Greece

[FriedrichVonHayek]

i dont understand this    if its a no vote   how does that change things  cos sureley the central banks and lagarde do as they want dont they   ...theyre lending the money  or not  as the case may be   so  the greek people say no   but the ecb and lagarde have the money they need ...i dont get it

The problem is that the ECB don't have any money,they just have a printing press.

The Greek people have done the right thing and voted NO.

[Scuzzle]

One official has just said ......there were no plans for an emergency meeting of euro zone finance ministers on Monday, adding the vote outcome meant the ministers "would not know what to discuss".

[AuFinger]

I think if you take the Greek IOU's per person it works out at around €30,000 each.

Where did all this money go ?

If you were asking your bank to lend you some cash to pay off your last VISA card surcharges and the bank wanted you to change you're spending habits, you disagreed, called your bank - blackmailing scum, would you expect them to help you out 48 hours later ?

Lender and lendee, the troika and Greek politicos, are both at fault.

But the Greek people are innocent and have a right not to have to suffer for the sins of a few.

[HawkHybrid]

I'm amazed, the greeks voting for what's best for

themselves represent democracy as I understand

it. I thought the vote would end up being yes which

will represent yet another win for the brainwashing.

(how else can the greeks vote to punish themselves

more for longer?)

 

HH

[HighlandTiger]

But the Greek people are innocent and have a right not to have to suffer for the sins of a few.

 

That made me laugh.   

 

I'd have more sympathy for them if tax avoidance wasn't a national pastime for practically every Greek adult. I think I paid more tax last year myself than the whole of the Athens population combined.

 

Every year nearly €30 billion goes uncollected, that is nearly €3,000 for every man, woman and child in Greece 

[Cointreau]

Kill the European Union. Kill it dead. Get the pitchforks out.

[HighlandTiger]

Greek finance minister is doing a national TV statement in a Tshirt....LOL

 

I don't get this "dressing down" that the current Greek politicians seem to favour. They'll be turning up to Brussels in shorts and a string vest next 

 

[SilverPirate]

That's because they've had the shirts off there backs already.

[KDave]

The Greeks will be voting again then looks like. Last time a Democratic vote went against the wishes of the European Union they made Ireland do it again until they got it right! 

[AuFinger]

That made me laugh.

I'd have more sympathy for them if tax avoidance wasn't a national pastime for practically every Greek adult. I think I paid more tax last year myself than the whole of the Athens population combined.

Every year nearly €30 billion goes uncollected, that is nearly €3,000 for every man, woman and child in Greece

Let's see how the media portrays common Spaniards and Italians when their unsustainable and unethically provided government debts catch up with them.

[Mic83]

A big enough lads holiday to Kavos and I reckon we could get them back in the black!

[craig12]

finance minister resigns 

[Pipers]

Putin rings the Greek PM, this I suppose is to put a kick in to the EU and also to reassure the Greeks that the money will be there if needed. 

[KDave]

Such a shame Yanis Varoufakis has resigned. He was the only man at the negotiating table who understood the economics behind this political farce. Apparently the EU representatives would no longer negotiate with him in the room. 

 

Because of this I am glad Putin has put pressure on the EU. The EU is throwing its weight around trying to hammer Greece into submission and need to be reminded what is at stake from their point of view here. Greece will be fine in the Euro, out of the Euro, borrowing from the EU or borrowing from Russia. The EU on the other hand will be very difficult to keep together once the template for leaving has been set. 

[Bumble]

The No vote won't mean much in practice. There will still be a fudge deal to keep Greece in the eurozone and the Greek people (and the EU taxpayers) will still suffer the conequences of all the unaffordable debt.

[Pipers]

An interesting read

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-06/piketty-germany-has-never-repaid-its-debts-it-has-no-standing-lecture-other-nations

[AuFinger]

Greeks voted for anti-austerity party.

They negoatiated with the Troika to trim the unservicable debt so they could avoid austerity.

Troika says no.

 

Greek government then tells the people they have to vote explicitly on this issue so it's clear where to negotiate from here.

 

They voted for a no payment.

 

 

 

The only outcome from this is that the debt will not be paid by Greek people. No meandering or restructuring will alter the reality of the situation.

 

 

Italy, Spain and France's governments will already be feeling under pressure from their electorate to trim their debt burden to the Troika.

 

THAT is the outcome no matter what happens now.

 

Even if Greece is steamrollered with some kind of military or political coup, and controlled directly from Germany, the people and the country simply cannot pay the debt unless the EU is happy to impose complete misery on one of it's members.

And that can't happen because that act itself would cause other struggling members to want to leave and cause a social/government breakdown.

 

 

 

The unwind will begin sooner than later. And at that time we'll wish we let the lot unwind in 07/08, because dragging things out another 8 years has just added to the pile of debt that has to unwind, at the average persons cost!

[Pipers]

I don't understand why Germany or the Greek people should pay these bad loans, they were made by investors who thought that Germany would pay them, they won't.  Investments come with risks, hard luck. Greece should walk away from the loans.       

 

Greece should look at Iceland and restructure the Greek economy they same way taking into account tourism.  I am positive they will get investment and it will be cheaper than trying to pay down this odious debt that was taken out not in the best interest of the Greek people but in the interest of the EU eurozone and the Greek politicians at the time.    

[AuFinger]

Too big to fail banks.

Privatise the profit, socialise the debt.

No risk for them pushing it too far, just big reward then when it pops government cronies make us plebs pay.

99.99% will be poorer because of all this, a very few will literally be laughing to the bank.

We'll all be victims in the same way the average Greek is. The reality of their stupendous government debt and insolvency has just reared its ugly head first, ish.

[thesoundman]

Have to say, I would be really interested to hear from any one in Greece who has PMs and is it helping them in regards to the situation.

 

i.e if you have a stash of gold or silver, have you been able to sell it and turn it into cash?

[HawkHybrid]

Have to say, I would be really interested to hear from any one in Greece who has PMs and is it helping them in regards to the situation.

 

i.e if you have a stash of gold or silver, have you been able to sell it and turn it into cash?

 

think in terms of pm's as an insurance, they have the

pm's to trade if things get to the point when they run

out of other options. I don't think many who owns pm's

have got to that point yet so it's probably too early to

tell.

 

HH

[HawkHybrid]

greek banks can run out of money by monday.

let's see who is willing to hold exposure by the

end of trading tomorrow.

 

HH

[Pete]

The Greeks have seen this coming and most have taken out their money.

The ones who have not paid their taxes have more than likely bought property in the UK and stashed their cash out of sight.

The über-rich have Swiss bank accounts.

 

The majority of the honest population however are totally screwed and no doubt the ECB will be providing humanitarian aid as things will get pretty grim.

This is a living example of how overspending and inefficient / corrupt government in the past can destroy lives.

Elect the wrong government, borrow more than you will ever afford to pay back and assume the "free lunch" shows what can happen and thankfully we did not elect the wrong government here.

[AuFinger]

Who'd sell pm for collapsing fiat any way?

And at significant recent lows?

PM are ideal to retain value and wealth, but trying to 'use' them during turbulent times is unwise, and thinking they'll be really useful in a global financial failure isn't ideal either.

Buy now and hold.

[KDave]

 

thankfully we did not elect the wrong government here.

 

Both Labour and the Conservatives have both borrowed like the best of them. The last 5 years saw more borrowing than the last 10 combined. The rhetoric pushed out about paying down the debt is a far cry from the truth im afraid. The only difference between Greece and the UK is that we are still eating our free lunch