Cleaning Bullion Silver Coins and Bars Instantly

[Danny-boy]

Are you a chemist FS?

[Fluttershy]

I have a long background in Chem yes, and my Lab is fully stocked, but my Main work is as an electronics design engineer for my own business

[Danny-boy]

I have a long background in Chem yes, and my Lab is fully stocked, but my Main work is as an electronics design engineer for my own business

Awesome, it may come in useful to have a chemist around.

[HighlandTiger]

Ah ha...flutters secret is out........

 

[Danny-boy]

[DrDime]

[Pete]

I just made a batch of this stuff in the Lab and I`m quite impressed!

I did a batch with the sulphuric acid and one using sulphamic acid, both seem to work well with the thiourea (and both mixtures smell a bit), but wow! does this stuff ever clean

even stuff that can`t be reached with my normal method (silver wadding) that has been there for years (like between chain links etc..), it was all back to brand new looking in 30 secs.

 

I guess a good thing is that using the sulphamic acid instead of the sulphuric is that being a powder you can make up what you need when you need it just by adding water, with no sulphuric acid laying around.

 

I wouldn`t put expensive coins in it unless there was a real good reason, but it`s great for things like already worn rings, bracelets, necklaces etc...

Glad to hear it cleaned as expected.

Where can you get the ingredients in the UK and how did you determine the formula ?

I tried to buy e-Z-Est in the USA but wasn't able to find in any stores, only eBay and Amazon - both USA sites.how

Edited - found the 2 main ingredients available on eBay and a material data sheet - see next reply I posted however I cannot decipher the chemical mix - what quantities are in the mix ? Is it as simple as 2 parts acid crystals, 5 parts thiourea ( could be carcogenic by the way ! )and the rest water ?

[Keithoil]

Just searched and found this!!!

 

http://mistralni.co.uk/products/sulphamic-acid

[Pete]

Speed-Dip-MSDS.pdf

EZest Speed Dip is the stuff we want - ridiculously cheap in the USA

Material data sheet would indicate a mix of sulphuric acid and thiourea.

Not sure if substituting sulphamic acid for sulphuric is okay but maybe ?

Sulphamic acid crystals and thiourea can be easily purchased on eBay

I just looked at Airtite's website and I put a 2 tubs of EZest in my basket with UK shipping.

Two tubs of cleaner for $7 plus $19 shipping but I am not convinced they would ship but who knows ?

Anyone succeeded in ordering from Amazon or elsewhere in the USA ?

[morezone]

Speed-Dip-MSDS.pdf

EZest Speed Dip is the stuff we want - ridiculously cheap in the USA

Material data sheet would indicate a mix of sulphuric acid and thiourea.

Not sure if substituting sulphamic acid for sulphuric is okay but maybe ?

Sulphamic acid crystals and thiourea can be easily purchased on eBay

I just looked at Airtite's website and I put a 2 tubs of EZest in my basket with UK shipping.

Two tubs of cleaner for $7 plus $19 shipping but I am not convinced they would ship but who knows ?

Anyone succeeded in ordering from Amazon or elsewhere in the USA ?

 

They won't ship outside of the USA

This item must ship via Parcel Post or UPS Ground and cannot be shipped out of the United States.

e*Z*est Coin Cleaner  Liquid tarnish remover for gold, silver, and copper coins. This is the preferred cleaning solution and "dip" of most coin collectors and dealers.  See our Test Results!

[Fluttershy]

yes, I did the 2:5 ratio (by mass) for both, although using sulphamic theres probably an optimum stoichometric mix but the 2:5 worked just fine anyway.

it seems that a product clled Tarn-X uses exactly these 2 chems along with a detergent as well, which is quite fully because I also added a drop of washing up liquid to the mix before i knew any of this

it`s the thiourea that does all the work really, it`s just happier when acidified and more effective, incidentaly, these 2 chems along with stanous chloride are exactly what I use for tin plating copper (electrodless) on my PCBs.

 

I wonder if silver plating could be done the same way, Hmmmm....

[Danny-boy]

It'd be interesting to see what this solution does to milk spots with just a dip and no rubbing.

[Pete]

It'd be interesting to see what this solution does to milk spots with just a dip and no rubbing.

I have seen this stuff take everything off a silver coin in under 5 seconds, restoring a milk spotted and a blackened coin to near mint condition without any rubbing or polishing.

Maybe Fluttershy can make a batch and we can order some ?

I am tempted to buy the two main ingredients and make my own solution but I don't have enough coins to clean to justify the cost.

[silversword]

I am tempted to buy the two main ingredients and make my own solution but I don't have enough coins to clean to justify the cost.

 

Ares has loads of filthy old US Dollars, I expect he'd be delighted to help 

[Ares]

As a matter of fact, none of mine are 'filthy, some are gloriously well preserved through circulation

I've got a dull one I'm not happy with.

[Danny-boy]

I've got a dull one I'm not happy with.

Clean it, clean it, clean it, clean it!!!

[Ares]

Mmmmmmnah

[Fluttershy]

I can`t help with the milkspot problem as non of my stack (all bars) have any, so someone brave will have to do that!

currently I have 10x chunks of 999 in sodium polysulfide soln to deleberately tarnish them and it feels wrong on so many levels LOL

but all my silver is clean and I had nothing left to experiment with, fortunately this is Lab silver and not from my stack, so losses for Science are to be expected.

