Negative Interest rates and the ban on cash

[Paul]

32 minutes ago, Pipers said:

Its amazing what foresight George Orwell had with 1984 and Animal Farm.        

Prophetic?  or coldly planned & implemented behind closed doors?

George Orwell's French teacher was Aldous Huxley who wrote "Brave New World", the novel on the dystopian 20th century

Contemporary society is now miraculously a combination of these two stories.

Both were Etonians, Orwell & Huxley

Just like the rank and file movers and shakers of high society today,

• David 'vote IN - I'm different' Cameron
• Boris 'vote OUT - I'm different' Johnson 
• Georgey 'keeper of the countries purse with my 2.1 modern history degree ' Osbourne,
• Natty Rothschild (family is the keeper of the most of the worlds wealth since the 1600s)

 

Business as usual, the vision was there back in the 30s and is now just getting implemented step by step

Marxist? Communist? Fascist? Socialist?  Neo-Liberalism?  I think society is a subtle combination hotch-potch of ALL these ideologies combined

 

 

[Pipers]

I have never read Brave new world, I think I will read it.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World

Your take on the hotch potch society, I have been thinking about it.  I myself disagree, I believe we in the west are run by an elite plus corporations and a few Governments, the nearest model would be Mussolini's Fascism, obviously without the racism but with enemies aplenty for the commoners to worry about.  I am not trying to have an argument its just my opinion, i hope we can all agree there is something very wrong going on! 

Paul I like your take on the politicians Cameron etc.    

[HighlandTiger]

9 hours ago, Paul said:

• Behind on your child support payments? automatically fined & deducted from your account

I would vote for any party that brings that rule in. Too many are getting away with it. way more than people realise. 

[SpainStacker]

1 hour ago, HighlandTiger said:

I would vote for any party that brings that rule in. Too many are getting away with it. way more than people realise. 

That's interesting. How many are getting away with it?

[sovereignsteve]

5 hours ago, Pipers said:

I have never read Brave new world, I think I will read it.  

Yes, read it while listening to Maiden, excellent stuff

[ApisMellifera]

Just noticed a new book launch at Housmans, thought you guys/gals might interested...   

http://www.housmans.com/events.php

‘George Orwell Now!’
presented by the Orwell Society and Richard Blair (Orwell’s son)
Wednesday 18th May, 7pm

George Orwell remains an iconic figure today - even though he died in 1950. His dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four depicts a Big Brother society in which the state intrudes into the most intimate details of people's lives - and, not surprisingly, it became a constant reference point after Edward Snowden's revelations.

The word ‘Orwellian’ is constantly in the media - used either as a pejorative adjective to evoke totalitarian terror or as a complimentary adjective to mean ‘displaying outspoken intellectual honesty’. Interest in Orwell's life and writings - globally - continues unabated. Beginning with a Preface by Richard Blair, Orwell's son, George Orwell Now!

 

[Oldun]

Pop quiz. Who was George Orwell's French Teacher at school (Eton College) ?

 

http://disinfo.com/2015/03/huxleys-letter-to-orwell-regarding-1984/

[HawkHybrid]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2016/02/29/warren-buffett-likes-stocks-despite-fears-over-negative-interest-rates/81029342/

 

I think buffetts recent investment choices are too politically

influenced. even buffett will consider withdrawing cash if

there is negative rates.

 

(I think the buffett indicator is reading stocks are overpriced

yet buffett himself claims stocks are still a buy?)

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/02/warren-buffett-i-might-consider-taking-money-out-of-banks-if-they-charge-for-deposits.html

 

HH

[Oldun]

Australia is done too by the looks of it...look for sob stories coming from them for the first time in a long time (in some youths' lifetimes in some cases)

http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/rba-cash-rate-heading-to-zero-leading-analyst-20160505-gon3hg.html

[HawkHybrid]

interesting how chinas debt since 2008 has been an increase

in the household and corporate debt. for europe and america

it's increase is in government debt. if things get ugly chinas

situation should be easier to deal with.

 

australia could be betting that mining will save them.

 

HH

[HawkHybrid]

http://uk.advfn.com/news/DJN/2016/article/71490330

 

more digital account attacks.

 

HH

[Paul]

1 hour ago, HawkHybrid said:

http://uk.advfn.com/news/DJN/2016/article/71490330

more digital account attacks.

HH

Do you think the calls/emails to the Fed were anything like this ?

 

[ApisMellifera]

20 minutes ago, Paul said:

Do you the calls/emails to the Fed were anything like this ?

Barclays just sold a London gold Vault to a Chinese/African joint venture, I guess the phone call probably went like that!
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/16/barclays-sell-london-bullion-vault-to-chinese-bank-gold
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/barclays-to-sell-2000-tonne-london-gold-vault-to-china-s-icbc-bank-a7032086.html
http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/05/16/barclays-to-sell-precious-metals-storage-to-icbc-standard-bank/

On that note, I have a Barclays account at the moment. I might have to switch soon and get some more PM , especially with their latest no deposit 100% mortgage offer. That is not a good sign I reckon. 

