coin. To help highlight the potential benefits of buying British gold coins, a gold investment of £50,000 in September 2007 would be worth over £150,000 in November 2011. If this gold investment was made in any way other than British gold coins the gain would be liable to Capital Gains Tax.

Therefore the tax saving to a CGT paying individual looking to realise this investment would be up to £28,000. Obviously if the gold price continued to increase and the investor chose to hold on to their gold the tax savings could be even greater.

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CGT exemption can work against you though, for instance you cannot offset losses against gains somewhere else, so if you're very wealthy and have fingers in all pies and your sovereigns go down in price you cannot use that loss to offset CGT on some shares or property, and vice versa.

So it depends on who you are, what position you are in and how you're invested.

So example

Person A Bought £100k of sovereigns in 2011 at the peak (£290 each x344) There coins are now worth £61k this person has other assets that made gains but they pay taxes on those as normal should they sell.

Person B bought £100k of krugarrands at the same peak and about the same loss but they have a tax deduction of £39k to write off against their real estate property gains

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You make a good point @goldbones I think anyone who is worried about the implications of CGT would have little to worry about as they would have a well paid accountant & IFA in tow to advise of the best strategy to minimse any possible tax.  Ask your local MP to recommend a good one during his next local surgery 

As most of us here are the 'great unwashed' joey public CGT is of little to no worry for us

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Good man, I still the prefer the HGM lottery to Akko's though. Also to make the most of postage, aim to buy at least a half oz at a time through HGM, Bairds, or any other dealer who doesn't do the inclusive postage scam.

Currently stacking 1/4 oz (22ct) and Sovs.

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What's hgm lottery?when they send a random coin?

Every time I've been on there site they never seem to have anything in stock

That's right. Just a random coin.

Their premium is so low that they turn stuff around very quickly. Sometimes things can go within minute or 2. When they buy a lot in on a single day then stuff can stick around a little longer.

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19 minutes ago, Bigchilli said:

What's hgm lottery?when they send a random coin?

Every time I've been on there site they never seem to have anything in stock

They haven't been getting as much stock in recently, certainly sovereigns, and what does dribble in gets sold pretty quickly. I think ther'e more people either with an app to monitor changes in stock or just keep looking. Lower gold price seems to mean fewer sellers and more buyers at HGM!

Profile picture with thanks to Carl Vernon

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59 minutes ago, Bigchilli said:

They dont take card payments either,bit of a pain

 

True, but a Bank transfer takes me no longer than filling in an online card payment.

I have been a satisfied customer of Atkinsons in the past, but I am all about keeping my £ per oz low, and excessive postage on fractions of an oz kills it for me.

Currently stacking 1/4 oz (22ct) and Sovs.

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Unfortunately I can't really afford to buy more than around a sovereign at a time.  Well I could but then sonething else I've been looking for would come up within the next week and I would just keep buying so I limit myself.

Yes, I'd be better just buying an oz and then not buying again for a month or so but when I see something different that  I don't own and say I'll wait and buy it later when I have built up my self imposed spending limit/allowance it always goes out of stock.

So I end up paying delivery on small orders from HGM, Bairds or the even more expensive coininvest far too often..

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 15 November 2015 at 20:11, Bigchilli said:

Just hard to see myself spending ££££'s on something I'm not overly keen on

 

Interesting. I view it differently.

 

I am looking for the most metal for my money, especially as I don't have it on display. Don't even get to look at it often where its stored. Plus, I am buying bullion as a store of value so that, if I need that value in future I could sell the coins and bars. 

 

Thus, I don't want something that's 'painful' to sell because I've fallen in love with it. If I have to sell it, I want something that gives me the most money I can get back, not heartache.

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