 

Pete; I`d be happy to send you a couple of sachets of the sulphamic and thiourea to make up a batch to try. but don`t use anything special until this stuff is 100% tested, at the moment I don`t even know how stable it is once made up as a liquid, it could have a shelf life of 24 hours before it`s useless! thats one of the reasons I`m making some tarnished silver now, to test the batch I made yesterday.

 

it would be nice if this stuff or final formula based around it turns out to be not only cheap to make, but also UK friendly

[Pete]

I can`t help with the milkspot problem as non of my stack (all bars) have any, so someone brave will have to do that!

currently I have 10x chunks of 999 in sodium polysulfide soln to deleberately tarnish them and it feels wrong on so many levels LOL

but all my silver is clean and I had nothing left to experiment with, fortunately this is Lab silver and not from my stack, so losses for Science are to be expected.

 

Pete; I`d be happy to send you a couple of sachets of the sulphamic and thiourea to make up a batch to try. but don`t use anything special until this stuff is 100% tested, at the moment I don`t even know how stable it is once made up as a liquid, it could have a shelf life of 24 hours before it`s useless! thats one of the reasons I`m making some tarnished silver now, to test the batch I made yesterday.

 

it would be nice if this stuff or final formula based around it turns out to be not only cheap to make, but also UK friendly

Thanks - I might take up your offer later !

Sounds as if you have access to chemicals and the benefit of chemistry knowledge.

The jeweller's eZest is really cheap and sold on-line in the USA.

Perhaps air shipment is restricted due to it containing corrosive liquid.

There is no shelf-life on eZest but it is sulphuric acid with thiourea as the active ingredients.

A drop of detergent for lowering surface tension sounds a good idea.

I am surprised at how quickly the solution cleans silver on the assumption it is so dilute.

Good luck with your experimentation.

Would exposing silver to sulphur for a week in a plastic bag give you an accelerated toned sample ?

[Pete]

Just looked up Tarn-X and it does seem very similar.

There are as many warnings as praises and the usual doomsday stuff ( ever bothered to read the instructions setting up a new laptop that apply to residents of California about the lead content in the cables ? )

Surprisingly it is sold off the shelf in Walgreens pharmacy so may buy some on my forthcoming USA trip.

Need to check first if I could safely bring it on an aircraft - the acid content is so dilute.

[Fluttershy]

Would exposing silver to sulphur for a week in a plastic bag give you an accelerated toned sample ?

 

yes it would work, but as you say, it takes about a week to get results and longer if the sulpher has a higher purity.

I`m using sodium polysulphide and that takes about 30 secs to do the same thing, so no problem getting it tarnished

 

thus far I`v established that uping the acid ratio doesnt make it any faster, in fact it retards the action somewhat.

the acid or the thio alone doesn`t do a thing, and thirdly the stuff I made yesterday still works today.

I have noticed that fresh soln is water clear but with use it becomes turbid (probably molecular sulphur) may be a good indicator to replenish?

 

so far: 5g Thiourea, 2g sulphamic acid, and make up to 100ml with plain water is the winner

 

http://flutteryay.com/

[DrDime]

http://flutteryay.com/

Is she saying 'gold'?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Fluttershy]

no, just  "Yay"

 

 

I`v completed another set of experiments (probably the most important in my opinion), so see what Actually happens to the silver and the tarnish.

 

I made some powdered silver (cemented it out from silver nitrate) and split it into 2 groups, one group got converted to tarnish powder (using polysulphide) and the other left as is.

both were added to a large amount of this silver cleaner and left overnight, the regular silver didn`t get eaten away (I`m so pleased with this!) as it was a main concern as to whether it would damage existing untarnished silver, it seems not

 

my other concern is what does it do to the tarnish Really, wel I can tell you that it doesn`t "dissolve" it as all, it simply strips the sulphur away and returns the silver back again (I`m really pleased with this too!), so there won`t be any silver go "missing" into the cleaning soln at all by the looks of it

 

I was sort of worried that it might damage silver in some way so it was left overnight and there was no loss, there`s no silver lost in exhausted soln (like in photography for instance).

 

the actual Damage done to silver is at the Tarnishing stage where atoms os silver combine with the sulpher and some are moved around by this.

then to chemically remove just sulpher atoms again leaving the silver in place but moved, will make the surface clean and pure again but dull!

silver polish wadding (that`s what i use) will bring it back to a mirroe finish again though and much better than just the wadding alone.

I still wouldn`t put my best coins in it though (even if i had any) it`s probably best to just leave them tarnished.

 

this soln also gives a Much better result than the bicarb and alu foil method too (but just as smelly! LOL)

 

anyway, these are my findings, I hope they may be of use to someone, if only for educational purposes

 

now I`m going to get back to my Day Job.

[Agpanda]

Do you have a recipe to extract the pure silver from coins etc. that are cladded?

[Pete]

Wow - Fluttershy you are doing a great job !

Keep posting this great stuff.

Just to divert this topic for a second - if you wipe a mirrored surface, even very lightly, either gold or silver, you can generate very fine lines / scratches. I have done this on proofs that had stains or embedded fingermarks despite using cotton balls and avoiding rubbing.

These fine scratches show up under magnification and strong grazing incidence illumination.

Is there a method of delicate polishing that can eliminate these scratches that you know ?