And... I also think that a ban on cash means that it will be harder (or impossible) for people to make any bank runs.

[Paul]

Yeah, expect more pigeons & more cousin Bensons in Barclays vault in years to come 

The only thing you should keep in a bank is an overdraft 

[MaxShiraz]

There's no such thing as a negative interest rate. If you're losing money it's a fee, a charge or a tax. Which is exactly the point. Bankrupt governments are looking for more and more ways to steal wealth from it's citizens. They are out of ideas.

WRT the original discussion of a "ban on cash", it comes down to two things

1. The government's wish to completely control its citizens (1984 style)

2. The desire to get more cash into circulation to kick start slow-growth economies

The most effective way to get more cash into the economy is a massive tax cut for individuals and business - we all have more money in out pockets and can actually spend some. But the problem for governments (of almost any country) is that they have massively over-spent and need to support obese budgets - so they are not about the required tax cuts.

So I guess we all need some real money, gold and silver.

[Bumble]

I agree. Negative nominal interest rates are in effect a wealth tax. Given that you can vault gold at a cost of approximately 4 basis points, any rate below -0.5% should result in everyone spending all their cash on gold and vaulting it. Or if you prefer, buy BTC and vault it for nothing. To prevent this, governments would have to follow up the negative interest rates with increasingly draconian measures to control what their citizens do with their money.

We're pretty much in a gully full of excrement with no means of locomotion. Maybe we should start a thread on where to emigrate to, or where to bunker down for the duration.

[whitesands1]

This guy was up in Edinburgh recently to advise the two new Finance Specialists appointed by the SNP at the Scottish Assembly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36432081

Great quote at the end, do we agree?

[KDave]

30 minutes ago, whitesands1 said:

Great quote at the end, do we agree?

Which quote? I liked "Unfortunately, the Bank of England can't use magic" - Have they not seen Carney using his crystal ball and casting the runes, basically what he has been doing for the past few years and still failing on the accuracy of his predictions. I suppose the result despite all of this failure, is what you could call real magic - simply by naming his prophecies 'forward guidance', Carney has fooled many people into thinking that he knows what he doing. Some powerful magic right there. 

[Scuzzle]

They call him Mark Carnage in Canada after the mess he made of their housing market.  I actually wonder if he will get to come and go without changing interest rates once.

[HawkHybrid]

http://uk.advfn.com/news/DJN/2016/article/71655336

 

' Mr. Thomas may have solved part of the puzzle of low investment, but not the entire puzzle'

it's crazy when an economist from an equity giant makes up

new theories and can't see the blindingly obvious.

 

the answer is 'zero rates don't work and will never work.'

 

zero rates are supposed to be a temporary measure for limiting

the collateral damage whilst a real fix is found. zero interest

rates will never form part of the fix.

 

HH

[Oldun]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36477979

[SoulUK]

2 hours ago, Oldun said:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36477979

Interesting, 1.2% annual charge (includes VAT) on them holding your gold.

And you’ll get hit with “usual” tax rates when you withdraw.

Going to do some maths this evening and see if it’s worth the effort, as you of course will get tax relief when buying the gold

[GoldenAtlantis]

On May 5, 2016 at 23:51, Paul said:

Prophetic?  or coldly planned & implemented behind closed doors?

George Orwell's French teacher was Aldous Huxley who wrote "Brave New World", the novel on the dystopian 20th century

Contemporary society is now miraculously a combination of these two stories.

Both were Etonians, Orwell & Huxley

Business as usual, the vision was there back in the 30s and is now just getting implemented step by step

Orwell worked for the BBC's propaganda department (in BBC's own words) from 1941-1943...

You couldn't make this stuff up could you?

Also, David Icke worked for the BBC.

Well I never, what a coincidence! Fancy that... 

[Oldun]

Oh the irony ! Banks may prefer stocking cash now ?

 

https://mishtalk.com/2016/06/08/negative-interest-rate-mutiny-in-germany-japan/

[ApisMellifera]

12 hours ago, Oldun said:

Oh the irony ! Banks may prefer stocking cash now ?

https://mishtalk.com/2016/06/08/negative-interest-rate-mutiny-in-germany-japan/

But then... the CB's could then just print/create a new currency if this 'hoarding' continues? (... and is that maybe part of their plan? )

On ‎08‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 15:16, SoulUK said:

Interesting, 1.2% annual charge (includes VAT) on them holding your gold.

And you’ll get hit with “usual” tax rates when you withdraw.

Going to do some maths this evening and see if it’s worth the effort, as you of course will get tax relief when buying the gold

Would you not just keep the gold in the vault and then sell what you need ? is that not possible?